Article on why 2017 passing game can make giant leap forward

[Noogie75]

When has it happened in the two years. Jacksonville game this year. Wow Jacksonville. Tennessee wow. I saw what happened with K.C. he couldn't move the ball the second half. We lost. Defense ha three turn over that game and made them punt a few times. Yes, they got tired of being on the field toward the end. Could TT extended a few drives. Some were third and 2. That is what I mean. Seattle and Pitt. We could have rallied back as I before mentioned. If TT did his job and finished. Now the KC game who's fault was it on offense? Sammy had over 100 yards. Shady had over 100 yards combined. Who's fault." Nnnooo, but it wasn't TT"

[John from Riverside]

When has it happened in the two years. Jacksonville game this year. Wow Jacksonville. Tennessee wow. I saw what happened with K.C. he couldn't move the ball the second half. We lost. Defense ha three turn over that game and made them punt a few times. Yes, they got tired of being on the field toward the end. Could TT extended a few drives. Some were third and 2. That is what I mean. Seattle and Pitt. We could have rallied back as I before mentioned. If TT did his job and finished. Now the KC game who's fault was it on offense? Sammy had over 100 yards. Shady had over 100 yards combined. Who's fault." Nnnooo, but it wasn't TT"

wins are losses are a TEAM thing

 

but...if your looking to place blame.....make sure your putting it in the right place sir (your not)

[Noogie75]

I read it. Is this one of those random tangent posts complaining in general about how the team needs to win before you can say anything at all about it?

 

You made that comment in a thread about Taylor. And it was after some discussion about stats regarding Taylor. Sure seemed like you were upset about people bringing in stats and you wanted to bring your own two eyes into play.

 

Yes, I read your post. Maybe you just needed to vent. But it was at best a tangent to the topic being discussed. Or at worst, It was a horrible conclusion about QBs and wins. I'm sorry for thinking the worst of you. Clearly I was misguided and should have just realize you needed to vent about the team the way so many Bills fans need to.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

This doesn't tell me much. He does all of those things. I could point to multiple plays for every one of your criteria that you set forth. My guess is you're going to say she doesn't do it enough. That's the easy way out for a lot of you. It's the old "eye test" thing.

 

How often does he need to do these things, 100% of the time? 75% of the time? 50% of the time?

 

If you truly believe that even the greatest quarterbacks of all time do those things 100% of the time let's just end this conversation because it's ridiculous belief.

 

 

So, instead, give me your tangible criteria that we can see and somehow quantify that will get you behind the Buffalo Bills starting quarterback for 2018 QB if he continues with that job.

Ummm... yes? Are you trying to verify that I posted that or are you trying to have a conversation? Yes, I posted that. Conversation to follow?

 

Dude, I am no technological savant, but I understand how to use the "function on the message board. It's really not that hard. Please take all of us up on that offer to help

[Noogie75]

Because they are trying to convince me of stats which are ok for a QB that is,and are meaningless​ unless you are making your team win. We were 9-7 before he got here. Supposedly he was an upgrade over Orton. 8-8 and 7-9. This was with a sorry o. I know the defense. Well I remember the Vikings game that their offense killed our defense but at the end of the game. We rallied and score to win the game. That is finishing. Without excuses about what you don't have. TT had shady, Sammy, Williams a good o-line last year. Now what happened???

wins are losses are a TEAM thing

 

but...if your looking to place blame.....make sure your putting it in the right place sir (your not)

Who's fault was it then?

[transplantbillsfan]

When has it happened in the two years. Jacksonville game this year. Wow Jacksonville. Tennessee wow. I saw what happened with K.C. he couldn't move the ball the second half. We lost. Defense ha three turn over that game and made them punt a few times. Yes, they got tired of being on the field toward the end. Could TT extended a few drives. Some were third and 2. That is what I mean. Seattle and Pitt. We could have rallied back as I before mentioned. If TT did his job and finished. Now the KC game who's fault was it on offense? Sammy had over 100 yards. Shady had over 100 yards combined. Who's fault." Nnnooo, but it wasn't TT"

You're just talking bubbles now. Tell me specifically what it is he needs to do. He made place in the clutch this year.

 

He was incredibly clutch against Seattle. That throw to the woods on third and 20 something is a pass that is literally is clutch as you get. He got screwed by refs and many other things in that game.

 

He threw a touchdown pass on fourth down to Clay to go ahead against Miami with less than 90 seconds in the last game he played. Again, pretty damn clutch. And in that same game in overtime he made critical throws to extend A drive that should have been a game-winning drive before his offense of coordinator called one of the dumbest reverse plays to Reggie bush losing 8 yards after McCoy I lost 2 yards on first down. and Carpenter was still left with a very makeable field goal that he missed.

 

In the second game against new England he threw a gorgeous 50 yard bomb that hit Clay on the hands that he just couldn't bring in.

 

In the same game against new England he throws a beautiful 20 to 25 yard throws to Brandon Tate that he just flat out drops.

 

Against Pittsburgh on a third and fairly short he throws the ball to a wide-open Sammy, and Sammy drops the football. It was even ruled a catch. That's how wide open he was. I don't think the refs could believe that he dropped the ball. But he did and he knew it.

 

 

 

I can point out please and instances where he does the things that you state. What needs to happen? 4000 yards passing with 30 TDs and less than 10 and interceptions? Or are you tying everything to wins and losses? And if that's the case, what happens if our defense becomes elite but Taylor please even worse than he did in 2016? The team played well and made the playoffs and maybe even wins A game or two.

 

 

The truth is I think that if Taylor has a good season with over 4000 yards passing, around 30 passing touchdowns and roughly 10 interceptions, he will inevitably be back in Buffalo. At that point, you know that he will also add roughly 500 yards rushing and somewhere between two and six rushing touchdowns. And that's a pretty damn good season for a quarterback. I expect if that's his season, the record will follow, and this team will be in the playoffs. If they aren't, then something went down hill with the coaching staff and or the defense and or the special teams. But Taylor will still be back.

[Noogie75]

You're just talking bubbles now. Tell me specifically what it is he needs to do. He made place in the clutch this year.

 

He was incredibly clutch against Seattle. That throw to the woods on third and 20 something is a pass that is literally is clutch as you get. He got screwed by refs and many other things in that game.

 

He threw a touchdown pass on fourth down to Clay to go ahead against Miami with less than 90 seconds in the last game he played. Again, pretty damn clutch. And in that same game in overtime he made critical throws to extend A drive that should have been a game-winning drive before his offense of coordinator called one of the dumbest reverse plays to Reggie bush losing 8 yards after McCoy I lost 2 yards on first down. and Carpenter was still left with a very makeable field goal that he missed.

 

In the second game against new England he threw a gorgeous 50 yard bomb that hit Clay on the hands that he just couldn't bring in.

 

In the same game against new England he throws a beautiful 20 to 25 yard throws to Brandon Tate that he just flat out drops.

 

Against Pittsburgh on a third and fairly short he throws the ball to a wide-open Sammy, and Sammy drops the football. It was even ruled a catch. That's how wide open he was. I don't think the refs could believe that he dropped the ball. But he did and he knew it.

 

 

 

I can point out please and instances where he does the things that you state. What needs to happen? 4000 yards passing with 30 TDs and less than 10 and interceptions? Or are you tying everything to wins and losses? And if that's the case, what happens if our defense becomes elite but Taylor please even worse than he did in 2016? The team played well and made the playoffs and maybe even wins A game or two.

 

 

The truth is I think that if Taylor has a good season with over 4000 yards passing, around 30 passing touchdowns and roughly 10 interceptions, he will inevitably be back in Buffalo. At that point, you know that he will also add roughly 500 yards rushing and somewhere between two and six rushing touchdowns. And that's a pretty damn good season for a quarterback. I expect if that's his season, the record will follow, and this team will be in the playoffs. If they aren't, then something went down hill with the coaching staff and or the defense and or the special teams. But Taylor will still be back.

[BillsFan4]

Yes, that is true they did bench him. Now the year he came out supposedly the same team was there playing - Cardale right? Did they win a championship? When he played he won and they won. Now were the guys in front of him better? Did they get drafted to play QB? That's right suplament draft. With three games he got drafted 4th round. Tyrod and the rook played more and where did they get drafted? Answer me now because I wanna hear this......

Cardale played more than 3 games in college... Now I am honestly wondering if you even watched much of Cardale's college career if you think he only played 3 total games.

 

As far as answering you now, I am not really 100% sure what you're even asking me. Maybe try writing it in a coherent sentence structure.

 

But I'll give it a try -

 

Were what guys in front of him better? JT Barrett and Braxton Miller at Ohio State? Yes, they were. That's why they were ahead of him on the depth chart. Look up their stats, watch some Ohio St games. They were better.

Cardale only played those 3 games in 2014 because the guys in front of him got hurt, not because he legitimately won the starting job. Those guys in front of him were the ones that helped win a whole ton of games during the season to get Ohio St to the championship in the first place.

 

Were they drafted to play QB? Well, Braxton Miller switched to WR in his last year in college (2015) because he had 2 shoulder surgeries and could no longer play QB anymore.

 

JT Barrett is returning this year for his senior season of college football, so no has not entered the draft yet therefore he obviously couldn't have been drafted. But yes, he will be drafted to play QB in the 2018 draft.

 

And what supplemental draft are you referring to? Braxton Miller was taken in the 3rd round of the regular 2016 draft. There were not even any players drafted in the 2016 supplemental draft... and again Barrett hasn't entered the draft yet.

 

 

As far as where Tyrod and Peterman were drafted, one in the 6th and the other in the 5th. But so what? What's your point? It doesn't mean he is a better QB because of draft position. Doug Whaley once took EJ Manuel in the 1st round, and Tyrod was still better than him. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Must mean that Cardale is better than him too, since he went in the 4th right?

You're talking a whole 30-40 spot different in the draft between Cardale and Tyrod/Peterman. That's not at all significant when it comes to the later rounds.

 

But Both Tyrod and Nate Peterman were better college QBs than Cardale. IMO Whaley reached on Cardale because all the other QBs he wanted were off the board and he had an extra comp pick, so he took a gamble on a raw QB to try and develop. So far from all accounts he hasn't shown much development.

[#34fan]

You think Cardale Jones is better than Tyrod (and that's only 2 of your many terrible football takes). That shows that you have no idea how to evaluate football. If you want someone to actually take your supposed football knowledge seriously, you have to first show that you actually possess some football knowledge. Until then you're just talking out your ass dude.

 

 

Ok, I have a question for you - if Tyrod is as terrible a QB as you say he is, how come your boy Cardale has not been able to beat him out for the starting job? If Cardale is so much better, shouldn't he easily take the starting job from Tyrod? Cardale must be pretty terrible himself if he can't beat out the terrible Tyrod, no?

 

Why did Cardale get benched in college if he's so great? Why was the starting job taken away from him? Tyrod never lost his starting job in college...

 

A whole lot of junk NFL QB's didn't get benched in college... It's absolutely meaningless... As a 3rd-stringer Jones was never supposed to see the field during the 2014-2015 .. Still, he performed when his number got

 

called... Once Jones' competition got healthy, Meyer had QB options other coaches could only dream of... How much college FB do you even watch? .. TT's biggest comp at Va Tech was Sean Glennon... A guy

 

who would turn out to be pro BUM... TT was a great fit for Beamer-ball... In fact, He STILL is... I just wish we had the murderous special teams and defenses Frank Beamer had in the 90's and early 2000's...

Edited July 21, 2017 by #34fan

[Noogie75]

I think you are dreaming on the stats. Refs are part of the game. And why did he throw a critical pick in the Pitt game. Why was RW was mad at him? Sammy " our passing game needs to get better. At least Sammy will be happy next year he... Is gone like Woods and Hogan. A receiver will not shine with a lousy QB. Like the rest, Sammy will get a huge pay check with a better QB. Thanks to Tyrod. All of our quality receivers are gone. But it's not TT.

[BillsFan4]

A whole lot of junk NFL QB's didn't get benched in college... It's absolutely meaningless... As a 3rd-stringer Jones was never supposed to see the field during the 2014-2015 .. Still, he performed when his number got

 

called... Once Jones' competition got healthy, Meyer had QB options other coaches could only dream of... How much college FB do you even watch? .. TT's biggest comp at Va Tech was Sean Glennon... A guy

 

who would turn out to be pro BUM... TT was a great fit for Beamer-ball... In fact, He STILL is... I just wish we had the murderous special teams and defenses Frank Beamer had in the 90's and early 2000's...

Do you think Cardale Jones is a better QB than Tyrod and if so why hasn't he taken the starting job from Tyrod yet? Why is he moving down the depth chart instea of up it? That was the whole point of my statement. Noogie also implied that Cardale was better than the guys in front of him at Ohio St. which is why I brought up the benching. Edited July 21, 2017 by BillsFan4

[Noogie75]

Cardale played more than 3 games in college... Now I am honestly wondering if you even watched much of Cardale's college career if you think he only played 3 total games.

 

As far as answering you now, I am not really 100% sure what you're even asking me. Maybe try writing it in a coherent sentence structure.

 

But I'll give it a try -

 

Were what guys in front of him better? JT Barrett and Braxton Miller at Ohio State? Yes, they were. That's why they were ahead of him on the depth chart. Look up their stats, watch some Ohio St games. They were better.

Cardale only played those 3 games in 2014 because the guys in front of him got hurt, not because he legitimately won the starting job. Those guys in front of him were the ones that helped win a whole ton of games during the season to get Ohio St to the championship in the first place.

 

Were they drafted to play QB? Well, Braxton Miller switched to WR in his last year in college (2015) because he had 2 shoulder surgeries and could no longer play QB anymore.

 

JT Barrett is returning this year for his senior season of college football, so no has not entered the draft yet therefore he obviously couldn't have been drafted. But yes, he will be drafted to play QB in the 2018 draft.

 

And what supplemental draft are you referring to? Braxton Miller was taken in the 3rd round of the regular 2016 draft. There were not even any players drafted in the 2016 supplemental draft... and again Barrett hasn't entered the draft yet.

 

 

As far as where Tyrod and Peterman were drafted, one in the 6th and the other in the 5th. But so what? What's your point? It doesn't mean he is a better QB because of draft position. Doug Whaley once took EJ Manuel in the 1st round, and Tyrod was still better than him. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Must mean that Cardale is better than him too, since he went in the 4th right?

You're talking a whole 30-40 spot different in the draft between Cardale and Tyrod/Peterman. That's not at all significant when it comes to the later rounds.

 

But Both Tyrod and Nate Peterman were better college QBs than Cardale. IMO Whaley reached on Cardale because all the other QBs he wanted were off the board and he had an extra comp pick, so he took a gamble on a raw QB to try and develop. So far from all accounts he hasn't shown much development.

[BillsFan4]

 

Cardale played more than 3 games in college... Now I am honestly wondering if you even watched much of Cardale's college career if you think he only played 3 total games.

As far as answering you now, I am not really 100% sure what you're even asking me. Maybe try writing it in a coherent sentence structure.

But I'll give it a try -

Were what guys in front of him better? JT Barrett and Braxton Miller at Ohio State? Yes, they were. That's why they were ahead of him on the depth chart. Look up their stats, watch some Ohio St games. They were better.

Cardale only played those 3 games in 2014 because the guys in front of him got hurt, not because he legitimately won the starting job. Those guys in front of him were the ones that helped win a whole ton of games during the season to get Ohio St to the championship in the first place.

Were they drafted to play QB? Well, Braxton Miller switched to WR in his last year in college (2015) because he had 2 shoulder surgeries and could no longer play QB anymore.

JT Barrett is returning this year for his senior season of college football, so no has not entered the draft yet therefore he obviously couldn't have been drafted. But yes, he will be drafted to play QB in the 2018 draft.

And what supplemental draft are you referring to? Braxton Miller was taken in the 3rd round of the regular 2016 draft. There were not even any players drafted in the 2016 supplemental draft... and again Barrett hasn't entered the draft yet.

As far as where Tyrod and Peterman were drafted, one in the 6th and the other in the 5th. But so what? What's your point? It doesn't mean he is a better QB because of draft position. Doug Whaley once took EJ Manuel in the 1st round, and Tyrod was still better than him. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Must mean that Cardale is better than him too, since he went in the 4th right?

You're talking a whole 30-40 spot different in the draft between Cardale and Tyrod/Peterman. That's not at all significant when it comes to the later rounds.

But Both Tyrod and Nate Peterman were better college QBs than Cardale. IMO Whaley reached on Cardale because all the other QBs he wanted were off the board and he had an extra comp pick, so he took a gamble on a raw QB to try and develop. So far from all accounts he hasn't shown much development.

Very informative response. Edited July 21, 2017 by BillsFan4

[Noogie75]

Good you are correct. Except 4th for Cardale. K did the QBs in front of him won a championship with Cardale on the Bench? Because it was the same team. They had Elliot, Bosa, and the rest of the squad. And the rook left Tn. To play in a weaker conference because he was not gonna play with that comp. Tyrod did he win a championship with plenty of starts. Now Cardale has not been given a chance. In pre season he ripped it up. Anticipated, pocket poise, cannon of an arm, drove the length of the field with what he had. Scored with the pocket collapsing. Ha if Tyrod could ever do that. I still watch that step into throw to the middle with a dart to Powell.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noogie75

[#34fan]

Do you think Cardale Jones is a better QB than Tyrod and if so why hasn't he taken the starting job from Tyrod yet? Why is he moving down the depth chart instea of up it? That was the whole point of my statement. Noogie also implied that Cardale was better than the guys in front of him at Ohio St. which is why I brought up the benching.

 

At the moment TT is the most complete QB on our roster... As the veteran, He SHOULD be... I take issue with Cardale's college experience being held against him.... Getting benched is NOT that big of a deal.. I remember

 

TT getting benched for Sean Glennon in one game, because he stunk it up!! ... Even Nate Peterman got benched permanently for Josh Dobbs at TENN!... Getting Benched happens all the time at the college level,

 

and it doesn't mean d__k...

Edited July 21, 2017 by #34fan

[Noogie75]

 

Cardale played more than 3 games in college... Now I am honestly wondering if you even watched much of Cardale's college career if you think he only played 3 total games.

 

As far as answering you now, I am not really 100% sure what you're even asking me. Maybe try writing it in a coherent sentence structure.

 

But I'll give it a try -

 

Were what guys in front of him better? JT Barrett and Braxton Miller at Ohio State? Yes, they were. That's why they were ahead of him on the depth chart. Look up their stats, watch some Ohio St games. They were better.

Cardale only played those 3 games in 2014 because the guys in front of him got hurt, not because he legitimately won the starting job. Those guys in front of him were the ones that helped win a whole ton of games during the season to get Ohio St to the championship in the first place.

 

Were they drafted to play QB? Well, Braxton Miller switched to WR in his last year in college (2015) because he had 2 shoulder surgeries and could no longer play QB anymore.

 

JT Barrett is returning this year for his senior season of college football, so no has not entered the draft yet therefore he obviously couldn't have been drafted. But yes, he will be drafted to play QB in the 2018 draft.

 

And what supplemental draft are you referring to? Braxton Miller was taken in the 3rd round of the regular 2016 draft. There were not even any players drafted in the 2016 supplemental draft... and again Barrett hasn't entered the draft yet.

 

 

As far as where Tyrod and Peterman were drafted, one in the 6th and the other in the 5th. But so what? What's your point? It doesn't mean he is a better QB because of draft position. Doug Whaley once took EJ Manuel in the 1st round, and Tyrod was still better than him. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Must mean that Cardale is better than him too, since he went in the 4th right?

You're talking a whole 30-40 spot different in the draft between Cardale and Tyrod/Peterman. That's not at all significant when it comes to the later rounds.

 

But Both Tyrod and Nate Peterman were better college QBs than Cardale. IMO Whaley reached on Cardale because all the other QBs he wanted were off the board and he had an extra comp pick, so he took a gamble on a raw QB to try and develop. So far from all accounts he hasn't shown much development.

By the way you are talking about better.Good no excuses for Garret let's see Ohio State win it without Cardale. Myers has all of his recruits. Plus Garret. Let's see what up. So you can think about what you gonna tell me if they don't win it this year. Without Cardale. So I can tell you like Mav Albert " facial".

By the way you are talking about better.Good no excuses for Garret let's see Ohio State win it without Cardale. Myers has all of his recruits. Plus Garret. Let's see what up. So you can think about what you gonna tell me if they don't win it this year. Without Cardale. So I can tell you like Mav Albert " facial".

Remember last year when Cardale was on the bench.

[GunnerBill]

 

He was basically our 2nd best player last year. We had a lot of talented players under-perform.

By what metric?

[Noogie75]

By the way like I mentioned Myers could had only won with other coaches recruits anyways. Example all of Tebow's class was recruited by Ron Zook. Before he left. After Tebow, Hernandez and the bunch left he lost a lot of games. Now at Ohio State he won with mostly Trussel recruits like Cardale. So it wasn't his recruit so he did him like that. Look at Cam when he was at Florida. Benched for Tebow, who was better??? It's political sometimes.

Do you think Cardale Jones is a better QB than Tyrod and if so why hasn't he taken the starting job from Tyrod yet? Why is he moving down the depth chart instea of up it? That was the whole point of my statement. Noogie also implied that Cardale was better than the guys in front of him at Ohio St. which is why I brought up the benching.

Because they are paying him more money he has to start so they won't look bad. And everyone is riding and banking on TT. Like they did Fitz. What happened? it set us back. Once again y'all gonna get your way. But don't cry wolf when I laugh at y'all TT backers. I'mma be like you can't haaang.

It's gonna be fun when the better guy is playing and we lose. Both Bills and at Ohio State. So you better be right. In both places Cardale got benched. I will be laughing hard in about two months. When the Bukeyes lose without Cardale. And we lose with TT. You just make it easy for me don't you.

[transplantbillsfan]

I think you are dreaming on the stats. Refs are part of the game. And why did he throw a critical pick in the Pitt game. Why was RW was mad at him? Sammy " our passing game needs to get better. At least Sammy will be happy next year he... Is gone like Woods and Hogan. A receiver will not shine with a lousy QB. Like the rest, Sammy will get a huge pay check with a better QB. Thanks to Tyrod. All of our quality receivers are gone. But it's not TT.

Does "I think you're dreaming on the stats" mean that those stats would be good enough for you?

 

It's a simple yes or no question

Remember last year when Cardale was on the bench.

Did you just quote and respond to yourself?

[BillsFan4]

Because they are paying him more money he has to start so they won't look bad. And everyone is riding and banking on TT. Like they did Fitz. What happened? it set us back. Once again y'all gonna get your way. But don't cry wolf when I laugh at y'all TT backers. I'mma be like you can't haaang.It's gonna be fun when the better guy is playing and we lose. Both Bills and at Ohio State. So you better be right. In both places Cardale got benched. I will be laughing hard in about two months. When the Bukeyes lose without Cardale. And we lose with TT. You just make it easy for me don't you.

Wow. Seriously, how old are you? You have to be a pretty young kid. What, like 12, 13?

 

Listen, for the 3rd time, nobody here cares about your I told you so's. Why do you think anyone gives a crap about it? You will most likely be banned again before you we even get to the end of this season anyway.

 

And I have never once said that I think Tyrod is the answer at QB. Only that he is the best option for this season. So, the only way you end up being right is if Cardale earns the starting job and plays better than Tyrod. Or goes somewhere else and becomes a better NFL starting QB than Tyrod is. Until then, you are not right about anything. You think Cardale is a better option than Tyrod, so until he proves he is you can't say jack ****.

 

Cardale never got benched by the Bills BTW, because he never even came close to earning the starting job in order to get benched. Tyrod's pay has nothing to do with him starting over Cardale. His play vs Cardale's play does. He was given that contract by Whaley anyway, so why would our new coach and GM feel obligated to start him? They didn't feel obligated to pick up Sammy's 5th year option or keep other players signed by Whaley. So why would it be different for Tyrod?

Tyrod is starting because his play has been by far the best on the roster since McDermott got here.

 

You just make it so easy for me, don't you...

 

I really am done with this conversation now. It is absolutely pointless.

Edited July 21, 2017 by BillsFan4