Gunsgoodtime Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 I love special teams so I hope that rookie punter can boom the hell out of the ball . And consistently unlike Colton Schmidt who's leg seemed to die on him. Can the rookie run?!? Man moorman could fly for a punter I think Moorman was a sprinter as well before football. I know he did a lot of triathlon stuff. I remember him fumbling a number of plays and picking it up and running for a first down.
Buffalo716 Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 I think Moorman was a sprinter as well before football. I know he did a lot of triathlon stuff. I remember him fumbling a number of plays and picking it up and running for a first down. Yes he was a sprinter And it showed when he took off!
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 If you take 32 passing TD leaders, league average is 22.37 to TTs 17, well below average. That includes Moore and Barkley with only 8 and Keenum with 9. He needs to be a lot better, 7th year, no excuses anymore. OK....enough with the wierd math folks 2016 17 passing TDs SIX RUSHING TDS rushing TD's count as well right? Or do they not because they dont fit the agenda? Points are points sirs
JM2009 Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 OK....enough with the wierd math folks 2016 17 passing TDs SIX RUSHING TDS rushing TD's count as well right? Or do they not because they dont fit the agenda? Points are points sirs We have a poster who claims Cutler is better than TT because he has won a playoff game and has over 200 TDs. No mention of the fact that Cutler at this stage is not very good, no mention of TT rushing TDs, and no mention that Cutler was a starter for 11 years, TT only 2. The agenda is bizarre. By the way, the posters initials are MB in case you were interested.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 Show me 25 passing TD's and 5 rushing TDs and I'll be happy.
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 We have a poster who claims Cutler is better than TT because he has won a playoff game and has over 200 TDs. No mention of the fact that Cutler at this stage is not very good, no mention of TT rushing TDs, and no mention that Cutler was a starter for 11 years, TT only 2. The agenda is bizarre. By the way, the posters initials are MB in case you were interested. I mean.....the adding of passing and rushiing TD's goes along with the evalution of "great athlete...subpar passing qb" i think that at this point is very fair and the way he generates points supports that....the issue I take with is people pointing at the low passing TD numbers and hoping people will ignore his overall offensive production. Maybe the bills want their QB to throw more TDs? Its possible and we are gonna find out pretty soon.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 Show me 25 passing TD's and 5 rushing TDs and I'll be happy.I think that 30 would be a good (and realistic) number.
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 I think that 30 would be a good (and realistic) number. We are gonna have to throw more to get those numbers
JM2009 Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 I mean.....the adding of passing and rushiing TD's goes along with the evalution of "great athlete...subpar passing qb" i think that at this point is very fair and the way he generates points supports that....the issue I take with is people pointing at the low passing TD numbers and hoping people will ignore his overall offensive production. Maybe the bills want their QB to throw more TDs? Its possible and we are gonna find out pretty soon. Rushing TDs are part of his game. Scoring is scoring to me. I don't care how it's done.
Crusher Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 So after all these pages of discussion have we come to a consensus yet? The consensus is that there is none. I pray this discussion will be over after this season.
reddogblitz Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 (edited) Of course it is if you want to look at it that way. Again, I think its simple minded to only view one QB as average and 15 to 16 other QBs as below average. Actually, that is the median QB, not average. http://www.purplemath.com/modules/meanmode.htm Edited August 6, 2017 by reddogblitz
San-O Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 The consensus is that there is none. I pray this discussion will be over after this season. It will be: Bills have positioned themselves nicely with 2 1st round picks, and probably won't have to move up much to get a QB in 2018 draft.
BringBackOrton Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 Wow, 19th? That's actually higher than I thought it would be. Considering that the Bills as a team had at least 3 more rushing TDs than any other NFL team not located in Dallas even without Taylor's 6 rushing TDs, 19th for Taylor seems pretty okay. Why did you think it would be lower? My question for you is this: When most of Taylor's numbers were well above average in 2015 was that something you were able to agree to? Or was he only average then? IMO, that is the correct way to view QB rankings. In other words, it is very likely that an "average QB" is somewhere between a 12 and 20 ranking in whatever kind of statistical ranking one wants to use. Meaning a 12 ranked QB is really not any better than the 20th. This is somewhat subjective of course and the spread can grow more or less year to year. Yes.
GunnerBill Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 The real question which was worth debating instead of all this "is he average, a bit above average or a bit below average?" is does this offense suit him or not? I think that subject was a worthy debate because he is the only QB we have on the roster we can win games with. The question is whether this offense plays to his strengths or exposes his weaknesses?
Scott7975 Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 The real question which was worth debating instead of all this "is he average, a bit above average or a bit below average?" is does this offense suit him or not? I think that subject was a worthy debate because he is the only QB we have on the roster we can win games with. The question is whether this offense plays to his strengths or exposes his weaknesses? I cant wait until the season starts so we can find that out.
Big Gun Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 OK....enough with the wierd math folks 2016 17 passing TDs SIX RUSHING TDS rushing TD's count as well right? Or do they not because they dont fit the agenda? Points are points sirs I mean.....the adding of passing and rushiing TD's goes along with the evalution of "great athlete...subpar passing qb" i think that at this point is very fair and the way he generates points supports that....the issue I take with is people pointing at the low passing TD numbers and hoping people will ignore his overall offensive production. Maybe the bills want their QB to throw more TDs? Its possible and we are gonna find out pretty soon. Rushing TDs are part of his game. Scoring is scoring to me. I don't care how it's done. When talking TDs from QBs nobody ever says Jim Kelly had 34 TDs in 1991, or 244 for his career, or Tom Brady had 52 in 2007, or Aaron Rodgers had 44 last year, who knew Dan Marino had 9 rushing TDs or Peyton Manning had 18 or Brady has 17 in their careers. Only for Tyrod are his rushing TDs included in his everyday stats by the CoT because by themselves his passing TDs stats are so poor. Adding his rushing and passing TDs together gives the perception TT is better than he actually is, that's why it's done imo. Tyrod had 17 passing TDs in 15 games last year, and 10 games of 1 or 0 TDs passing, how can anybody anywhere be ok with that and think that is "good enough", it's not!
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 When talking TDs from QBs nobody ever says Jim Kelly had 34 TDs in 1991, or 244 for his career, or Tom Brady had 52 in 2007, or Aaron Rodgers had 44 last year, who knew Dan Marino had 9 rushing TDs or Peyton Manning had 18 or Brady has 17 in their careers. Only for Tyrod are his rushing TDs included in his everyday stats by the CoT because by themselves his passing TDs stats are so poor. Adding his rushing and passing TDs together gives the perception TT is better than he actually is, that's why it's done imo. Tyrod had 17 passing TDs in 15 games last year, and 10 games of 1 or 0 TDs passing, how can anybody anywhere be ok with that and think that is "good enough", it's not! The fact of the matter is there are poster's in this thread thowing out 17 passing td's last year and leaving out his rushing TDs....not one of you brought it up until I did. Tyrod is not your typical qb....he is more athlete then he is qb at this point (and who knows...maybe that is all he will ever be) But stop being that guy that hides the actual numbers to support his arguement....it makes you look bad
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 I think that 30 would be a good (and realistic) number. I did want to stretch it to 35 passing because he can run. We are gonna have to throw more to get those numbersBased on his reply to me yes. JM2009, on 05 Aug 2017 - 10:53 PM, said: Rushing TDs are part of his game. Scoring is scoring to me. I don't care how it's done. So why did you abandon TT after week 3 last season and not jump back on the wagon until week 6?
Kirby Jackson Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 The fact of the matter is there are poster's in this thread thowing out 17 passing td's last year and leaving out his rushing TDs....not one of you brought it up until I did. Tyrod is not your typical qb....he is more athlete then he is qb at this point (and who knows...maybe that is all he will ever be) But stop being that guy that hides the actual numbers to support his arguement....it makes you look bad It's like when people try to pretend that the 2015 opener doesn't count for him. They ran a trick play on 1st down and he took every other snap. We are all way too familiar with the numbers than to try to manipulate them to support one side of the debate. Let's look at the whole picture and determine if that's good enough. We don't need to try to pretend he's better or worse than he is by picking and choosing what to include. The reality is he's the Bills best QB by 8 miles. He's their most important player and has guided 2 good offenses. They've won more than they've lost when he's played. Tyrod needs to throw with more anticipation, get the ball to Sammy more and hit guys in stride. There is some good and some bad. If he improves in the areas that he's struggled with he will be here. If he doesn't, a 2018 first round QB will be under center next year. The question was originally about his fit in this offense. I personally think that the last offense was a better fit for him. They were too 10 DVOA in both years. His skill set was crucial to that. He was able to freeze defenders and open up opportunities for himself and McCoy. This offense doesn't feel like as good of a fit to me. Quick timing routes are good for guys like Bradford or Alex Smith. Tyrod's ideal offense should be a little more like Ben's. Ben keeps plays alive and punishes people down the field. He too takes a lot of sacks. Those guys are both at their best when a play breaks down. We are gonna have to throw more to get those numbersWe will certainly throw more. Tyrod has to get to 30 total TDs IMO if he is going to be a consideration for 2018. He's going to have to take a step.
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted August 6, 2017 Posted August 6, 2017 When talking TDs from QBs nobody ever says Jim Kelly had 34 TDs in 1991, or 244 for his career, or Tom Brady had 52 in 2007, or Aaron Rodgers had 44 last year, who knew Dan Marino had 9 rushing TDs or Peyton Manning had 18 or Brady has 17 in their careers. Only for Tyrod are his rushing TDs included in his everyday stats by the CoT because by themselves his passing TDs stats are so poor. Adding his rushing and passing TDs together gives the perception TT is better than he actually is, that's why it's done imo. Tyrod had 17 passing TDs in 15 games last year, and 10 games of 1 or 0 TDs passing, how can anybody anywhere be ok with that and think that is "good enough", it's not! Old School, with all due respect you really can't see the significance of taking into account rushing numbers for QBs like Newton and Taylor? Obviously without that aspect of their games they wouldn't be starting QBs. 17 or 18 rushing TDs over a 16 or 18 year career doesn't have much significance. But 17 or 18 rushing TDs over just 3 or 4 seasons has a huge significance. Same thing with 500-600 rushing yards on a season. Also, with Taylor I still maintain that we have to see what he does in year three before we truly no what we have or don't have with him. His 2015 season was very good. His 2016 season was below average. His 2017 season will be the tiebreaking season for him. Another very good season from him like his 2015 season could very well likely cement him as our QB for the 2018 season. Yeah 17 passing TDs in 15 games is pretty poor. But what about 20 passing TDs in 14 games? All this of course complicated still with Watkins missing significant time in both 2015 and 2016. We will certainly throw more. Tyrod has to get to 30 total TDs IMO if he is going to be a consideration for 2018. He's going to have to take a step. 30 total TDs should probably cement him as the starter for 2018. I think he gets real consideration around 26-27. At the same time I don't think I would be opposed to drafting a top QB prospect in the first round still and letting him sit for a couple years. Or just let the two duke it out in pre-season and see who wins the job. That's how Taylor won his starting job here to begin with. And other recent rookie QBs like Dak and Wilson showed similar early success and also won their jobs.
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