The Tyrod Taylor Question

[CommonCents]

 

I just put up the numbers I think absolutely keep him in Buffalo no matter what.

 

I'm not saying if/when he gets numbers lower than that we don't keep him, I'm just saying if he reaches those numbers, it's pretty much a lock he's not going anywhere.

So if he increases his productivity by 25 percent in the yardage department and his touchdowns by 33 percent then we will keep him. Awesome.

 

If Jordan Mills improves his play by similiar percentages he would be Tyron smith. Double awesome!

 

I'm really feeling Mike Glennon tonight, you can have total yards. So the bet would be both QBs have to start week 1, the winner has the most total yards at the end of the regular season. Naming rights. If either QB gets hurt or benched during the season that is tough luck and it doesn't change the terms of the bet.

 

I have Glennon going 3800-4200.

[transplantbillsfan]

So if he increases his productivity by 25 percent in the yardage department and his touchdowns by 33 percent then we will keep him. Awesome.

 

If Jordan Mills improves his play by similiar percentages he would be Tyron smith. Double awesome!

 

I'm really feeling Mike Glennon tonight, you can have total yards. So the bet would be both QBs have to start week 1, the winner has the most total yards at the end of the regular season. Naming rights. If either QB gets hurt or benched during the season that is tough luck and it doesn't change the terms of the bet.

 

I have Glennon going 3800-4200.

 

Love the snarkiness. Those aren't numbers he has to reach for the Bills to keep him. Those are just the numbers at which point I have absolutely no doubt we would keep him.

 

and...

 

Do you not like giving money to charity or something?

 

I already said I won't do naming rights. But if you want to do some amount of money towards your favorite charity, I'll take your total yards bet.

[CommonCents]

 

Love the snarkiness. Those aren't numbers he has to reach for the Bills to keep him. Those are just the numbers at which point I have absolutely no doubt we would keep him.

 

and...

 

Do you not like giving money to charity or something?

 

I already said I won't do naming rights. But if you want to do some amount of money towards your favorite charity, I'll take your total yards bet.

I'm not betting money on TT failing that would be a serious conflict of interests while I'm trying to cheer on the Bills. No amount of money is worth that. Changing names is harmless fun and something to look back at as the season goes on.

[John from Riverside]

 

This is the zombie talking point I find most hilarious. I'm not saying there isn't a modicum of truth to it, but since it became the go-to Taylor insult there's a lot of people who have "throw with anticipation" on their poor fevered brain. Here's what I advise for a cure : First, watch Taylor play and you'll see plenty of times where he does "throw with anticipation" - just like you'll see some of those middle throws invisible to so many. Second, watch other QBs play and you'll see plenty of throws exactly like Taylor's, anticipation or not. Heck, I recently watched Nathan Peterman's game this year against VT on youtube (he balled out that game), but kept looking for all those "throw with anticipation" passes. Because everyone knows NP "throws with anticipation", right?

 

So, after you tally all the times TT does, and all the times everyone else doesn't, you'll get a relatively small delta where Taylor can be more efficient. However by that point you'll be drained of all your "throw with anticipation" fever. You'll be cured!

I would say that throwing with anticipation is not a strength of Tyrod Taylor's

 

However....there is something getting missed in that arguement that Tyrod detractors dont want to talk about. Usually when a QB cannot throw with anticipation this results in incompletions or interceptions.

 

Nether of those things appear to be a problem with Tyrod Taylor....so why are defenses not all over this and putting him on the bench.

 

It is a question that has NEVER been quality answered every time I bring it up.

[transplantbillsfan]

I'm not betting money on TT failing that would be a serious conflict of interests while I'm trying to cheer on the Bills. No amount of money is worth that. Changing names is harmless fun and something to look back at as the season goes on.

 

Well, then no bet.

 

Sorry. Trying to find common ground. I figured a bet where the money goes to a good cause would be even better than "harmless fun" because it would result in helping a good cause of some sort, whichever one we both choose.

Edited August 4, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[GunnerBill]

I am always up for charity bets.... but not ones where I am on Mike Glennon. He sucks.

[Scott7975]

So if he increases his productivity by 25 percent in the yardage department and his touchdowns by 33 percent then we will keep him. Awesome.

 

If Jordan Mills improves his play by similiar percentages he would be Tyron smith. Double awesome!

 

I'm really feeling Mike Glennon tonight, you can have total yards. So the bet would be both QBs have to start week 1, the winner has the most total yards at the end of the regular season. Naming rights. If either QB gets hurt or benched during the season that is tough luck and it doesn't change the terms of the bet.

 

I have Glennon going 3800-4200.

 

Saying increasing production in the yardage department by 25% sounds like a lot. If Tyrod followed his trend and you calculate the math he would only need to complete about 4 or 5 more passes per game to hit that mark. Its not a lot.

I'm not betting money on TT failing that would be a serious conflict of interests while I'm trying to cheer on the Bills. No amount of money is worth that. Changing names is harmless fun and something to look back at as the season goes on.

 

Can you do signatures on this board? Perhaps do a signature line instead of name changing. Still just as fun and not as personal as selecting a forum name.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Scott7975

[Crusher]

I would say that throwing with anticipation is not a strength of Tyrod Taylor's

 

However....there is something getting missed in that arguement that Tyrod detractors dont want to talk about. Usually when a QB cannot throw with anticipation this results in incompletions or interceptions.

 

Nether of those things appear to be a problem with Tyrod Taylor....so why are defenses not all over this and putting him on the bench.

 

It is a question that has NEVER been quality answered every time I bring it up.

Easily explained.

 

He played in a simplistic offense that only required easy throws to open guys...mostly outside the hashes with the occasional deep ball mixed in. Roman and Lynn knew his weaknesses and masked them by not having him have to make those throws...that's why we have the low attempts to certain areas of the field.

 

Taylor's numbers have always been a product of an offense that was built on a dominant run game with low attempts that are simple and generally routine in nature. Other QB's have put up lesser numbers, but they are asked to do more within their offense.

 

Glad I could clear that up for ya

[Scott7975]

Easily explained.

 

He played in a simplistic offense that only required easy throws to open guys...mostly outside the hashes with the occasional deep ball mixed in. Roman and Lynn knew his weaknesses and masked them by not having him have to make those throws...that's why we have the low attempts to certain areas of the field.

 

Taylor's numbers have always been a product of an offense that was built on a dominant run game with low attempts that are simple and generally routine in nature. Other QB's have put up lesser numbers, but they are asked to do more within their offense.

 

Glad I could clear that up for ya

Outside the hashes is 48 yards of field. Inside the hashes is 17 yards of field a little less if you disclude the actual hashes. So you are saying Tyrod threw just fine to roughly 75% of the field.

 

And I am sorry but you make it sound like he was throwing 5 yard dump offs all game. Just because most passes were not "between the hashes" doesn't mean Tyrod didn't make difficult throws.

 

You also cant prove that the "simplistic" offense was because of Tyrod or because Roman knows jack crap about passing games.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Scott7975

[transplantbillsfan]

 

Can you do signatures on this board? Perhaps do a signature line instead of name changing. Still just as fun and not as personal as selecting a forum name.

 

I agree, if he really wants to do something without money, I'd be willing to do the signature thing.

[Crusher]

Outside the hashes is 48 yards of field. Inside the hashes is 17 yards of field a little less if you disclude the actual hashes. So you are saying Tyrod threw just fine to roughly 75% of the field.

 

And I am sorry but you make it sound like he was throwing 5 yard dump offs all game. Just because most passes were not "between the hashes" doesn't mean Tyrod didn't make difficult throws.

 

You also cant prove that the "simplistic" offense was because of Tyrod or because Roman knows jack crap about passing games.

I can't prove it, but the evidence strongly suggests that this is the case.

 

Go back to his college days, and you'll see he has always had the same issues. He doesn't read the field well, anticipate receivers well, and rarely attempts throws to the middle third of the field.

 

This and the comments made by Lynn all point to TT having struggles with some very fundamental things for a starting QB in the NFL. You can deny and make excuses till the cows come home, but this is what it more than likely is.

 

Definitive proof coming soon to a stadium near you...

[John from Riverside]

I can't prove it, but the evidence strongly suggests that this is the case.

 

Go back to his college days, and you'll see he has always had the same issues. He doesn't read the field well, anticipate receivers well, and rarely attempts throws to the middle third of the field.

 

This and the comments made by Lynn all point to TT having struggles with some very fundamental things for a starting QB in the NFL. You can deny and make excuses till the cows come home, but this is what it more than likely is.

 

Definitive proof coming soon to a stadium near you...

okkkkkkkaaaay then

[transplantbillsfan]

Does TT command and orchestrate the offense?

 

Does TT audible out of plays when he sees something favorable?

 

Does TT stay in the pocket and routinely wait for receivers to come open?

 

Does TT make multiple reads?

 

Does TT throw with anticipation?

 

Does TT use the entire field?

 

It sure seems to me like he doesn't check many of these boxes...at least often enough to make me think he's more of a passer that can run over a runner who can pass at times.

 

It is what it is, and I'm certainly not shying away from my statement.

 

Okay, I am just going to assume you intended to put the word "consistently" after "TT" in every one of those questions because obviously ​Taylor does every single one of those things to some degree during the year.

 

You just believe he needs to do all of them more, correct?

 

I'm assuming that's what you mean. If you think he never does those things there's just no sense talking to you.

 

But to each task,

 

I think Taylor commands and orchestrates the offense a lot more than you seem to think as he's specifically stated in post game PCs that in looking for something the D is giving he'll audible to different plays... from a pass to a run or a run to a pass. He's also the "ball-handler," so even when he has an option or a triple option with a run play, he's obviously the one commanding and orchestrating where the ball goes. I guess that touched on the first 2 questions.

 

Taylor needs to work on pocket presence. I agree. He could stay in the pocket longer, at times. Though as I've pointed out to you before, Taylor stays in the pocket with pressure closing in on him or coming straight at him fairly frequently. More than half of his TD passes came under pressure and for 80% of those TD passes, he remained in the pocket. Even when he leaves the pocket, he always has his eyes downfield and is always looking for open WRs. I think identifying and delivering to those (NFL) "open" WRs is what he needs to get better at.

 

Does he make multiple reads? Yes, he does. You just want him to do it "consistently," but I'd rather he makes the best pre-snap read possible and knows where he's going to the football when it's snapped. Listening to Greg Cosell the other day on the Colin Cowherd show, he was asked about Drew Brees and how age is affecting him and one thing he said that I thought was interesting was that Brees has continued to be able to play at such a high level because he knows where he's going with the football when the ball is snapped on the vast majority of plays. He does most of his reads pre-snap rather than post-snap. And I think that's what you'd rather have your QB do.

 

Taylor and throwing with anticipation is another one. Does he do it? Yes. You just want him to do it "consistently." One of the things people often tie this to is YAC because the belief is that Taylor isn't leading his guys to gain more yards. Except that (according to Cian Fahey) the average depth/distance of Taylor's throws was the 5th highest in the NFL. And he was still top 10 in accuracy %. When you're throwing downfield, those aren't passes designed to get YAC. Short passes and screens are those types of plays. And head-scratchingly Buffalo had like the fewest screen plays in the NFL in 2016, despite having Shady McCoy and Sammy Watkins.

 

Does TT use the entire field? Of course he does. I don't even know what you mean here.

[John from Riverside]

Easily explained.

 

He played in a simplistic offense that only required easy throws to open guys...mostly outside the hashes with the occasional deep ball mixed in. Roman and Lynn knew his weaknesses and masked them by not having him have to make those throws...that's why we have the low attempts to certain areas of the field.

 

Taylor's numbers have always been a product of an offense that was built on a dominant run game with low attempts that are simple and generally routine in nature. Other QB's have put up lesser numbers, but they are asked to do more within their offense.

 

Glad I could clear that up for ya

absolutely did not answer my question.

 

I asked that if Tyrod is so easy to defend....why have defenses not clamped down on him?

 

You didnt answer it because you cant answer it in a way that fits your agenda sir

[Crusher]

absolutely did not answer my question.

 

I asked that if Tyrod is so easy to defend....why have defenses not clamped down on him?

 

You didnt answer it because you cant answer it in a way that fits your agenda sir

They do clamp down on him. They dare him to beat them with his arm and he almost never does.

 

His physical talent allows him to make plays at times, but a consistent passer he is not.

[Scott7975]

I can't prove it, but the evidence strongly suggests that this is the case.

 

Go back to his college days, and you'll see he has always had the same issues. He doesn't read the field well, anticipate receivers well, and rarely attempts throws to the middle third of the field.

 

This and the comments made by Lynn all point to TT having struggles with some very fundamental things for a starting QB in the NFL. You can deny and make excuses till the cows come home, but this is what it more than likely is.

 

Definitive proof coming soon to a stadium near you...

 

It could very well be that the passing offense was designed as such because Taylor is limited. I wont dispute it simply because its possible. You claim it as fact, when as of yet it is not. Its also possible that Roman doesn't know a damn thing about passing offense and there is strong evidence that is the case.

 

You can go back to college days of most QBs nowadays and they will mostly all have those same problems. Most college offenses aren't geared to teach QBs how to be an NFL QB. They make it easy for them so they can win games.

 

I'm not making excuses for anything. Denying something? Maybe until there is proof otherwise. Go look up Romans offense. You will see it had the same problems here as in San Fran. You will also see that he has not designed nor ran a passing offense anywhere. Not even in college. He has always ran an offense by committee and did just the running offense. Our passing offense was designed by our QB coach and WR coach. Neither have been an offensive coordinator so... there is evidence to show that its possible they just didn't design a very good passing offense to begin with.

[transplantbillsfan]

I can't prove it, but the evidence strongly suggests that this is the case.

 

Go back to his college days, and you'll see he has always had the same issues. He doesn't read the field well, anticipate receivers well, and rarely attempts throws to the middle third of the field.

 

This and the comments made by Lynn all point to TT having struggles with some very fundamental things for a starting QB in the NFL. You can deny and make excuses till the cows come home, but this is what it more than likely is.

 

Definitive proof coming soon to a stadium near you...

 

Oh good gawd!!!

 

Thurm's gotten to you!!!

[transplantbillsfan]

They do clamp down on him. They dare him to beat them with his arm and he almost never does.

 

His physical talent allows him to make plays at times, but a consistent passer he is not.

 

I think John's point is that if this was right, defenses would always be doing this and Taylor wouldn't even be able to function on the football field.

 

If what you're saying is correct and defenses know that all they have to do is to dare him to beat them, they would always do it.

[Crusher]

 

I think John's point is that if this was right, defenses would always be doing this and Taylor wouldn't even be able to function on the football field.

 

If what you're saying is correct and defenses know that all they have to do is to dare him to beat them, they would always do it.

Physical talent can sometimes trump anything a defense can do.

 

Make no mistake...the key to beating the Bills so long as TT is QB will be to make him beat you with his arm.

[John from Riverside]

Physical talent can sometimes trump anything a defense can do.

 

Make no mistake...the key to beating the Bills so long as TT is QB will be to make him beat you with his arm.

Or force the defense to stop allowing touchdowns

They do clamp down on him. They dare him to beat them with his arm and he almost never does.

 

His physical talent allows him to make plays at times, but a consistent passer he is not.

Sorry...once again this doesnt answer the question.

 

If Tyrod was soooo limited....then the defense would load up against the run and take that away (any defense in the NFL can take one thing away from you no matter where they are ranked)

 

They would simply stop the run and force Tyrod to win the games......

 

So why were the bills 10th in scoring offense last year if it so easy?

 

Once again...you cant answer the question because the answer doesnt suit the crusade...the fact is that if defenses loaded up to stop our run Tyrod and his deep ball would probably kill them......it looked like last year teams were trying to take away Tyrod's deep ball.

Edited August 5, 2017 by John from Hemet