Stephon Gilmore quietly disses Buffalo Bills on Twitter

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I drop Brent Grimes no less than 10 spots because I hate his wife. He is like mid 40's on my list.

 

i mean... shes a piece of work alright. Ran him out of miami.. but was she wrong when she said Tannehill sucked? Out of line sure - but was she wrong...?

This list is frankly laughable. Some of these guys can't hold Gilmore's jock.

 

Who do you rank him above? And why?

Edited July 21, 2017 by dneveu

[Blokestradamus]

This is very generous.

I view him in the late 20s, early 30s on a CB list. If he can be consistent, he'd be a stud, but 4/5 years he has been very average and inconsistent.

 

Off the top of my head , I'd add-

Jimmy Smith

Dominique Rogers Cromartie

Pacman Jones

Jason Verett

Sam Shields

Countless others that you can debate..

For example, Ronald Darby. He could excel in this system. He already outplayed Gilmore in year 1. He was the 2nd best CB at tackling last year according to PFF.

 

I'll give you Verrett as above him, I knew that list was missing someone. If you're putting him in the late 20's or early 30's, you're reaching.

 

I'll also say it until I'm blue in the face, tackling at corner doesn't mean anything. There's 2-3 plays per game (maximum) where your CB is your force player, that's a marginal impact on your run D.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

I'll give you Verrett as above him, I knew that list was missing someone. If you're putting him in the late 20's or early 30's, you're reaching.

 

I'll also say it until I'm blue in the face, tackling at corner doesn't mean anything. There's 2-3 plays per game (maximum) where your CB is your force player, that's a marginal impact on your run D.

 

Tackling is the big knock on janoris jenkins, but he had an excellent year last year with NYG. Sometimes a change of scenery will do ya good.

[cba fan]

 

I'll give you Verrett as above him, I knew that list was missing someone. If you're putting him in the late 20's or early 30's, you're reaching.

 

I'll also say it until I'm blue in the face, tackling at corner doesn't mean anything. There's 2-3 plays per game (maximum) where your CB is your force player, that's a marginal impact on your run D.

We are not just talking about run support. He struggles tackling WR's also. They shed him like AJ Watt going around a TE.

Edited July 21, 2017 by cba fan

[GunnerBill]

For example, Ronald Darby. He could excel in this system. He already outplayed Gilmore in year 1. He was the 2nd best CB at tackling last year according to PFF.

He really didn't.

[JerseyBills]

 

I'll give you Verrett as above him, I knew that list was missing someone. If you're putting him in the late 20's or early 30's, you're reaching.

 

I'll also say it until I'm blue in the face, tackling at corner doesn't mean anything. There's 2-3 plays per game (maximum) where your CB is your force player, that's a marginal impact on your run D.

Mid to late 20s tops. I don't consider him a top 20 cb, at least up to this point in his career.

And being a good tackler at CB Def means something. To say it's meaningless is ignorant.. In run support, most likely the RB is on the outside, that missed tackle can result in huge yardage,key 1st downns and TDs.

In the passing game , same thing. So yes it might be 5 plays a game but those missed tackle(s) can result in huge chunks of yards

[GunnerBill]

Who do you rank him above? And why?

The list Blokes had with the changes I suggested. I watch a lot of NFL football from all teams. The idea that Xavier Rhodes for example is more consistent than Stephon Gilmore is laughable to me. There were points in 2015 where the Vikings wanted to bench him but had no depth behind. Brent Grimes? I'll have some of what you are smoking. One good season in Tampa does not erradicate a career of sub standard play.

 

You might not see pundits calling Gilmore a top 15 corner now but that is recency bias because of a dodgy start to 2016. They definitely were after his 2015 season (just one example: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/ranking-the-top-10-cornerbacks-in-the-nfl-070716)

 

The numbers in terms of completions given up, TDs given up, yards given up and passer rating when thrown against are right there in line with the top guys (even the ones I am not arguing he is better than). Bandit has posted them on this board before.

 

EDIT: I am confident enough in my opinion that I will go player by player on your list if you like?

Edited July 21, 2017 by GunnerBill

[Blokestradamus]

Mid to late 20s tops. I don't consider him a top 20 cb, at least up to this point in his career.

And being a good tackler at CB Def means something. To say it's meaningless is ignorant.. In run support, most likely the RB is on the outside, that missed tackle can result in huge yardage,key 1st downns and TDs.

In the passing game , same thing. So yes it might be 5 plays a game but those missed tackle(s) can result in huge chunks of yards

 

First of all, if the run plays are getting out to your boundary often enough to affect things, you've got much bigger issues defensively than a corner that's not great vs the run. Second of all, just as a personal preference (and an absolutely huge critic of tackling in the entirety of North America), I'm paying my corners to cover in a passing league. Given the chance, I'd love a physical tone-setter on the boundary, I just don't lose sleep if I don't have it.

 

Also, to CBA's point about tackles after completions, the apparently-flawless Ronald Darby allowed 30 yards more than Gilmore after the catch on 103 less coverage snaps. Darby actually missed as many tackles last year as Gilmore (with 8) on 160 fewer total snaps. While I'll grant anyone that Darby has better form as a tackler, it did seem as though folks were focusing on the soon-to-be free agent scapegoat rather than picking up on failings elsewhere.

 

For the record, Corey Graham led the team with 14 missed tackles.

[cba fan]

 

First of all, if the run plays are getting out to your boundary often enough to affect things, you've got much bigger issues defensively than a corner that's not great vs the run. Second of all, just as a personal preference (and an absolutely huge critic of tackling in the entirety of North America), I'm paying my corners to cover in a passing league. Given the chance, I'd love a physical tone-setter on the boundary, I just don't lose sleep if I don't have it.

 

Also, to CBA's point about tackles after completions, the apparently-flawless Ronald Darby allowed 30 yards more than Gilmore after the catch on 103 less coverage snaps. Darby actually missed as many tackles last year as Gilmore (with 8) on 160 fewer total snaps. While I'll grant anyone that Darby has better form as a tackler, it did seem as though folks were focusing on the soon-to-be free agent scapegoat rather than picking up on failings elsewhere.

 

For the record, Corey Graham led the team with 14 missed tackles.

You are correct, however, Darby is not asking to be the highest pd CB right now and that is the factor here. Gilmore showed in 5 yrs he is slightly above avg when healthy. Problem is he splits the other 66% of the time pretty evenly between being less than avg or hurt. He is not a franchise player like his contract says he is now. Pats will find out soon enough. Just like Hogan was essentially the same player with Bills he is now with Pats.

Edited July 21, 2017 by cba fan

[Blokestradamus]

You are correct, however, Darby is not asking to be the highest pd CB right now and that is the factor here. Gilmore showed in 5 yrs he is slightly above avg when healthy. Problem is he splits the other 66% of the time pretty evenly between being less than avg or hurt. He is not a franchise player like his contract says he is now. Pats will find out soon enough. Just like Hogan was essentially the same player with Bills he is now with Pats.

 

I guess this is just going to be going in circles from this point. All I've got left is opinion and it's evidently clear that we differ on the subject. All we can do is wait and see at this point.

 

I look forward to doing this again over Darby in the New Year when his agent starts talking about a new deal

[cba fan]

 

I guess this is just going to be going in circles from this point. All I've got left is opinion and it's evidently clear that we differ on the subject. All we can do is wait and see at this point.

 

I look forward to doing this again over Darby in the New Year when his agent starts talking about a new deal

I know Bills fans are kind of caught in a "groundhog day prequel". So I will stop now, thanks.

 

I do have hopes Darby excels and earns the big deal. He has 2 yrs left to show it.

Edited July 22, 2017 by cba fan

[Iron Maiden]

It's absolutely insane to call Gilmore just an average CB...he is a very good CB, definitely top 15...the fact that he doesn't play for the Bills anymore won't change that...hell, he will probably be even better under BB....

Edited July 22, 2017 by Iron Maiden

[NoSaint]

You are correct, however, Darby is not asking to be the highest pd CB right now and that is the factor here. Gilmore showed in 5 yrs he is slightly above avg when healthy. Problem is he splits the other 66% of the time pretty evenly between being less than avg or hurt. He is not a franchise player like his contract says he is now. Pats will find out soon enough. Just like Hogan was essentially the same player with Bills he is now with Pats.

So in about a year when Darby wants an extension you will drop your opinion of him?

[Iron Maiden]

You are correct, however, Darby is not asking to be the highest pd CB right now and that is the factor here. Gilmore showed in 5 yrs he is slightly above avg when healthy. Problem is he splits the other 66% of the time pretty evenly between being less than avg or hurt. He is not a franchise player like his contract says he is now. Pats will find out soon enough. Just like Hogan was essentially the same player with Bills he is now with Pats.

 

That will change soon enough...what do we do then ?....let him go ?

[JerseyBills]

 

That will change soon enough...what do we do then ?....let him go ?

That's quite a ways in the future, he's locked in for this year and next, and if he becomes a great CB, we tag him in 3 years, if a deal cannot be reached, which is considered a super long time in this league. Why even worry about something that won't be an issue for 3 years?

[Iron Maiden]

That's quite a ways in the future, he's locked in for this year and next, and if he becomes a great CB, we tag him in 3 years, if a deal cannot be reached, which is considered a super long time in this league. Why even worry about something that won't be an issue for 3 years?

 

The way things are done at OBD, I'm not sure we tag him....at the very least, the Bills will have to make a commitment ( Big $ ) after 2 years....the tag amount will be pretty high at that point.....2 years is not that far away.....if he's as good as Gilmore or even better, are the Bills just going to let him go or will they give him Gilmore $ ?.....

[Kirby Jackson]

Is this the thread that we go to after a good player leaves and pretend that he wasn't that good? Asking for a friend....

[NoSaint]

Is this the thread that we go to after a good player leaves and pretend that he wasn't that good? Asking for a friend....

Yup. It's also key to have a depth player that we can call better today with time left on his contract so we can call him worse later

[Gugny]

Is this the thread that we go to after a good player leaves and pretend that he wasn't that good? Asking for a friend....

 

Ha!!!! YES!

[row_33]

You know he's going to have the most spectacular first 8 weeks of his career now, right?