CanadianFan Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 That's awfully strange because every single source says otherwise, but hey don't let facts get in the way of the story you make up in your head. When you look at his career, which part of it was based on evaluating NFL talent? He was always in "operations" guy from almost the very beginning. He was "manager" of operations for a long time. Then became "director" of operations. And then promoted to AGM. No background in talent evaluation. He's great at managerial stuff. So, essentially, he's a manager. Not a talent "finder". He's going to rubber-stamp what McD wants. Again, Charlotte got lucky with Cam. If we lost one more game then them that season, we'd have Cam instead of the weed smoker and we'd be in the playoffs already. Having Cam makes up for a lot of short-comings. But it doesn't make them great at building consistent winners. Which they really haven't exhibited. That's why I'm underwhelmed by McD, underwhelmed by Beane. One thing yes, Beane is good at relationships in Charlotte, so everyone speaks well of him. That doesn't make him great at building a consistent winner. We'll see. He's got a 5 year contract. And he inhereted decent talent. He has to find a QB soon. That'll make him a competent hire. Not a great hire. When Brandon Beane left for Buffalo, Gettleman lost a key member of his team who had performed many day-to-day functions of a GM, a role that allowed Gettleman to focus on roster building http://www.panthers.com/news/article-2/Examining-why-Panthers-parted-ways-with-Dave-Gettleman/6b8b96da-b6ed-4814-8ca2-29bf7542aa17
26CornerBlitz Posted July 18, 2017 Author Posted July 18, 2017 @AroundTheNFL Ron Rivera on why Panthers fired GM Dave Gettleman: 'I'm the wrong person to ask' http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000820538/article/ron-rivera-surprised-panthers-fired-dave-gettleman
3rdand12 Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 As an outsider looking in, sometimes I wonder about the discussions and pipelines to positions of Nfl leadership. Head coach is another. It seems the number one priority is being a strong play caller on a single side of the ball. it seems there might be some opportunities for unconventional paths (I hate to say it but similar to a marrone, for instance. Strong manager that can be hands off but bring in good coordinators and run game day... obviously, marrone was better at some of those things than others. Obviously.) I do enjoy your thinking, and sense of humor. The balance of game day and everything thing that precedes it can be approached in many a method. Gettleman was likely there to do a job. Not make friends. That's in any industry i have come to notice. Not that i know the dynamics with the Owner on down. But Buffalo seems to be a synergy right now. We shall find out the truth when the Bills struggle I suppose, and Terry feels the pressure. btw i do not want to compare the two. Just speaking about NFL Owner ship dynamics.
YoloinOhio Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 When you look at his career, which part of it was based on evaluating NFL talent? He was always in "operations" guy from almost the very beginning. He was "manager" of operations for a long time. Then became "director" of operations. And then promoted to AGM. No background in talent evaluation. He's great at managerial stuff. So, essentially, he's a manager. Not a talent "finder". He's going to rubber-stamp what McD wants. Again, Charlotte got lucky with Cam. If we lost one more game then them that season, we'd have Cam instead of the weed smoker and we'd be in the playoffs already. Having Cam makes up for a lot of short-comings. But it doesn't make them great at building consistent winners. Which they really haven't exhibited. That's why I'm underwhelmed by McD, underwhelmed by Beane. One thing yes, Beane is good at relationships in Charlotte, so everyone speaks well of him. That doesn't make him great at building a consistent winner. We'll see. He's got a 5 year contract. And he inhereted decent talent. He has to find a QB soon. That'll make him a competent hire. Not a great hire. http://www.panthers.com/news/article-2/Examining-why-Panthers-parted-ways-with-Dave-Gettleman/6b8b96da-b6ed-4814-8ca2-29bf7542aa17 Talent evaluation and building/running a team in conjunction with the HC are two different things and while being a good scout may have allowed one to become a GM in the past, these days they should focus more on the latter. He hired several highly regarded talent evaluators to work for him and execute the vision he and McD have for the team. Whaley was on the other end of the spectrum - he was a good talent evaluator imo but he wasn't able to execute a vision toward building a team, and he wasn't a strong communicator or leader. A good talent evaluator is called a scout, or perhaps a director of scouting. Not a GM. A GM runs a team, operationally and as a FO leader, and hires good talent evaluators to carry out his vision. Imo
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) lol versatile but this board is probably not the place to head in that direction.Ha- figured I'd add some levity. You're right on the other topic. All wars, every last on in history boiled down to money and power. Politicians and pontiffs expertly wrap rallying causes around them to inspire the masses. Sounds like some small bit of that same callous did in Gettleman. Edited July 19, 2017 by Over 28 years of fanhood
BillsFan4 Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Talent evaluation and building/running a team in conjunction with the HC are two different things and while being a good scout may have allowed one to become a GM in the past, these days they should focus more on the latter. He hired several highly regarded talent evaluators to work for him and execute the vision he and McD have for the team. Whaley was on the other end of the spectrum - he was a good talent evaluator imo but he wasn't able to execute a vision toward building a team, and he wasn't a strong communicator or leader. A good talent evaluator is called a scout, or perhaps a director of scouting. Not a GM. A GM runs a team, operationally and as a FO leader, and hires good talent evaluators to carry out his vision. ImoVery well said. Beane's hired an all star cast of talent evaluators to surround himself with. And for the record, he does have years of experience evaluating talent under Dave Gettleman. DG was training him in that area. We've had a scout running the team and it didn't end up working out all that well. I like that Beane is very well rounded in almost every aspect of running an NFL team and I think he seems to have a clear vision on how he wants to build this thing. There are entire teams of scouts and personnel directors for a reason. I'd rather have a collaborative vision and talent evaluation anyway. I actually kind of like that he's not a scout. If the Bills drafts are not up to par, he can fire some of our current talent evaluators and bring in someone else, where as if an ex scout GM doesn't end up being too great at drafting, we are stuck with his sub par drafts until he is fired. Edited July 19, 2017 by BillsFan4
eball Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 @AroundTheNFL Ron Rivera on why Panthers fired GM Dave Gettleman: 'I'm the wrong person to ask' http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000820538/article/ron-rivera-surprised-panthers-fired-dave-gettleman So Rivera wasn't privy?
CanadianFan Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Talent evaluation and building/running a team in conjunction with the HC are two different things and while being a good scout may have allowed one to become a GM in the past, these days they should focus more on the latter. He hired several highly regarded talent evaluators to work for him and execute the vision he and McD have for the team. Whaley was on the other end of the spectrum - he was a good talent evaluator imo but he wasn't able to execute a vision toward building a team, and he wasn't a strong communicator or leader. A good talent evaluator is called a scout, or perhaps a director of scouting. Not a GM. A GM runs a team, operationally and as a FO leader, and hires good talent evaluators to carry out his vision. Imo Well I think a GM needs to have a firm grasp of the type of talent needed to have on the field. And the culture in the locker room. And the coaching talent needed to bring out the best talent. A GM also needs to understand the cap management and plan for that. And other administrative stuff. When I look at him, he didn't make his mark from having the accountability for evaluating any of the first part. Until now. That's a bit dangerous IMO. Yes, that's one of my original concerns and points I made which the other guy was refuting - talent evaluation is his big weakness (amongst other things), and so he surrounded himself with some of the best talent evaluators. If there is consensus amongst scouts, fine. If there isn't, then we are to rely on his judgement which was never developed for that? But this goes back to whether he has a vision for the team and the organization - as to which on-field talents work best together. And he never cut his teeth, earned his paycheck based on that. So how is he to have a "vision" for a future successful NFL talent or team when he never cut his teeth on it? So far from what we know, he's good at administrative side of things. And that he is likable. And that's how he got hired by Pegulas. They liked him. Again, underwhelming. So the picture I am getting is, yes he's an administrator. He's a manager. And ultimately, there is only one football guy between McD and Beane. And that's not Beane but McD. Let's see if that's enough.
GunnerBill Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 So the picture I am getting is, yes he's an administrator. He's a manager. And ultimately, there is only one football guy between McD and Beane. And that's not Beane but McD. Let's see if that's enough. I think that was the whole point of the Beane hire. This team is being built to McDermott's vision, make no mistake about it. This hire was about getting someone who is a proven leader with an ability to run a department efficiently (because that was basically what he did in Carolina) who will stay 100% committed to delivering that vision rather than having the contrasting visions that we have had since Nix/Chan the last combination that was in lock step. As Nix/Chan proved..... that in itself is not sufficient to deliver success, the vision must be the right one..... and it is a lot of power for a first time Head Coach. I believe McDermott will be a good one - the Bills need him to be.
teef Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Jim Miller on SiriusNFL went off on the Panthers over the firing. He disclosed that he and Gettleman were close personally, but called the firing a terrible thing. I thought it was unprofessional of him -considering he's in a neutral position as a League commentator on their network. He'll most likely carry a grudge against the Panthers all season. so did kirwan. he blasted the move and specifically said it was stupid.
GunnerBill Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 so did kirwan. he blasted the move and specifically said it was stupid. I think it was stupid too. They have fired him because he doesn't get all sentimental and warm and fuzzy with "home grown" players (like anyone is home grown in college this isn't European soccer where clubs develop kids from 8 or 9 years old) and older veterans. He has proven himself a solid talent evaluator and was the GM of a team that went 15-1 and to the Superbowl a year ago.
teef Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 I think it was stupid too. They have fired him because he doesn't get all sentimental and warm and fuzzy with "home grown" players (like anyone is home grown in college this isn't European soccer where clubs develop kids from 8 or 9 years old) and older veterans. He has proven himself a solid talent evaluator and was the GM of a team that went 15-1 and to the Superbowl a year ago. i don't know enough about carolina's internal structure, but the move certainly is strange. they really seem to place it on the dysfunction of the owner.
Buffalo Boy Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Richardson is talking to Hurney to bring him back as GM. This was the guy who drafted the current nucleus of players. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000820525/article/marty-hurney-meeting-with-richardson-about-gm-job
Buffalo Boy Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) TERRIBLE idea!!!! Hurney is a " Cap Guy" who blew the cap up by giving exorbitant money for past glory(Delhomme) or over paying for talent (Charles Johnson) His ability to make the obvious pick in the first round( Cam, Kueckley) is not noteworthy as the reason he had those high picks is the Panthers sucked every other year. His one Great pick up was Olson in FA from the Bears. Bringing him back would be somewhat analogous to bring Marv back to the Bills to chase past glory. Richardson is a crazy old fool( Ralph Wilson) who wants to do it his way because it's comfortable... results be damned. If they bring Hurney back, I predict the " interim " label will come off if they have a playoff season thus dooming the Panthers to a fairly quick demise Edited July 19, 2017 by Buffalo Boy
GunnerBill Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Olsen wasn't a free agent... he traded a 3rd for him. Still a good move mind you.
26CornerBlitz Posted July 19, 2017 Author Posted July 19, 2017 @RapSheet The #Panthers are finalizing a deal to hire former GM Marty Hurney as their new interim GM, source said. Will take them through 2017.
Buffalo Boy Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Olsen wasn't a free agent... he traded a 3rd for him. Still a good move mind you.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 When you look at his career, which part of it was based on evaluating NFL talent? He was always in "operations" guy from almost the very beginning. He was "manager" of operations for a long time. Then became "director" of operations. And then promoted to AGM. No background in talent evaluation. He's great at managerial stuff. So, essentially, he's a manager. Not a talent "finder". He's going to rubber-stamp what McD wants. Again, Charlotte got lucky with Cam. If we lost one more game then them that season, we'd have Cam instead of the weed smoker and we'd be in the playoffs already. Having Cam makes up for a lot of short-comings. But it doesn't make them great at building consistent winners. Which they really haven't exhibited. That's why I'm underwhelmed by McD, underwhelmed by Beane. One thing yes, Beane is good at relationships in Charlotte, so everyone speaks well of him. That doesn't make him great at building a consistent winner. We'll see. He's got a 5 year contract. And he inhereted decent talent. He has to find a QB soon. That'll make him a competent hire. Not a great hire. http://www.panthers.com/news/article-2/Examining-why-Panthers-parted-ways-with-Dave-Gettleman/6b8b96da-b6ed-4814-8ca2-29bf7542aa17 I look at it like - we've had scouts run the team. They didn't do a great job of valuing players based on their contributions, and over-valued certain players with regards to picks (sammy, EJ, kouandjo, graham, goodwin), as well as money (Dareus, Glenn, Tyrods first deal, repeatedly paying harvin). Overpaying, and bad cap habits are the reason we lost players like woods, gilmore, Searcy, Levitre. We may have still lost some of them because of contract demands, but we should have at least had the cap space to replace them more effectively. Now having said that, they did bring in many talented players and free agents. We aren't at a browns level of incompetence.
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