Kirby Jackson Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 I keep reading, all over this forum, what a 'special' player M Hyde is, or what a great get he is - Honestly I don't get the hype, yes I think he's a solid young 5th year depth player, with potential upside to start in the right system, but one should remember the Packers never saw him an NFL starter, and made no attempt to re-sign him, here's a review by a packers media pundit who witnessed Hyde's game in and game out over 4 seasons Despite some of the big plays that Hyde made down the stretch, Hyde is part of the reason that the Packers defense struggled as much as it did as well. Hyde does not have top end speed. He struggles in man coverage. He has made some big plays, but gave up his fair share as well. Hyde is a solid all around player, but does not do anything special. He would have been a solid piece for the Packers to bring back if the price would have been right. When the Packers secondary was healthy in 2015, Hyde was designated as the player to shadow the opposing teams tight ends. He was repeatedly targeted, and mostly abused in coverage. 2016 brought about a bigger role for him because of a secondary that was ravaged by injuries. Hyde performed admirably. An eight-game stretch does not, however, erase the kind of player that the Packers should have learned that Hyde was over the stretch of the first four years of his career. In order to retain Hyde, the Packers would have had to pay him more money than what they let Casey Hayward walk away for just one season ago. Even if you remove Haywards outlier season in terms of interceptions, Hayward was always a better cornerback than Hyde. Hydes versatility, while useful is not worth the price that was ultimately paid to him from outside of the organization. The lack of an offer by the Packers proves the team felt the same way. By removing Hyde from the defense altogether, the Packers are almost forcing themselves to get faster in the secondary. They will need someone to replace all the things that Hyde did for them. Theyll likely find someone who is better athletically and with more speed. His play down the stretch turned into a big payday. Hyde should be commended for that. Without Hyde, the Packers may not have made the playoffs, let alone been one step from the Super Bowl. It can also be true that the defense was bad with Hyde on the field. It can also be true that Hyde is one of the main reasons the secondary was as poor as it was. Hyde was a limited player. His new contract is paying him as if he is a premium player. While the Packers technically got worse by losing Hydes versatility in the short run, it forces them to get better in the long run. For that reason along with several others, the Packers made the right call by letting Hyde walk. jc FWIW, the Packers used Hyde differently than I think the Bills will. The author points out his struggles primarilybdoing the job of a CB. In Buffalo he will be used as a playmaking safety. The Bills successfully transitioned Aaron Williams and Corey Graham to safety. The Packers used Hyde as a chess piece. I expect the Bills to do less of that minimizing the areas that he struggles with. He's not perfect but will have to be the best safety on the roster for this team to have any success.
mjt328 Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 It's possible. But after being let down by this team over and over again, I think most fans are going to be skeptical until the Bills actually do something on the field. I keep seeing predictions that our defense gets back to 2014 form with the switch back to a 4-3 scheme. It's not going to be that easy. That defense had Mario Williams playing at a Pro Bowl level. This defense has a completely unproven Shaq Lawson. That defense had Stephon Gilmore and Nigel Bradham. This defense has two starters (Tre White and Reggie Ragland) that haven't played a snap in the NFL. Not to mention our safeties have been overhauled, Kyle Williams is aging quickly and it's fair to question Marcel Dareus' commitment since his big contract was signed. Some believe the offensive changes and simplified passing concepts will benefit Tyrod Taylor and the passing game. Maybe. But it's not like our passing schemes were really complicated to start with. And it's not like we made a big upgrade in weapons. Improvement in the passing game is up to Taylor's development... which seemed to stagnate last season. It's also fair to question whether offensive changes (new blocking scheme for example) takes our rushing attack down a notch.
K D Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 if you guys are so optimistic then put your money where your mouth is. vegas is giving us 6-1 odds to make the playoffs. they are saying we are the 6th worst team in the NFL http://buffalonews.com/2017/07/10/dont-bet-bills-playoff-odds-sixth-worst-nfl/
26CornerBlitz Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 I like the Bills a little bit at those odds. I think I gave them about a 1 in 4 shot of making it. The AFC in general isn't very good (or deep). The Bills should have went last year as it turns out. I'll probably throw $100 down. It's most likely a donation but at those odds I don't hate it. Vegas will gladly accept your donation.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 Vegas will gladly accept your donation. I have them at like 20-25% ish so getting a little better odds is worth it. If they were 4:1 I would pass.
GunnerBill Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 I keep reading, all over this forum, what a 'special' player M Hyde is, or what a great get he is - Honestly I don't get the hype, yes I think he's a solid young 5th year depth player, with potential upside to start in the right system, but one should remember the Packers never saw him an NFL starter, and made no attempt to re-sign him, here's a review by a packers media pundit who witnessed Hyde's game in and game out over 4 seasons Despite some of the big plays that Hyde made down the stretch, Hyde is part of the reason that the Packers’ defense struggled as much as it did as well. Hyde does not have top end speed. He struggles in man coverage. He has made some big plays, but gave up his fair share as well. Hyde is a solid all around player, but does not do anything special. He would have been a solid piece for the Packers to bring back if the price would have been right. When the Packers’ secondary was healthy in 2015, Hyde was designated as the player to shadow the opposing team’s tight ends. He was repeatedly targeted, and mostly abused in coverage. 2016 brought about a bigger role for him because of a secondary that was ravaged by injuries. Hyde performed admirably. An eight-game stretch does not, however, erase the kind of player that the Packers should have learned that Hyde was over the stretch of the first four years of his career. In order to retain Hyde, the Packers would have had to pay him more money than what they let Casey Hayward walk away for just one season ago. Even if you remove Hayward’s outlier season in terms of interceptions, Hayward was always a better cornerback than Hyde. Hyde’s versatility, while useful is not worth the price that was ultimately paid to him from outside of the organization. The lack of an offer by the Packers proves the team felt the same way. By removing Hyde from the defense altogether, the Packers are almost forcing themselves to get faster in the secondary. They will need someone to replace all the things that Hyde did for them. They’ll likely find someone who is better athletically and with more speed. His play down the stretch turned into a big payday. Hyde should be commended for that. Without Hyde, the Packers may not have made the playoffs, let alone been one step from the Super Bowl. It can also be true that the defense was bad with Hyde on the field. It can also be true that Hyde is one of the main reasons the secondary was as poor as it was. Hyde was a limited player. His new contract is paying him as if he is a premium player. While the Packers technically got worse by losing Hyde’s versatility in the short run, it forces them to get better in the long run. For that reason along with several others, the Packers made the right call by letting Hyde walk. jc The Packers made the right decision letting him walk - I've talked before about the fact that when you have elite talent you don't pay to keep those mid roster role players. I don't, however, agree with the assessment of Hyde. I think he is limited by his lack of speed as an outside corner, but his physicality across the middle has made him an effective slot corner, and he played really well last year when asked to start as a safety. He is a really nice fit for this defense and I expect him to have a solid season. If anything I think he is a player whose versatility has hurt him throughout his time in Green Bay... because whenever they have had an injury in the secondary he has been the one moved around to plug the gap. I believe he will benefit greatly from having a regular spot at safety. He has graded out as solidly above average every year he has been in the league and I think that he is a very good scheme fit. Wouldn't surprise me to see him getting some league wide attention by mid season.
26CornerBlitz Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 I have them at like 20-25% ish so getting a little better odds is worth it. If they were 4:1 I would pass. I understand the logic and certainly hope you win some $$.
row_33 Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 if you guys are so optimistic then put your money where your mouth is. vegas is giving us 6-1 odds to make the playoffs. they are saying we are the 6th worst team in the NFL http://buffalonews.com/2017/07/10/dont-bet-bills-playoff-odds-sixth-worst-nfl/ Starting out with the only hope being a wild card spot makes it hard to make the playoffs. 8-8 isn't going to contend for the division, most likely....
BillnutinHouston Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 And there it is, that Unbridled TBD pre- preseason optimism Are you implying this is good or bad? I think as long as the losing doesn't take a heavy toll on your psyche, it's fine to be optimistic. I'm loving this thread.
ddaryl Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 If we don't make the playoffs then as far as I'm concerned it means McDermott is not all that and a bag of popcorn If McDermott is the next great coach he will find a way to get this team to the post season. We have the players what we need is the X's and O's
row_33 Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 Are you implying this is good or bad? I think as long as the losing doesn't take a heavy toll on your psyche, it's fine to be optimistic. I'm loving this thread. If you keep it to yourself that's okay. But if you have a regular poker game with NFL fans or you have in-laws who cheer for the Pats, best to keep it to yourself.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 ESPN must have liked your take H2o!25 NFL predictions through 2020: 13. The Bills' playoff drought will end.Maybe even this season. Buffalo is stronger on the lines than people give them credit for. Tyrod Taylor is better than you think he is. Sixteen games' worth of good health from Sammy Watkins and LeSean McCoy might be too much to ask, but if it's not, this is a wild-card contender under hungry and energetic first-year coach Sean McDermott.
#34fan Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 ESPN must have liked your take H2o! 25 NFL predictions through 2020: Hilarious how he says "Maybe even this season."
Buffalo Boy Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Are you implying this is good or bad? I think as long as the losing doesn't take a heavy toll on your psyche, it's fine to be optimistic. I'm loving this thread. It's that hopeful time of year and even I'm dreaming a little dream but...I swear there will be a " Here's why we can still make the playoffs thread" every week until we we can't even though the ship will have sailed at least a month earlier🤔 Edited July 12, 2017 by Buffalo Boy
stuvian Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 we can be assured that the organization will not be at war with itself. McD has his people in place at all football decision making positions.
wilcoam Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 I'd love to see our Bills surprise all the pundits and be a legit playoff team but I'm just not sure the talent on the back 7 D will get us there USA Today just came out today and ranked our secondary 4th worst in the NFL and our LB's 24/32 Not saying they are correct, just saying if they are close that ain't gonna get into the playoffs, or anything close to a top 5 or Top 10 D Nor does it suggest the revamping of our secondary paying dividends in 2017 jc
H2o Posted July 12, 2017 Author Posted July 12, 2017 ESPN must have liked your take H2o!25 NFL predictions through 2020: I would say the old cliche "great minds think alike", but this is ESPN we are talking about. They are definitely plagiarizing though. Lol
GunnerBill Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) I'd love to see our Bills surprise all the pundits and be a legit playoff team but I'm just not sure the talent on the back 7 D will get us there USA Today just came out today and ranked our secondary 4th worst in the NFL and our LB's 24/32 Not saying they are correct, just saying if they are close that ain't gonna get into the playoffs, or anything close to a top 5 or Top 10 D Nor does it suggest the revamping of our secondary paying dividends in 2017 jc While I disagree with you somewhat on Hyde, as explained above, I do share concerns about our back 7. I saw technique issues with Darby last year that worry me going forward. I hope he steps back up to 2015 form this year but that should not be taken as a given. I like Tre'Davious White but to expect him to step in and be as good as Gilmore (forget what the haters says he really is very good) in year 1 feels like a stretch and I think anything approaching starter calibre play out of Jordan Poyer at this stage is found money.... he is a complete question mark as there is so little NFL tape to go on. I also think our linebacking unit is still totally up in the air at this stage - who starts and in what positions I still couldn't call. Ragland probably the MIKE? Lorenzo the SAM? Hodges or Brown or Humber at the WILL? Question marks a plenty. But whilst all that should probably suggest the playoffs are a long shot - I point you to the 2016 Miami Dolphins. Their linebacking corps were possibly the worst in the entire league... certainly bottom 4 or 5.... Alonso was just about passable but the other two "starters" Paysinger and Jenkins (who were both allowed to leave this offseason) were absolutely terrible. Jenkins might be the worst player I watched in the NFL last season. Their defensive backfield was slightly better, though not much... and was certainly bottom 3rd of the league. And yet.... and yet.... they made the playoffs. An anomaly? Probably. But it doesn't necessarily follow that a bad back 7 will eliminate you from playoff contention. I share your view that the Bills are a longshot for the post season... but the 2016 Dolphins exist to prove that sometimes logic goes out of the window in a league where it really is who can make those 7 or 8 critical plays over the course of a season. Edited July 12, 2017 by GunnerBill
billieve420 Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 If we can start by not beating ourselves with dumb mistakes and penalties it will be a step in the right direction.
teef Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 Crazy man logic. Stats don't dictate reality, which is the Bills cannot make every throw on the field. Coupled with a complete rebuild of coaching and personnel, 4 wins will be an accomplishment. i hate it when people go this route. can you actually articulate why 4 wins would be an accomplishment?
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