Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Going back to Nix for a second, he gets guff for not selecting a top QB during his tenure, but yet when you look at the drop off after Cam and Luck (who wasn't an option because the Bills were just good enough that year...), it's tangible, with the sole exception of a guy that the Bills didn't pick but could have: being R Wilson. To put it another way, the fact that Gabbert is still hanging in, and to a lesser extent EJ, tells you a lot about the pool of talent during that window of time. To me, the poison pill in Nix's regime, and at the QB position, was giving Fitz that contract in the first place. It was player friendly, and if I'm Fitz there's no way I'm going to re-up for way less money. IMO things would have been a lot less turbulent at the position if the team had retained Fitz (with a better contract than what they had agreed to originally) then took their lumps with EJ in limited dosages. Your mileage will probably vary with this line of thought. You mean like the master stroke the team would have enjoyed with Chip Kelly at the helm? I don't blame him for not selecting a top QB. I blame him for having such a bad QB plan in general. If you have a Fitz type - even with a player friendly deal... how can you not look at adding players like dalton, wilson, or foles? Same goes for Whaley. 2014 we didn't draft any even though McCarron or Savage were available in the 4th/5th rounds. We didn't draft Cardale until we were sure we were done with EJ. Displays a lack of foresight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I don't blame him for not selecting a top QB. I blame him for having such a bad QB plan in general. If you have a Fitz type - even with a player friendly deal... how can you not look at adding players like dalton, wilson, or foles? Same goes for Whaley. 2014 we didn't draft any even though McCarron or Savage were available in the 4th/5th rounds. We didn't draft Cardale until we were sure we were done with EJ. Displays a lack of foresight. The problem was that they drafted EJ, and figured they would augment the position with guys like Thad and Tuel and Kolb all the while bringing in guys like VY and Hollywood Leinart. Plus, those teams had an obscene number of holes, and QB was one among many, and it's not like quality FAs were coming here early on, so you had to go draft or UDFA or second-rate FAs, street FAs, etc. I agree that the position has been ignored for ages, but even with drafting more QBs, I'm not sure how you can find "the guy" when your coaching, systems, and FO are all kind of bad (and I'm being kind) and are perpetually in transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Yes, that is the sole exception I can think of. Like all of the good QBs selected when Buffalo could have had one, I wonder how Wilson would have done here under center. I bet he would be a lot like TT, perhaps slightly better. I think the biggest problem was panicking and drafting EJ in the first place. Shouldve traded out of pick 8 and into 2014 instead. We were in essentially a prime position to tank for a couple years. We had like 0 QB options, and could've purged the roster of bad contracts like the Jets are doing this year. We'd have probably had Bortles if we went QB in 2014... or we would've bottomed out so hard that we may have gone value and got a guy like Khalil Mack or Clowney for value instead of reaching. Continue on the bottom out path and we can get winston or mariota who are closer resembling cant miss QB prospects. The problem was that they drafted EJ, and figured they would augment the position with guys like Thad and Tuel and Kolb all the while bringing in guys like VY and Hollywood Leinart. Plus, those teams had an obscene number of holes, and QB was one among many, and it's not like quality FAs were coming here early on, so you had to go draft or UDFA or second-rate FAs, street FAs, etc. I agree that the position has been ignored for ages, but even with drafting more QBs, I'm not sure how you can find "the guy" when your coaching, systems, and FO are all kind of bad (and I'm being kind) and are perpetually in transition. Looking back, it's hard to see where they thought they resembled a playoff team. The only reason we're closer now is Shady (because he's good), and Tyrod (because he's so much better than EJ/Orton/Fitz/Edwards). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) I think the biggest problem was panicking and drafting EJ in the first place. Shouldve traded out of pick 8 and into 2014 instead. We were in essentially a prime position to tank for a couple years. We had like 0 QB options, and could've purged the roster of bad contracts like the Jets are doing this year. We'd have probably had Bortles if we went QB in 2014... or we would've bottomed out so hard that we may have gone value and got a guy like Khalil Mack or Clowney for value instead of reaching. Continue on the bottom out path and we can get winston or mariota who are closer resembling cant miss QB prospects. Looking back, it's hard to see where they thought they resembled a playoff team. The only reason we're closer now is Shady (because he's good), and Tyrod (because he's so much better than EJ/Orton/Fitz/Edwards). I'm glad the Bills didn't get to select Bortles, FWIW. I was kind of hoping for Jimmy G, but those are the breaks. I had thought the Bills would make the playoffs in 2013, in large part because the on-field product had been showing signs of life for a change, and because there were a bunch of truly middling and horrible teams in the AFC that year. But to the point of tanking, I'm not sure that first-time NFL HC (Marrone) and GM (DW) were empowered to do such a thing, in particular during a change in ownership. Besides, tanking under DW might lead to drafting a RB or CB with a top-5 pick. You never know. Edited July 18, 2017 by NeckBeard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 You mean like the master stroke the team would have enjoyed with Chip Kelly at the helm? To be fair... The Eagles won the NFC east and made the playoffs in 2013, and finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 To be fair... The Eagles won the NFC east and made the playoffs in 2013, and finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs in 2014. True words, but would that have played with the Bills? Too many holes, and Chip seemed to chafe players in ways that not even Marrone was able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Hi Doug Hi Gug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I'm glad the Bills didn't get to select Bortles, FWIW. I was kind of hoping for Jimmy G, but those are the breaks. I had thought the Bills would make the playoffs in 2013, in large part because the on-field product had been showing signs of life for a change, and because there were a bunch of truly middling and horrible teams in the AFC that year. But to the point of tanking, I'm not sure that first-time NFL HC (Marrone) and GM (DW) were empowered to do such a thing, in particular during a change in ownership. Besides, tanking under DW might lead to drafting a RB or CB with a top-5 pick. You never know. Ownership issues are probably at the heart of the drought. Hopefully getting personell and coaching guys aligned will help end it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 To be fair... The Eagles won the NFC east and made the playoffs in 2013, and finished 10-6 and missed the playoffs in 2014. Chip is a failed NFL Head Coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Looking back, it's hard to see where they thought they resembled a playoff team. The only reason we're closer now is Shady (because he's good), and Tyrod (because he's so much better than EJ/Orton/Fitz/Edwards). I think a lot of people overlook the bolded but its true. This offense is a new playbook and a few playmakers away from being deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Cutler has been okay but never a top 10 starter, Young had a couple of reasonable years early on, Leinart was an unmitigated disaster. ...and Marv passed on The Cutlet and Hot Tub Leinart with Vince going #3....was he right or wrong?....BTW he had Losman in the stable.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 ...and Marv passed on The Cutlet and Hot Tub Leinart with Vince going #3....was he right or wrong?....BTW he had Losman in the stable.................. Losman went on to have by far his best Bills season in 2006.... I don't think passing on the 2006 guys was the worst mistake the Bills have ever made but it is hard to argue Cutler wouldn't have been an upgrade on most of what has followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 they absolutely did. i think they used the extra pick to take kiko. (could be wrong on that). which got us Shady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 They wanted Roethlisberger, but flubbed the trade up. Not sure why they felt they needed to reach for Losman after that though... Losman had enough tools to be successful. I think they screwed up by playing him too early. He was a project at best and would have benefited from another year watching IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Losman had enough tools to be successful. I think they screwed up by playing him too early. He was a project at best and would have benefited from another year watching IMO Plus his first year was a wash due to the freak broken leg if memory serves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Plus his first year was a wash due to the freak broken leg if memory serves. Yup. He wasnt ready emotionally either. He was kind of a jerk until he got served some humble pie. Then he lost his confidence when Dickie J couldnt get over Checkdown's poise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Yup. He wasnt ready emotionally either. He was kind of a jerk until he got served some humble pie. Then he lost his confidence when Dickie J couldnt get over Checkdown's poise The only season JP looked like a NFL qb was under Jauron (I think, they all blend together). Knowing him a little bit off the field, he didn't have "it" and his teammates weren't going to war for him. He was a nicer Jay Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 The only season JP looked like a NFL qb was under Jauron (I think, they all blend together). Knowing him a little bit off the field, he didn't have "it" and his teammates weren't going to war for him. He was a nicer Jay Cutler. It was 2006 I'm pretty sure of it. Was that first year Dickie J? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 It was 2006 I'm pretty sure of it. Was that first year Dickie J? Yup. I remember folks talking about how the Bills were holding Losman back and he would do much better if we let him do his thing (similar to the Tyrod talk now, though TT is a much better qb). Jauron wasn't a good coach. But when you look at what he did winning 7 games with JP and Trent & that garbage roster, it's actually pretty impressive. It also shows how terrible Rex really was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Yup. I remember folks talking about how the Bills were holding Losman back and he would do much better if we let him do his thing (similar to the Tyrod talk now, though TT is a much better qb). Jauron wasn't a good coach. But when you look at what he did winning 7 games with JP and Trent & that garbage roster, it's actually pretty impressive. It also shows how terrible Rex really was. Those 7 win seasons look miraculous when I think back to those rosters.... I was still a relative NFL newbie back then though so I can't pretend I knew what good and bad looked like as well then as I do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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