JM2009 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 Who were still open a lot. Of course, didn't think you would answer yes or no. And the offense was still top ten in scoring. Running game played a big part in that and the low turnover rate, which TT was a big part of both. Defense only had 18 turnovers and gave up an average of 33 points to playoff teams. the defense was the main problem in 2016. That is why the Ryans were fired. That, and poor game day coaching.
transplantbillsfan Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Yup, tons of NFL QBs were on the bench throughout almost all of their rookie contracts. But when those QBs got their chances, the ones who became franchise QBs became franchise-level guys in their first opportunity. Can't name a single guy who sat out for a long time at the beginning of his career, got his chance to start, didn't show franchise level QB ability early in his long-delayed chance to start and then did later. There really isn't a guy who's ever done that, with the one single exception of Rich Gannon. As you point out, many many guys were in a situation to possible make that kind of a leap after not playing much at all in their first three or four years. And out of those probably 50 - 100 guys, one has succeeded when he hadn't done so by the end of his sixth year. The odds against Tyrod are indeed very high. History shows it. See, what you can easily find or 50 to 100 guys who sat on the bench for most of the rookie contract like I said and then maybe got some kind of a chance to start after that. What does not happen is that those QBs end up winning starting jobs and then playing at starting QB level once they get their opportunity. Why are you including Gannon on this list? He started 14 games in his fourth year. So, basically, you apparently can't think of a single QB who meets the criteria that you actually said 50 or so QBs met. You say the odds are against him. Guess what, he already broke those odds. There isn't a single NFL QB (apparently, i'm relying partly on your own trustworthy mind) has done what Taylor has already done. And so your arbitrary rules don't really seem to apply here since those rules have already been broken. Taylor is already doing what "couldn't be done" so saying the odds are against him to keep it up, seems kind of weird. Edited July 30, 2017 by transplantbillsfan
Foxx Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Without Watkins, and Woods at times, the Bills had a bottom five WR corp. maybe the worst. no excuses this year, okay? he either improves with what is on the field or he doesn't. as to the OP, he needs to improve in just about every area. Edited July 30, 2017 by Foxx
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 Top 10 this top 10 that. What was the passing game rated? 7 wins is what we got. So much for stats. no excuses this year, okay? he either improves with what is on the field or he doesn't. he needs to improve in just about every area. I hardly believe the believers will stop making excuses. Well correction some did after the 3 game skid.
JM2009 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 no excuses this year, okay? he either improves with what is on the field or he doesn't. he needs to improve in just about every area. Only with a select few is having a terrible WR corp for too many games, a defense that couldn't stop the better teams nor get the ball back most of the time for an offense that didn't turn the ball over, and the Ryan brothers poor game day coaching, is that considered excuses. TT needs to improve his middle of the field play, but to say he needs to improve in just about every area is nonsense. With this "terrible" QB the last two seasons, the Bills offense has put up a lot of points. And he is a big reason for that, even though you will claim he isn't.
transplantbillsfan Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 Already answered this. In this thread. Post #165. To repeat, you said you had asked me for ten guys according to some criteria. Didn't see that before and don't really care what criteria you asked for. I'm only interested in the criteria I've been addressing all along on this issue. I've said all along that Gannon's pretty much it for guys who hadn't shown themselves to be franchise guys by the time they had six years in the league and then did so later. Several times people have complained that that wasn't fair because Tyrod didn't play significant snaps his first four years. And I always pointed out that there are many people who also didn't play much in their first three or four years and then had a shot at starting jobs. And what happened is what you'd expect, that of all those many guys, the ones who succeeded, guys like Danny White for one and Aaron Rodgers, succeeded pretty quickly when given their chance. Unlike Tyrod, they became franchise guys before going into their seventh year. With again, the one exception of Rich Gannon. To quote myself from earlier in this thread: Ten? That's what, fourteen? Took me less than ten minutes to come up with that group. There have been tons of guys in Tyrod's position, guys who didn't have experience for three or four years and then got their chance to start. Problem is that nearly all of them aren't good enough. And the ones who are have shown it pretty much immediately. Again, of all guys who hadn't proven themselves through six years as franchise guys, almost none have later improved enough to become franchise guys. That's the likely result with Tyrod. So, you really just don't want to address the point? I'm really interested and legitimate discussion here. You were the one that told me 50 guys met the criteria that I sent forth. You said that. And that's the criteria that you're now saying you don't care about? If you really just don't want to discuss because you're incapable of ever being wrong and admitting it, that's fine. I was legitimately intrigued and kind of hoping you could actually find 10 guys out of your list of 50 Who met the criteria that I gave you and you said at least 50 guys easily made it. Some real communication issues here. I certainly can't say I'm guilt free, but it's hard to talk to someone seriously about an issue when they're on the other side of the road searching for keys under the streetlight while you're sitting in their running car because they told you to go unlock and start the car while you paid the bill. Such a shame...
Foxx Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Only with a select few is having a terrible WR corp for too many games, a defense that couldn't stop the better teams nor get the ball back most of the time for an offense that didn't turn the ball over, and the Ryan brothers poor game day coaching, is that considered excuses. TT needs to improve his middle of the field play, but to say he needs to improve in just about every area is nonsense. With this "terrible" QB the last two seasons, the Bills offense has put up a lot of points. And he is a big reason for that, even though you will claim he isn't. so... more excuses will be okay for Tyrod after year three in the books? just looking for clarification here. Edited July 30, 2017 by Foxx
JM2009 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 so... more excuses will be okay for Tyrod after year three in the books? just looking for clarification here. You read my post. If you think those are excuses than there is nothing left to say.You won't be happy till he is out the door.
mannc Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 I'm sorry dude but it's not all that specific. TONS of NFL QBs were on the bench throughout almost all of their rookie contracts. It's the next 2 criteria that separates Taylor. I know you aren't seeing it, but you might want to reconsider the notion that Taylor can't improve just because of years of service FWIW, Eli Manning, to use just one example, made a quantum leap in his sixth year as an NFL starter.
bigduke6 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Only with a select few is having a terrible WR corp for too many games, a defense that couldn't stop the better teams nor get the ball back most of the time for an offense that didn't turn the ball over, and the Ryan brothers poor game day coaching, is that considered excuses. TT needs to improve his middle of the field play, but to say he needs to improve in just about every area is nonsense. With this "terrible" QB the last two seasons, the Bills offense has put up a lot of points. And he is a big reason for that, even though you will claim he isn't. 17 tds, 6 ints, 6 rushing tds. 3k yrds. pedestrian numbers. 22nd ranked QB in power ratings. u claim this high scoring Bills offense, your QB is sub 20 passing tds......cmon. 23 tds responsible for isnt a playoff QB. little over 1 per game isnt winning anything. and u cant argue that he helps McCoys numbers in the running game when defenses stack 8 in the box knowing that your QB isnt a passing threat.... Tyrod having to complete passes over 5yrds on 3rd down last season absolutely killed this offense. meanwhile a defense that admittedly was subpar couldnt ever get off the field, and when they finally did, got put right back on. Did u watch all the games where Tyrod failed repeatedly on 3rd down? was mbe 1 where he didnt. Edited July 30, 2017 by bigduke6
Figster Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 so... more excuses will be okay for Tyrod after year three in the books? just looking for clarification here. since when did the normal learning curve for a starting QB operating under 3 different OC's in 3 seasons get tossed out the window. just looking for clarification here
mannc Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 and u cant argue that he helps McCoys numbers in the running game when defenses stack 8 in the box knowing that your QB isnt a passing threat.... Wait, are you saying that teams regularly stacked 8 in the box to prevent the Bills' from running the ball last year? I'm not aware of any stats that would support that and if defenses did stack the box more than usual against the Bills, then the strategy clearly did not work.
JM2009 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 17 tds, 6 ints, 6 rushing tds. 3k yrds. pedestrian numbers. 22nd ranked QB in power ratings. u claim this high scoring Bills offense, your QB is sub 20 passing tds......cmon. 23 tds responsible for isnt a playoff QB. little over 1 per game isnt winning anything. and u cant argue that he helps McCoys numbers in the running game when defenses stack 8 in the box knowing that your QB isnt a passing threat.... Tyrod having to complete passes over 5yrds on 3rd down last season absolutely killed this offense. meanwhile a defense that admittedly was subpar couldnt ever get off the field, and when they finally did, got put right back on. Did u watch all the games where Tyrod failed repeatedly on 3rd down? was mbe 1 where he didnt. The offense finished 12th and tenth in scoring the last two seasons. The Bills had the fewest pass attempts in 2016. TT plays a big role in why the running game works so well.And he doesn't turn the ball over. http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/07/07/west-coast-offense-tyrod-taylor-buffalo-bills/ "Some of Taylor’s struggles can be attributed to injuries suffered to Buffalo’s key skill players, though. In the 15 games that LeSean McCoy, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods and Charles Clay all played in, Taylor completed 64-percent of his passes for 3,362 yards, throwing 26 touchdowns and six interceptions. In the 14 games without either one of those players, those numbers dropped to a 61.2-percent completion rate, 2,697 passing yards with just 11 touchdowns and six interceptions."
GunnerBill Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 This has been an ongoing discussion with several of the draft savvy folks on this board dating back to our strategy for this past draft. Gunner, the one I was responding to, thought we should draft a QB this past draft. I could be wrong, but I'd imagine that if GB was running the Bills we would have taken Watson at 10. I, on the other hand, have said that we would bring in a veteran presence behind Tyrod this year, and then we would go in on a QB high next year. I was a bigger fan of next year's QB crop than this year's. I would have you are correct. But because I had a good grade on Watson. I wouldn't, for example, have taken Mahomes at 10. It wasn't an anyone but Tyrod thing for me and it still isn't. But if Tyrod is the same next year as he has been and the class is genuinely good then the Bills should use their 1st on a QB. Trade up or no trade up.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 The offense finished 12th and tenth in scoring the last two seasons. The Bills had the fewest pass attempts in 2016. TT plays a big role in why the running game works so well.And he doesn't turn the ball over. http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/07/07/west-coast-offense-tyrod-taylor-buffalo-bills/ "Some of Taylor’s struggles can be attributed to injuries suffered to Buffalo’s key skill players, though. In the 15 games that LeSean McCoy, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods and Charles Clay all played in, Taylor completed 64-percent of his passes for 3,362 yards, throwing 26 touchdowns and six interceptions. In the 14 games without either one of those players, those numbers dropped to a 61.2-percent completion rate, 2,697 passing yards with just 11 touchdowns and six interceptions." ...can we logically talk about the "W" column for a moment and the results of these stats?............
Figster Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 The offense finished 12th and tenth in scoring the last two seasons. The Bills had the fewest pass attempts in 2016. TT plays a big role in why the running game works so well.And he doesn't turn the ball over. http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/07/07/west-coast-offense-tyrod-taylor-buffalo-bills/ It was a sophisticated G Roman run game to manage that gets taken for granted by some in my humble opinion JM. Taylor managed and participated in the best rushing O in the league. At over 5 yards an attempt that displays Buffalo's ability to play smash mouth football any help at all from the D gets the Bills into the playoffs IMO.
JM2009 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 ...can we logically talk about the "W" column for a moment and the results of these stats?............ 15-14. Not terrible.Not great.And he missed some games. It was a sophisticated G Roman run game to manage that gets taken for granted by some in my humble opinion JM. Taylor managed and participated in the best rushing O in the league. At over 5 yards an attempt that displays Buffalo's ability to play smash mouth football any help at all from the D gets the Bills into the playoffs IMO. The defense did not produce enough turnovers. Only 18. I've said before, stat wise, Oakland's defense was worse, but they got 30 turnovers.
bigduke6 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 The offense finished 12th and tenth in scoring the last two seasons. The Bills had the fewest pass attempts in 2016. TT plays a big role in why the running game works so well.And he doesn't turn the ball over. 6 ints is a nice number if your throwing for over 4k yrds and high 20s in tds. 43 sacks taken didnt help either. sure hes careful with the ball. thats nice. u know what opposing defenses thought last year? load the box, try to stop McCoy hope Tyrod doesnt connect on a long fly route or break the pocket. play 1st and 2nd down like that, keep the Bills in 3rd and long, win. u cant honestly tell me that the lack of a passing game doesnt hurt the offense. and remember, alot of his passing stats came in garbage time. lotta garbage time last season.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 Top 10 this top 10 that. What was the passing game rated? 7 wins is what we got. So much for stats. Saints passing game was rated #1. 7 wins is what they got. So much for stats.
JM2009 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 6 ints is a nice number if your throwing for over 4k yrds and high 20s in tds. 43 sacks taken didnt help either. sure hes careful with the ball. thats nice. u know what opposing defenses thought last year? load the box, try to stop McCoy hope Tyrod doesnt connect on a long fly route or break the pocket. play 1st and 2nd down like that, keep the Bills in 3rd and long, win. u cant honestly tell me that the lack of a passing game doesnt hurt the offense. and remember, alot of his passing stats came in garbage time. lotta garbage time last season. lack of his best WR for a lot of the year hurt, along with other WR injuries. "Some of Taylor’s struggles can be attributed to injuries suffered to Buffalo’s key skill players, though. In the 15 games that LeSean McCoy, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods and Charles Clay all played in, Taylor completed 64-percent of his passes for 3,362 yards, throwing 26 touchdowns and six interceptions. In the 14 games without either one of those players, those numbers dropped to a 61.2-percent completion rate, 2,697 passing yards with just 11 touchdowns and six interceptions."
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