Dumb Carucci column...assessing QB position

[JM2009]

Offense vs playoff teams: 25.0 ppg

Defense vs playoff teams: 33.1 ppg

 

Offense vs playoff teams: 25.0 ppg

Defense vs playoff teams: 33.1 ppg

 

So we have a QB that could get this team to the playoffs with a better defense and ST and fewer injuries. He is the best we have right now.The few with an agenda or whatever they are doing, want better-even though better is not available for 2017. Instead of building the team up to work with the QB we have, that's not good enough for the few.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

John, surely you realize this isn't even close to being 100% fact. I'm willing to bet at least a handful of teams would be interested in Taylor as a starter, right now, for the same contract the Bills are paying. The question still up for debate is whether Taylor is a long-term option. You've made your decision; many others have not. I don't even care whether Taylor is the long-term option, because that's not what drew my ire regarding Vic's dumb column.

You're also guessing on other team's interests as well.

 

We will have no real answer either way. But I think Tyrod is thought of more highly by Bills fans than NFL executives and coaches. He plays a completely different style than the one most efficient towards winning.

Offense vs playoff teams: 25.0 ppg

Defense vs playoff teams: 33.1 ppg

 

So we have a QB that could get this team to the playoffs with a better defense and ST and fewer injuries. He is the best we have right now.The few with an agenda or whatever they are doing, want better-even though better is not available for 2017. Instead of building the team up to work with the QB we have, that's not good enough for the few.

There are so many other factors in blindly posting scoring averages. For example, what did those garbage time tds against the Pats really do?

 

Tyrod is .500 type qb who needs a lot around him to make the playoffs. You can do worse but I and other posters don't think he moves the needle enough. He is basically a different version of Fitz. They are fine but ultimately not good enough without a ton around them.

[JM2009]

You're also guessing on other team's interests as well.

 

We will have no real answer either way. But I think Tyrod is thought of more highly by Bills fans than NFL executives and coaches. He plays a completely different style than the one most efficient towards winning.

 

There are so many other factors in blindly posting scoring averages. For example, what did those garbage time tds against the Pats really do?

 

Tyrod is .500 type qb who needs a lot around him to make the playoffs. You can do worse but I and other posters don't think he moves the needle enough. He is basically a different version of Fitz. They are fine but ultimately not good enough without a ton around them.

Not turning the ball over is not efficient and not part of winning. ok

You're also guessing on other team's interests as well.

 

We will have no real answer either way. But I think Tyrod is thought of more highly by Bills fans than NFL executives and coaches. He plays a completely different style than the one most efficient towards winning.

 

There are so many other factors in blindly posting scoring averages. For example, what did those garbage time tds against the Pats really do?

 

Tyrod is .500 type qb who needs a lot around him to make the playoffs. You can do worse but I and other posters don't think he moves the needle enough. He is basically a different version of Fitz. They are fine but ultimately not good enough without a ton around them.

TT is thought of more highly around the league than from a few in his own fan base. Saying he is another Fitz, not putting most of 2016 on the defense and coaching, come on. I said this roster is better without EJ, and you had to find a link of how he is doing in minicamp-why?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

You're also guessing on other team's interests as well.

 

We will have no real answer either way. But I think Tyrod is thought of more highly by Bills fans than NFL executives and coaches. He plays a completely different style than the one most efficient towards winning.

 

There are so many other factors in blindly posting scoring averages. For example, what did those garbage time tds against the Pats really do?

 

Tyrod is .500 type qb who needs a lot around him to make the playoffs. You can do worse but I and other posters don't think he moves the needle enough. He is basically a different version of Fitz. They are fine but ultimately not good enough without a ton around them.

The Bizarro Fitz,

 

TT broke Fitz's rushing record while Fitz passed too much and had a high INT rate, TT throws too little and has a low INT rate.

What was missed is the analysis of those 2 #'s

 

To defeat Playoff Teams the Bills need to keep pace in the passing game and score 35 or more points.

Edited June 27, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[JohnC]

 

John, surely you realize this isn't even close to being 100% fact. I'm willing to bet at least a handful of teams would be interested in Taylor as a starter, right now, for the same contract the Bills are paying. The question still up for debate is whether Taylor is a long-term option. You've made your decision; many others have not. I don't even care whether Taylor is the long-term option, because that's not what drew my ire regarding Vic's dumb column.

You and many others continue to make the argument that he was an attractive qb option for a number of qb starved teams. The reality is that when he had the opportunity to pursue other options no team was interested in him at his former salary or even at a lower salary rate. The point is frequently made that he couldn't check out the market because he was contractually obligated to the Bills. That is a naive response because there was always a behind the curtain way through his agent to determine what other teams were interested in him and at what price range. No team showed an interest in him as a starter.

 

The stark reality is he took a salary cut with a shorter term because he had no other offers. If you believe that there is still potential for him, even with his glaring limitations, then so be it. What I am saying in a declarative manner is that when he had an opportunity to avail himself to the market there were no takers. What does that tell you?

 

The issue for me isn't whether TT can be a starter for the Bills because he is currently the designated starter. The issue for me is whether as a starter he is good enough. I am comfortable in saying no.

Edited June 27, 2017 by JohnC

[BuffaloHokie13]

The Bizarro Fitz,

 

TT broke Fitz's rushing record while Fitz passed too much and had a high INT rate, TT throws too little and has a low INT rate.

In 2016, Fitz's INT% (4.2) was higher than Tyrod's TD% (3.9), which was higher than Fitz's TD% (3.0), which was higher than Tyrod's INT% (1.4)

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

In 2016, Fitz's INT% (4.2) was higher than Tyrod's TD% (3.9), which was higher than Fitz's TD% (3.0), which was higher than Tyrod's INT% (1.4)

Ok now I'm thinking Who's on First

[section122]

Really good post. I think people might be surprised at how good Roman's offense was for Tyrod. People in SF started blaming Roman & Harbaugh for Kaepernick's regression as a qb. Well, they left and CK struggled even more.

 

But I'd love to be surprised to see Tyrod's strengths are as a qb are quick timing routes. I don't see that but who knows.

 

 

 

I think the key here is THEY left. Harbaugh imo is responsible for the light turning on for Alex Smith. CK was not at all set up for success with the dumpster fire that SF turned into. They are on their 4th HC in 4 years. I don't think CK is great but I also don't think he really got a fair shot once Harbaugh moved on. Roman has long been praised for his run schemes and received criticism for his pass game design. It certainly may be on the QBs he had to work with but I don't think it is an airtight case to say so.

 

You can "what if" yourself until you are exhausted. Last year's erratic defense had little bearing on how he played. He is not a franchise qb and will never be. He could have put himself on the market this offseason. He didn't. Instead he took a pay cut and restructured his contract because no other team was interested in him as a starter.

 

 

You and many others continue to make the argument that he was an attractive qb option for a number of qb starved teams. The reality is that when he had the opportunity to pursue other options no team was interested in him at his former salary or even at a lower salary rate. The point is frequently made that he couldn't check out the market because he was contractually obligated to the Bills. That is a naive response because there was always a behind the curtain way through his agent to determine what other teams were interested in him and at what price range. No team showed an interest in him as a starter.

 

The stark reality is he took a salary cut with a shorter term because he had no other offers. If you believe that there is still potential for him, even with his glaring limitations, then so be it. What I am saying in a declarative manner is that when he had an opportunity to avail himself to the market there were no takers. What does that tell you?

 

The issue for me isn't whether TT can be a starter for the Bills because he is currently the designated starter. The issue for me is whether as a starter he is good enough. I am comfortable in saying no.

 

Yes your opinion is the only fact. Where do you rank TT as a starter in this league? Is he top 25 in your book or hell even top 30? We are talking a league where Brian Hoyer and Josh McCown are slated to start this year. I can tell your a smart guy but this second post is dripping with both conjecture and condescension.

 

Specifically the bolded yes his agent and teams may have tampered and discussed a player under contract but there are so many variables. You have no idea if any other teams offered the starting spot. How much money were the other teams offering? Maybe another team like the 49ers or Jets offered more but he didn't want to go to a bottom of the barrel team. Maybe the Texans offered more but he didn't want to live in Texas. Maybe the Browns offered more but he didn't want to go to the factory of sadness. Maybe he loves Buffalo and his team mates. Do you really think that if Buffalo hadn't re-signed him he wouldn't have had an offer to be someone's starter? I am comfortable in saying he would have. That is my conjecture however naive you want to say that makes me. Even the most ardent anti-TT guys have him in the top 25 QBs in the NFL he would be starting somewhere next year.

 

There is so much you don't know about the situation that sitting here and declaring that you know exactly what happened and went through his mind when making the decision is problematic for your argument.

[Section242]

I know everyone hates him but EJ has better numbers across the board than TJ Yates. Yates is terrible and would still be on the market if we didn't sign him.

 

Peterman and Jones haven't proven a thing in the NFL. That said, we need to hope they can beat out a guy like Yates because if they don't, we are in tough shape.

 

And the offseason contract stuff affecting Taylor is stupid. Personally, I don't think Taylor is good enough but he should be super motivated to prove himself and sign a big, long deal. I guess it's pressure for him but if he is a franchise qb, he will step up.

 

And still, he is better than TJ Yates.

 

 

I think it's a case of some other teams trash being better than the Bills trash. Yates is a fringe NFL player who may not make the team. Which is about the same as Manuel in Oakland. If Peterman shows anything in the preseason I don't think Yates will make the roster and Jones is as good as gone.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

I think it's a case of some other teams trash being better than the Bills trash. Yates is a fringe NFL player who may not make the team. Which is about the same as Manuel in Oakland. If Peterman shows anything in the preseason I don't think Yates will make the roster and Jones is as good as gone.

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[GunnerBill]

Really good post. I think people might be surprised at how good Roman's offense was for Tyrod. People in SF started blaming Roman & Harbaugh for Kaepernick's regression as a qb. Well, they left and CK struggled even more.

 

But I'd love to be surprised to see Tyrod's strengths are as a qb are quick timing routes. I don't see that but who knows.

 

Thanks. I will probably be labelled a "hater" or told I think Tyrod is "terrible" but I can only say it as I see it I don't think my post was unfair at all.

 

And like you, I'd love to be proved wrong. Tyrod is an easy guy to root for.

Edited June 27, 2017 by GunnerBill

[John from Riverside]

 

 

I think it's a case of some other teams trash being better than the Bills trash. Yates is a fringe NFL player who may not make the team. Which is about the same as Manuel in Oakland. If Peterman shows anything in the preseason I don't think Yates will make the roster and Jones is as good as gone.

I would like to see C. Jones on the practice squad if he doesnt make the team

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Is that Negativity or Reality?

 

Some truth, some click bait.

 

Truth - If Bills were convinced Taylor was their long-term franchise QB, there would be a much firmer contractual commitment than the one they have that leaves them an easy out after this season.

 

Truth - Sure, Taylor has plenty of incentive to have the best season of his career. Whether it's from the Bills or another team, he wants to prove that he deserves to get paid.

 

Truth - But there's reason to wonder what his frame of mind will be after being forced to take a pay cut. Taylor also is well aware that, with the use of a fifth-round draft pick on a quarterback (Peterman) and the acquisition of a first-round choice in 2018, the Bills are positioned to replace him if he doesn't make dramatic strides.

 

Truth - Although his fleet feet remain vital to the Bills’ strong rushing production, Taylor remains too quick to run and does a poor job of looking for targets in the middle of the field. Except for the final practice of mandatory minicamp, he had generally mediocre to poor showings through offseason workouts open to the media.

 

Truth - The fact Taylor will be transitioning to yet another new offense is another potential stumbling block.

 

The rest is conjecture imo.

 

I think it's stretching the meaning of the word "truth" to apply it to the bolded portion. That's pure conjecture. Vic is wondering what Taylor's frame of mind is. He's conjecturing it will be poor. As for Peterman, frankly, 5th round QB don't usually stay in the league, much less compete for a starting role. I doubt Taylor is looking over his shoulder at Peterman much.

 

If the Bills draft a 1st rounder next year, that will be a different situation, but he's coming into this year as the entrenched starter and he knows it.

 

I also think the 'yet another new offense' is overblown since Dennison and Taylor were together in Baltimore.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[atlbillsfan1975]

Saying the Bills are worse at QB then last year is weird. The Bills have the same starter in Taylor.

The problem with this team for the past 25 years has been having both sides of the ball be good. You have to have one side of the ball be elite and the other side can be mediocre to compete and make the playoffs. OR you have to have both sides of above average and also the ST's be good.

Taylor and the offense did enough last year to make the playoff's if the defense had played as well as it did in 2015.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Dramatic strides?

 

Lol. I really don't understand the bashing of Taylor. Yes, he needs to improve as a passer, but he's a pretty damn good player in my book.

Was I bashing him or you? Or both?

Performance @ QB is as much mental as physical.

 

I'm sure TT will do his utmost in 2017,

both mentally and physically.

[TaskerTough]

If we get our 2014 Defense back, Tyrod is good enough to push this team into the playoffs. If we don't, we need a superlative talent at QB to push us over. I'm a naive baby man, so I like to think that Tyrod can upgrade himself and be that talent. But if he doesn't do it this year, we're positioned to move on.

Vic is a jaded narcissistic coot, and he deserves to be. To suggest that Tyrod, who has bet on himself/had prove it deals since the jump, is effected by the facts at hand is particularly lazy.. It is June I guess.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

You and many others continue to make the argument that he was an attractive qb option for a number of qb starved teams. The reality is that when he had the opportunity to pursue other options no team was interested in him at his former salary or even at a lower salary rate. The point is frequently made that he couldn't check out the market because he was contractually obligated to the Bills. That is a naive response because there was always a behind the curtain way through his agent to determine what other teams were interested in him and at what price range. No team showed an interest in him as a starter.

 

The stark reality is he took a salary cut with a shorter term because he had no other offers. If you believe that there is still potential for him, even with his glaring limitations, then so be it. What I am saying in a declarative manner is that when he had an opportunity to avail himself to the market there were no takers. What does that tell you?

 

The issue for me isn't whether TT can be a starter for the Bills because he is currently the designated starter. The issue for me is whether as a starter he is good enough. I am comfortable in saying no.

...the market was not willing to gamble on that money for his style.....I'd say the market's hesitancy came from similar styles of RG III (BIG mouth) and Kaep (his head worried about tats and poses)....TT's style is simllar but NO way does he have a big mouth or big head....Russell Wilson has been successful because of his style AND smarts....he's learned to temper his scrambles and be more selective but took a beating trying to make IT happen with a lousy OL....TT's main weakness is processing the entire field in <5 seconds to find open receivers and not to pull it down prematurely because of failed reads (Wilson has learned this)....so it's incumbent on Dennison to design a passing component that masks that weakness be it utilizing RB's, screens, rollouts, quick slants, etc......reducing his east-west/west-east adventurous scrambles takes pressure off the OL line as well having to hold blocks....and the deep ball WILL be there for the taking IMO....Dennison deserves a shot to fix it...........

Edited June 27, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Bills757]

Shore up RT, get Taylor some solid, HEALTHY WR's and I think you'll see a guy who will be put in the best position to succeed under Dennison. For those who think his contract is gonna play any part in his on-field performance, you're either drunk or comatose.....Carucci may be both but I suspect he's just trying to stir the pot and get clicks.

 

Taylor will play hard no matter the situation because that's what he does. He understands the business side of things and I feel confident he knows he still has a lot to prove to be considered the long term answer at QB. Taylor is the consummate professional and conducts himself the same way off the field.

 

Before I'm told that I think Taylor's the greatest QB to play the game and he has no flaws, let me be clear......this is Taylor's year to make his case one way or the other. With the clown out and McD & Dennison in, it's his make it or break it time. We'll see what happens.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Bills757

[JohnC]

...the market was not willing to gamble on that money for his style.....I'd say the market's hesitancy came from similar styles of RG III (BIG mouth) and Kaep (his head worried about tats and poses)....TT's style is simllar but NO way does he have a big mouth or big head....Russell Wilson has been successful because of his style AND smarts....he's learned to temper his scrambles and be more selective but took a beating trying to make IT happen with a lousy OL....TT's main weakness is processing the entire field in <5 seconds to find open receivers and not to pull it down prematurely because of failed reads (Wilson has learned this)....so it's incumbent on Dennison to design a passing component that masks that weakness be it utilizing RB's, screens, rollouts, quick slants, etc......reducing his east-west/west-east adventurous scrambles takes pressure off the OL line as well having to hold blocks....and the deep ball WILL be there for the taking IMO....Dennison deserves a shot to fix it...........

With respect to the highlighted segment that is one of the significant the weak points that can't be masked. You either have that vision and processing ability or you don't. TT is not a young qb. He has been in this league for at least a half a dozen years. If he hasn't learned to make reads in a timely manner at this stage of his career, he never will. I'm aware that he has only started for two years but he still has been in this league for at least a half dozen years. If his game is still so rudimentary at this point then there is little chance (my opinion) that he will ever master that crucial aspect of the qb position.

 

I think the key here is THEY left. Harbaugh imo is responsible for the light turning on for Alex Smith. CK was not at all set up for success with the dumpster fire that SF turned into. They are on their 4th HC in 4 years. I don't think CK is great but I also don't think he really got a fair shot once Harbaugh moved on. Roman has long been praised for his run schemes and received criticism for his pass game design. It certainly may be on the QBs he had to work with but I don't think it is an airtight case to say so.

 

 

 

 

Yes your opinion is the only fact. Where do you rank TT as a starter in this league? Is he top 25 in your book or hell even top 30? We are talking a league where Brian Hoyer and Josh McCown are slated to start this year. I can tell your a smart guy but this second post is dripping with both conjecture and condescension.

 

Specifically the bolded yes his agent and teams may have tampered and discussed a player under contract but there are so many variables. You have no idea if any other teams offered the starting spot. How much money were the other teams offering? Maybe another team like the 49ers or Jets offered more but he didn't want to go to a bottom of the barrel team. Maybe the Texans offered more but he didn't want to live in Texas. Maybe the Browns offered more but he didn't want to go to the factory of sadness. Maybe he loves Buffalo and his team mates. Do you really think that if Buffalo hadn't re-signed him he wouldn't have had an offer to be someone's starter? I am comfortable in saying he would have. That is my conjecture however naive you want to say that makes me. Even the most ardent anti-TT guys have him in the top 25 QBs in the NFL he would be starting somewhere next year.

 

There is so much you don't know about the situation that sitting here and declaring that you know exactly what happened and went through his mind when making the decision is problematic for your argument.

Truth of the matter is I don't care where TT is ranked as a qb. He can be ranked between 15 to 20 and still not be good enough to lead this team to anywhere meaningful. You point out that mediocre qbs like Hoyer and McCown have been starters. My response is so what! TT is clearly better than those qbs. But what does that get you? It gets you nowhere. That's my central point.

[grb]

You either have that vision and processing ability or you don't.

 

Whenever someone starts going on about Taylor's "processing" speed (as if he's a defective cpu chip), I know it's time to pull out TT's statistics in the 15 games with a legitimate No 1&2 receiver, when both Watkins and Woods played : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs.

 

His "processing" speed seem to work in those games, huh?

Edited June 27, 2017 by grb