Article on why 2017 passing game can make giant leap forward

[Noogie75]

Wow. Seriously, how old are you? You have to be a pretty young kid. What, like 12, 13?

 

Listen, for the 3rd time, nobody here cares about your I told you so's. Why do you think anyone gives a crap about it? You will most likely be banned again before you we even get to the end of this season anyway.

 

And I have never once said that I think Tyrod is the answer at QB. Only that he is the best option for this season. So, the only way you end up being right is if Cardale earns the starting job and plays better than Tyrod. Or goes somewhere else and becomes a better NFL starting QB than Tyrod is. Until then, you are not right about anything. You think Cardale is a better option than Tyrod, so until he proves he is you can't say jack ****.

 

Cardale never got benched by the Bills BTW, because he never even came close to earning the starting job in order to get benched. Tyrod's pay has nothing to do with him starting over Cardale. His play vs Cardale's play does. He was given that contract by Whaley anyway, so why would our new coach and GM feel obligated to start him? They didn't feel obligated to pick up Sammy's 5th year option or keep other players signed by Whaley. So why would it be different for Tyrod?

Tyrod is starting because his play has been by far the best on the roster since McDermott got here.

 

You just make it so easy for me, don't you...

 

I really am done with this conversation now. It is absolutely pointless.

[Noogie75]

You win ok now let see if TT is gonna live up to the hype. Like I said there is no excuses for Tyrod this year either. I love a hard schedule too. The only QB everyone likes because he is our best option to win. I will watch every single game. Hope he lasts the whole season. Ok I'm sorry but you just better be right because you are sure defending him like you're his agent. Hope he turns out. Prey he does.I'm gonna Guarantee you he fails. Mark my words. Your asking a guy that can't pass for 300 yards. Now your gonna ask him to throw 30 passes a game. Timing patterns, roll outs, stay in the pocket and deliver. I'm sure Belechick is saying this is too easy when he game plans against us. Dolphins are happy we make it easy to defend. WOW Atl, Denver, KC, Chargers, Panthers... TT will pass for 4000yds at 200 per game average. 30 tds. We make the playoffs. Ha ha ha sure gentleman sure....

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noogie75

[KermitMcDermott]

Some of y'all need to make a giant leap forward with your posting game, yo.

Edited July 21, 2017 by KermitMcDermott

[Noogie75]

Does "I think you're dreaming on the stats" mean that those stats would be good enough for you?

 

It's a simple yes or no question

 

Did you just quote and respond to yourself?

[Noogie75]

At least it's a start where I can't blame him. He is no good to me period. This the NFL your gonna have to beat people with the passsss. This is not the wing-T league Pop Warner. You will not win unless you can passsss the ball. Beane is not crazy. He was a QB himself he likes the 6'5" guys once again, the decision was made before he was hired. When the pads go on we'll see who's who. Now it's all spec anyways.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

6 more days

[Kirby Jackson]

At least it's a start where I can't blame him. He is no good to me period. This the NFL your gonna have to beat people with the passsss. This is not the wing-T league Pop Warner. You will not win unless you can passsss the ball. Beane is not crazy. He was a QB himself he likes the 6'5" guys once again, the decision was made before he was hired. When the pads go on we'll see who's who. Now it's all spec anyways.

So he can't win even though he's won more than he lost? Got it

 

This thread started with some interesting analysis. Now, it's a dumpster fire.

[oldmanfan]

Taylor is our QB. If you don't like that you have the option of not watching the games.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Good you are correct. Except 4th for Cardale. K did the QBs in front of him won a championship with Cardale on the Bench? Because it was the same team. They had Elliot, Bosa, and the rest of the squad. And the rook left Tn. To play in a weaker conference because he was not gonna play with that comp. Tyrod did he win a championship with plenty of starts. Now Cardale has not been given a chance. In pre season he ripped it up. Anticipated, pocket poise, cannon of an arm, drove the length of the field with what he had. Scored with the pocket collapsing. Ha if Tyrod could ever do that. I still watch that step into throw to the middle with a dart to Powell.

Ah, the old 'he did it in pre-season' bit. That's not where I expected this to go.

[Thurman#1]

He was incredibly clutch against Seattle. That throw to the woods on third and 20 something is a pass that is literally is clutch as you get. He got screwed by refs and many other things in that game.

 

He threw a touchdown pass on fourth down to Clay to go ahead against Miami with less than 90 seconds in the last game he played. Again, pretty damn clutch. And in that same game in overtime he made critical throws to extend A drive that should have been a game-winning drive before his offense of coordinator called one of the dumbest reverse plays to Reggie bush losing 8 yards after McCoy I lost 2 yards on first down. and Carpenter was still left with a very makeable field goal that he missed.

 

In the second game against new England he threw a gorgeous 50 yard bomb that hit Clay on the hands that he just couldn't bring in.

 

In the same game against new England he throws a beautiful 20 to 25 yard throws to Brandon Tate that he just flat out drops.

 

Against Pittsburgh on a third and fairly short he throws the ball to a wide-open Sammy, and Sammy drops the football. It was even ruled a catch. That's how wide open he was. I don't think the refs could believe that he dropped the ball. But he did and he knew it.

 

 

 

Was it really clutch in the Seattle game? It sure was a good overall game, but on that final drive on the second and six play with 1:09 left, he scrambles right and ends up running ... and misses a wide-open, and I mean nobody within ten to twelve yards. They send two guys on go routes down the middle, one on the right and one on the left and both in the middle third of the field. The guy on the right beats his man by a step or a step and a half. The one deep safety goes after him. The guy on the left, Woods, is dropped by his cover man, totally dropped seven or eight yards past the line of scrimmage and is all alone. In the deep middle third of the field.

 

Tyrod runs the ball for a four yard gain and Tyrod has nobody near him as he approaches the line of scrimmage near the numbers, but just misses Woods.

 

Did he play well that game? Yup. And you're right that that 3rd and 20 throw to Woods on the sideline was flat-out terrific. But he wasn't clutch. Had the chance to take the lead with a minute left and couldn't do it. Oh, and where was Woods again on the play when he was wide-open in the end zone? Oh yeah, the deep middle third of the field.

 

 

As for the 50 yard bomb to Clay against New England, it wasn't as good a throw as you're making it out to be. Clay was wide open with one guy six yards behind him and a safety seven or eight yards inside him and Tyrod threw the ball so as to stop Clay from running away from the safety. Clay had to flatten out his angle and it allowed the safety to get back in the play and bump Clay's legs just as Clay went for the ball which prevented him from getting his second arm around on the ball. If he'd made that catch it would have been sensational and Tyrod could have put it in a place where he wouldn't have had to make a terrific catch. It certainly wasn't a bad throw but it wasn't great by any means. Could've led him to open territory.

 

You point to drops? Can't be bothered to look at them, though calling the Clay play you noted above a drop was very debatable, but every QB deals with drops. It's part of the game. You can point to lots of very nice catches too, the Woods catch on the sideline that you reference above. That was a terrific catch. Sure there were some drops but you could point to any QB and cherrypick some plays where the same thing happened. It's part of the game.

 

You say, "He threw a touchdown pass on fourth down to Clay to go ahead against Miami with less than 90 seconds in the last game he played. Again, pretty damn clutch."

 

Hunh? The Bills last possession in that game ended with 4:09 left in the game. With a punt. And if you were talking about the first Miami game, he went, what, 4/13 in the 4th quarter? He was getting a lot of pressure, and he absolutely did have that final drive to at least make it closer but they had three or four drives in that 4th quarter that went nowhere. Clutch is overstating it.

 

Tyrod certainly shouldn't be blamed for all of Buffalo's problems last year. The whole team was bad except for the run game. But Tyrod deserves his share of the blame.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Bangarang]

This doesn't tell me much. He does all of those things. I could point to multiple plays for every one of your criteria that you set forth. My guess is you're going to say she doesn't do it enough. That's the easy way out for a lot of you. It's the old "eye test" thing.

 

Clearly OBD agrees he doesn't do these things enough as well considering his current contract. This is very much a prove it year for Tyrod. And you could look at almost every QB in the league, scrubs included, and find instances where they have performed well in those situations. The key is consistency which even you can agree hasn't been Tyrod's strength.

[C.Biscuit97]

See... these leaps to conclusions are apparently just inevitable here.

 

 

So silly...

No, it was just a silly comparison. Rivers and Brees are the CEOs of their teams and have to carry them every game. Tyrod's just to get the ball to McCoy, make some throws, & don't turn the ball over. Not comparable at all.

[BuffaloHokie13]

No, it was just a silly comparison. Rivers and Brees are the CEOs of their teams and have to carry them every game. Tyrod's just to get the ball to McCoy, make some throws, & don't turn the ball over. Not comparable at all.

I don't disagree. Unfortunately, both of them fail more than they succeed at this point.

[C.Biscuit97]

He was 5-1 against Miami and Florida State combined in college and the conference player of the year in the same conference as those teams!!!

 

We are at a point where just about everything you post is the exact opposite of the truth.

But isn't that kinda of the point? He did all that and was still a 6th round draft pick who was talked about possibly switching to defensive back in the NFL. He was under 60% passer in the NFL.

 

I've always said that Tyrod is already a success because he far succeed his NFL projections. But I think it's wrong to assume that in an offense that throws more, he will become a better NFL qb. I think we've seen his ceilings, which has been pretty average, which is fine. But I want a better ceiling.

[Kirby Jackson]

But isn't that kinda of the point? He did all that and was still a 6th round draft pick who was talked about possibly switching to defensive back in the NFL. He was under 60% passer in the NFL.

 

I've always said that Tyrod is already a success because he far succeed his NFL projections. But I think it's wrong to assume that in an offense that throws more, he will become a better NFL qb. I think we've seen his ceilings, which has been pretty average, which is fine. But I want a better ceiling.

The post was in response to "I grew up watching the U, FSU and Florida. He could have never played there. That's why I know talent." The response was to that. "Actually he shredded those teams and was voted the best player in their conference."

[GunnerBill]

The post was in response to "I grew up watching the U, FSU and Florida. He could have never played there. That's why I know talent." The response was to that. "Actually he shredded those teams and was voted the best player in their conference."

 

You were a good egg for engaging with that point in the first place Kirbs.... it struck me as a slightly bizarre ranty comment to begin with.

[John from Riverside]

At least it's a start where I can't blame him. He is no good to me period. This the NFL your gonna have to beat people with the passsss. This is not the wing-T league Pop Warner. You will not win unless you can passsss the ball. Beane is not crazy. He was a QB himself he likes the 6'5" guys once again, the decision was made before he was hired. When the pads go on we'll see who's who. Now it's all spec anyways.

You STILL havent answered my question

[transplantbillsfan]

 

 

Was it really clutch in the Seattle game? It sure was a good overall game, but on that final drive on the second and six play with 1:09 left, he scrambles right and ends up running ... and misses a wide-open, and I mean nobody within ten to twelve yards. They send two guys on go routes down the middle, one on the right and one on the left and both in the middle third of the field. The guy on the right beats his man by a step or a step and a half. The one deep safety goes after him. The guy on the left, Woods, is dropped by his cover man, totally dropped seven or eight yards past the line of scrimmage and is all alone. In the deep middle third of the field.

 

Tyrod runs the ball for a four yard gain and Tyrod has nobody near him as he approaches the line of scrimmage near the numbers, but just misses Woods.

 

Did he play well that game? Yup. And you're right that that 3rd and 20 throw to Woods on the sideline was flat-out terrific. But he wasn't clutch. Had the chance to take the lead with a minute left and couldn't do it. Oh, and where was Woods again on the play when he was wide-open in the end zone? Oh yeah, the deep middle third of the field.

 

 

As for the 50 yard bomb to Clay against New England, it wasn't as good a throw as you're making it out to be. Clay was wide open with one guy six yards behind him and a safety seven or eight yards inside him and Tyrod threw the ball so as to stop Clay from running away from the safety. Clay had to flatten out his angle and it allowed the safety to get back in the play and bump Clay's legs just as Clay went for the ball which prevented him from getting his second arm around on the ball. If he'd made that catch it would have been sensational and Tyrod could have put it in a place where he wouldn't have had to make a terrific catch. It certainly wasn't a bad throw but it wasn't great by any means. Could've led him to open territory.

 

You point to drops? Can't be bothered to look at them, though calling the Clay play you noted above a drop was very debatable, but every QB deals with drops. It's part of the game. You can point to lots of very nice catches too, the Woods catch on the sideline that you reference above. That was a terrific catch. Sure there were some drops but you could point to any QB and cherrypick some plays where the same thing happened. It's part of the game.

 

You say, "He threw a touchdown pass on fourth down to Clay to go ahead against Miami with less than 90 seconds in the last game he played. Again, pretty damn clutch."

 

Hunh? The Bills last possession in that game ended with 4:09 left in the game. With a punt. And if you were talking about the first Miami game, he went, what, 4/13 in the 4th quarter? He was getting a lot of pressure, and he absolutely did have that final drive to at least make it closer but they had three or four drives in that 4th quarter that went nowhere. Clutch is overstating it.

 

Tyrod certainly shouldn't be blamed for all of Buffalo's problems last year. The whole team was bad except for the run game. But Tyrod deserves his share of the blame.

Thurm, you obviously know that was a typo on my part. And that's my bad. Less than 90 seconds in the fourth quarter on that touchdown to Clay. And it should've been less than 90 seconds in the game, but racks and the defense of course just let him down.

 

I'm sorry, you're just wrong about that Clay pass against New England. It would have been a great catch. But it's an NFL catch. And it was an even better throw. Clay just couldn't track the football. I've watch that played many many times at this point. I have still images on my computer of that play with the ball hitting him and his finger. But Clay just couldn't track the ball and get his hands in the right place.

 

And you're right, all QBs have their players drop footballs. And there are websites that track drops. The problem is, those 13 or 14 or whatever they are drops don't match up with what I think most of us sauce should have been caught passes. Maybe somewhere labeled as passes defense. Maybe some more just labeled as in completions. But most of those charts use the NFL official game log in order to chart of them. But I know from having gone through those things many many times, they aren't always very accurate.

 

Cian Fahey watched every single snap and pass and tracked all of them and generated a number of really interesting stats based on watching all of the quarterbacks in the NFL, not just one of them. And yes, his eyes are subjectivize. But at least they are subjectivize that watched every single quarterback, not just one. That's been your major flaw in more than one of your arguments about Taylor. You need to compare, not just watch Taylor and come up with your own arbitrary a valuation based on whatever your own expectations are. Anyway, regarding those "drops" what he found was that Taylor's receivers had the fourth highest "failed reception" percentage among all quarterbacks in the NFL. And they had the 20th highest "created reception" percentage in the NFL. You want to dismiss his findings, that's fine. Go come up with your own numbers. Watch all the plays for all the quarterbacks and to get back to me with what you find. I'll trust your integrity. This isn't me saying that we should trust the findings of one guy completely. But I'll tell you this, without even looking at those findings from Fahey, it sure seemed like Taylor's receivers were not doing him any favors in 2016.

 

Just drop this middle third Crusade already. It's ridiculous. And I'm not the only one here who's responded to you with that sentiment. Still haven't found a single reference to the middle third of the field made by a coach or NFL GM or executive or probably even an NFL player, have you? Yeah, that's because NFL coaches and players don't divide the field up and thirds The way random arrogant message board guy does. I give you actual evidence of the field being divided in the fifths and you just yuck it up. That's to be expected from you since you just like to ignore reality. But whatever, you'll ignore or go off on a tangent or do something rather than just admit that you're wrong since you're incapable of doing that.

Clearly OBD agrees he doesn't do these things enough as well considering his current contract. This is very much a prove it year for Tyrod. And you could look at almost every QB in the league, scrubs included, and find instances where they have performed well in those situations. The key is consistency which even you can agree hasn't been Tyrod's strength.

I endorse this post.

No, it was just a silly comparison. Rivers and Brees are the CEOs of their teams and have to carry them every game. Tyrod's just to get the ball to McCoy, make some throws, & don't turn the ball over. Not comparable at all.

You're still being silly.

 

But whatever I grow tired of people who quibble with even bringing a quarterback's name into the same sentence as another quarterback. What a cliché and a bit of a weak out to a discussion.

 

Brees and Rivers are clearly better quarterbacks than Taylor. and you're being silly for even implying that I am saying Taylor is as good as they are. It's silliness at its sloppiest.

Edited July 21, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[wiskibreth]

Tyrod was supposed to have a WR, TE, RB "camp" in Atlanta during the off-season. Wonder if that ever happened?..

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/14/pft-preseason-power-rankings-no-23-buffalo-bills/

[BuffaloHokie13]

Tyrod was supposed to have a WR, TE, RB "camp" in Atlanta during the off-season. Wonder if that ever happened?..

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/14/pft-preseason-power-rankings-no-23-buffalo-bills/

It did.