bigduke6 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 There were three main problems last year. Offense, defense and special teams. Yeah, the defense was the worst. But we didn't have one really strong unit. We had a strong part of a unit, the offensive run game. But nobody was intimidated by our offense overall, or any other unit. ^this, sums up Bills 2016 season. running game A passing game C- defense D special teams D coaching D playoff chances F
Thurman#1 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) I'm sorry dude but it's not all that specific. TONS of NFL QBs were on the bench throughout almost all of their rookie contracts. It's the next 2 criteria that separates Taylor. I know you aren't seeing it, but you might want to reconsider the notion that Taylor can't improve just because of years of service Yup, tons of NFL QBs were on the bench throughout almost all of their rookie contracts. But when those QBs got their chances, the ones who became franchise QBs became franchise-level guys in their first opportunity. Can't name a single guy who sat out for a long time at the beginning of his career, got his chance to start, didn't show franchise level QB ability early in his long-delayed chance to start and then did later. There really isn't a guy who's ever done that, with the one single exception of Rich Gannon. As you point out, many many guys were in a situation to possible make that kind of a leap after not playing much at all in their first three or four years. And out of those probably 50 - 100 guys, one has succeeded when he hadn't done so by the end of his sixth year. The odds against Tyrod are indeed very high. History shows it. Edited July 30, 2017 by Thurman#1
John from Riverside Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 Kurt Warner was bagging groceries before joining the Rams. Do you want to discuss who he was throwing to?
Billsmovinup Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Your post is just insults and trying to tell people what to do. That seems to happen alot on this site. Just one side telling the other that they are just hateful haters with an agenda simply because they dont agree or have a negative opinion. Common tactic in this crowd. Both sides are guilty of it. Edited July 30, 2017 by Billsmovinup
Big Gun Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 Yeah our receivers were totally comparable to Kurt Warner. On the contrary... a lot of posts are discussing/arguing the topic. Your post is just insults and trying to tell people what to do. Were they or were they not open alot per the All22 last year? Yes or no question?
Thurman#1 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 I'm still waiting for someone to give me names. Thurm said that he could come up with 50 names. I'm still waiting on his list of 10. Do you even have 5? Already answered this. In this thread. Post #165. To repeat, you said you had asked me for ten guys according to some criteria. Didn't see that before and don't really care what criteria you asked for. I'm only interested in the criteria I've been addressing all along on this issue. I've said all along that Gannon's pretty much it for guys who hadn't shown themselves to be franchise guys by the time they had six years in the league and then did so later. Several times people have complained that that wasn't fair because Tyrod didn't play significant snaps his first four years. And I always pointed out that there are many people who also didn't play much in their first three or four years and then had a shot at starting jobs. And what happened is what you'd expect, that of all those many guys, the ones who succeeded, guys like Danny White for one and Aaron Rodgers, succeeded pretty quickly when given their chance. Unlike Tyrod, they became franchise guys before going into their seventh year. With again, the one exception of Rich Gannon. To quote myself from earlier in this thread: There have been probably dozens and dozens of guys who didn't play much for three or four years at the beginning of their careers and then got a chance. Cassel. Schaub. Derek Anderson. Shaun Hill. Seneca Wallace. Damon Huard. Rex Grossman. David Garrard. Jay Fiedler. Hell, our own Kelly Holcomb. Jim Miller. Steve Beuerlein. That's, what, a dozen guys without looking back more than about 13 -14 years and without being exhaustive, guys who had only a little bit of work for three or four years or even more and eventually got their chance to be the starter. None were good enough and none developed and became franchise guys. Jake Delhomme was on the bench for two years before he started. But he quickly became a borderline franchise guy. He was what he was from pretty early on, a gutsy guy who was never going to be a top ten or twelve guy but was Carolina's franchise guy for years. The really good ones - Romo, for example, who sat the bench for two and a half years but looked good very quickly once he got out there - had become ready so that they were able to seize their chance like Rodgers. Of the ones who couldn't, none have even then later turned around and become franchise guys after not proving themselves as such for six years. Basically, Gannon is it. There's an argument to be made for Plunkett, though I disagree. And that's it. Maybe you can find another one somewhere, but I can't and I've asked others before and nobody else could either. It's simply extremely rare. Ten? That's what, fourteen? Took me less than ten minutes to come up with that group. There have been tons of guys in Tyrod's position, guys who didn't have experience for three or four years and then got their chance to start. Problem is that nearly all of them aren't good enough. And the ones who are have shown it pretty much immediately. Again, of all guys who hadn't proven themselves through six years as franchise guys, almost none have later improved enough to become franchise guys. That's the likely result with Tyrod.
Scott7975 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 That seems to happen alot on this site. Just one side telling the other that they are just hateful haters with an agenda simply because they dont agree or have a negative opinion. Common tactic in this crowd. Both sides are guilty of it. Agree. Happened all the time on BBMB too but I think it was worse there then here. I think there are a lot more level headed people here. Most of the level headed people left BBMB long before shut down or were banned for stupid stuff.
Figster Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Yup, tons of NFL QBs were on the bench throughout almost all of their rookie contracts. But when those QBs got their chances, the ones who became franchise QBs became franchise-level guys in their first opportunity. Can't name a single guy who sat out for a long time at the beginning of his career, got his chance to start, didn't show franchise level QB ability early in his long-delayed chance to start and then did later. There really isn't a guy who's ever done that, with the one single exception of Rich Gannon. As you point out, many many guys were in a situation to possible make that kind of a leap after not playing much at all in their first three or four years. And out of those probably 50 - 100 guys, one has succeeded when he hadn't done so by the end of his sixth year. The odds against Tyrod are indeed very high. History shows it. What are the odds now that Taylor is going into his 3rd season as starter with a HC and OC that believes in him and an O Taylor made around him? You think the odds stacked against him might go down a little, because I do... ...history shows it... Edited July 30, 2017 by Figster
Scott7975 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 Were they or were they not open alot per the All22 last year? Yes or no question? I don't know? Were they open a lot? Does they mean they ran the right route and were open in the right spot? Were they part of Tyrods progression within our offensive system? Was Tyrod flushed early and not able to find them? I'm sure Tyrod has missed receivers. However, saying a grocery bagger was open all the time doesn't mean much. People get so critical when they can pause something and not know anything about the play. It's easy to say something when you can just pause it.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 What are the odds now that Taylor is going into his 3rd season as starter with a HC and OC that believes in him and an O Taylor made around him? You think they might go up a little because I do... ...I'm on board with that line of thinking.....look at the dysfunctional, tumultuous, patchwork environment over the past several years.....this top down football ORGANIZATION stability has been missing for YEARS.....it's been one of those "warm 'n fuzzy" work environments that you CAN'T wait to go to daily (COUGH)...............
Figster Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 ...I'm on board with that line of thinking.....look at the dysfunctional, tumultuous, patchwork environment over the past several years.....this top down football ORGANIZATION stability has been missing for YEARS.....it's been one of those "warm 'n fuzzy" work environments that you CAN'T wait to go to daily (COUGH)............... You copied my mistake before I fixed it old friend, now we're doomed...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 You copied my mistake before I fixed it old friend, now we're doomed... ...oh well, we're resilient SOB's......
Figster Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 ...oh well, we're resilient SOB's...... hahahaha, goes for the whole Bills fan base...
JM2009 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 I don't know? Were they open a lot? Does they mean they ran the right route and were open in the right spot? Were they part of Tyrods progression within our offensive system? Was Tyrod flushed early and not able to find them? I'm sure Tyrod has missed receivers. However, saying a grocery bagger was open all the time doesn't mean much. People get so critical when they can pause something and not know anything about the play. It's easy to say something when you can just pause it. Without Watkins, and Woods at times, the Bills had a bottom five WR corp. maybe the worst.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 hahahaha, goes for the whole Bills fan base... ......Kevlar vests are "standard issue for all Bills fans" according to the founding 1960 AFL Club Charter......
Big Gun Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 Without Watkins, and Woods at times, the Bills had a bottom five WR corp. maybe the worst. Who were still open a lot. I don't know? Were they open a lot? Does they mean they ran the right route and were open in the right spot? Were they part of Tyrods progression within our offensive system? Was Tyrod flushed early and not able to find them? I'm sure Tyrod has missed receivers. However, saying a grocery bagger was open all the time doesn't mean much. People get so critical when they can pause something and not know anything about the play. It's easy to say something when you can just pause it. Of course, didn't think you would answer yes or no.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 Who were still open a lot. Of course, didn't think you would answer yes or no. Of course, you didn't answer his questions either.
Figster Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 ......Kevlar vests are "standard issue for all Bills fans" according to the founding 1960 AFL Club Charter...... ...comes complete with bullet proof jock strap... ...kevlar cup...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Were they or were they not open alot per the All22 last year? Yes or no question? ...I'd bet a bunch of film rats could find a multitude of instances where receivers pulled up short or coasted, feeling TT would not see them open nor be able to process the entire field in<5 seconds....BUT...it is NOT solely a TT flaw and I'd bet many of the younger NFL starters league wide struggle with the identical problem....speed of the game at NFL level is exponentially greater than collegiate level......knowing that is an apparent area of struggle, it's incumbent upon Dennison to design a proper fit offense for 2017.....if he cannot adapt, he is not here in 2018 IMO.................. Edited July 30, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
transplantbillsfan Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) How did TT rank as a QB in 2015? Certainly not 20th. That's just ludicrous. It's ludicrous in the same way it would be if you were to say that Taylor was a top three quarterback in 2015. By whatever measurements or metrics or I tests you want to use, you could put Taylor anywhere from 7 to 15 reasonably, I think. Edited July 30, 2017 by transplantbillsfan
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