26CornerBlitz Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 The argument I originally made was never about how he did with the Jets. It was about how he did with Buffalo. Same guy different venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) I've thought about this, and I think actually it's mental. I think Fitz plays well when he's the underdog and has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove or someone chasing him to start. When he comes in as the established starter, he just doesn't play as well. Teams really should have enough film on Fitz not to need a season to take the stuff he can do away from him. You raise a good point but I don't think self-confidence or bad decisions are the problem. He has never come across to me as a guy who feels pressure, and we all agree that he's a pretty smart guy. The more exposure he gets the more his weaknesses are exposed. In both Buffalo and New Jersey he had a great first year with Chan Gailey being creative and taking advantage of what he does well and hiding his flaws. When he started in NJ he had new talent around him so Chan devised new ways to take advantage of what Fitz did well. Once the defenses caught up (except for Rex & Rob) he became much less effective. Same thing in game, defensive coordinators figure out what he's doing well and his limited arm strength eliminates most of the other options. Edited June 22, 2017 by HT02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I agree. I think if Fitz was the QB in 2013 and 2014, the Bills would have had at least a 9-7 record in 2013 (they went 6-10 with virtually no QB at all). They went 9-7 in 2014 with Manuel and Orton, and by the end of the season, Orton had lost interest in playing in the NFL. They would have made the playoffs in at least one of those years, and possibly both with Fitzy. He was the perfect example of the Bills organization's willingness to sacrifce wins for profit. They wanted to maximize profits, so they cut Fitz without having any viable QB on the roster. Then they drafted Manuel in the first round even though there wasn't a good QB prospect in entire the 2013 draft and signed Kevin Kolb who couldn't even stay healthy enough to make the first preseason game. I believe Jeff Tuel was the starting QB at the beginning of the season, followed by Thad Lewis, and then Manuel. In 2014, they lured Kyle Orton out of retirement late in preseason, and he eventually replaced Manuel who sucked. The problem was, Orton called it a career about 3 or 4 games before the end of the 2014 season, even though he was still the Bills starting QB. Revisionist history. Fitz stunk. Terrible fourth quarter guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecos Bills Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Delhomme was undrafted and earned a lot more than you'd think. Not sure but he's probably around the same area. Thought of Cassel but he was drafted at 230. For the record, Cassel has made over $61M! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) the guy has managed to have a lucrative nfl career. you absolutely have to give him that. i'm sure once he retires, he'll still be a very productive guy, without having to worry about money. Can't hate on him, he has busted his ass to become a fringe starter in this league who simply lacks the physical attributes to be a true starter. Most guys with his skill set would have settled for hanging out and being a career backup/clipboard holder or being out of the league after 3 or 4 seasons. Edited June 22, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 His arm wouldn't be as big of a problem if his brain realized the limitations of it. So I do think that the mental aspect of his game is a big issue. Yes, I agree. His problem always has been that he's asked his body to do things that it can't do, and that's bad decision making. That's mental. We are in agreement on most things, most importantly that neither of us would want Fitz at the helm if the season or play-offs were on the line. He's a back-up at best. The only point I have a slight disagreement with you about are the importance of arm strength and and bad decisions. I agree that players shouldn't try to do "too much" but his limited physical skills impact his options and require him to take more chances, especially late in the game and in pressure situation when defenses take away the plays he's been successful on (bubble screen ect..) and limit his options. If Fitz were to "play it safe" we could have relived the Captain Checkdown/Trent Edwards days again. I would argue that his limited physical abilities require him to be more aggressive, therefore makes more mistakes, That has less to do with clutch/choke which would again be a mental issue. I agree that when the game is on the line, you have to take more chances, but you have to be smart about the chances you take. Fitz was not smart about that. Down 4 points with 30 seconds to go, 3rd and 8, Fitz will take a chance and test his arm. That's a mistake. In that situation he has to play within himself, and if necessary, throw it away, because the smart play is to give up on the play and try again on fourth down. Fitz is like the basketball player who never saw a shot he didn't like. And, to change the subject from the end of the game, I don't think I'll ever forget being in Met Life a few years ago when Fitz underthrew the same pass to Stevie up the left sideline, both for interceptions, the second to more or less end the game. Same play, same throw, same result. That's not good quarterbacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Fitz played in Buffalo with Lee Evans and Terrell Owens one season, with Lee Evans and Stevie Johnson a second season. Fitz played with Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker. Don't try to make us believe that Taylor had better receivers. Fitz had ONE season, ONE, where his passer rating was better than Taylor's career average passer rating. Rob Johnson had a better qb rating than Jim Kelly. Fitz did more with less and was forced to win games with his arm. He's the only qb we've had that was able to somewhat compete with Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 i heard Fitz can do the rubix cube and his son is a human calculator. perhaps his son will go to Harvard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Know why I liked Fitz? Because when you compared him to Trentative, he was way more ballsy. He had (and has) his limitations, but maybe if the coaching and roster of talent was better, he would have been able to take this team to more wins. Frankly, if we really want to split hairs here, I would have been more excited to have seen Fitz for another year or so while the team acquired more talent, then had a quick and failed EJ experiment, then got another QB. But this is all hindsight, and I own that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Know why I liked Fitz? Because when you compared him to Trentative, he was way more ballsy. He had (and has) his limitations, but maybe if the coaching and roster of talent was better, he would have been able to take this team to more wins. Frankly, if we really want to split hairs here, I would have been more excited to have seen Fitz for another year or so while the team acquired more talent, then had a quick and failed EJ experiment, then got another QB. But this is all hindsight, and I own that. ....Brandon DID try to retain him for backup money but he declined stating, "I WILL get starter money somewhere".....so his travels continued................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I admire Fitz as a man for making the most of his opportunities but as a starting QB he flat out stunk. I'm amazed that someone of such marginal talent is still in the league. I guess coaches must be impressed with that Harvard degree and I'm certain he has good leadership qualities. His jersey collection rivals Testaverde by now. It goes to show you that smarts can't overcome physical limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KermitMcDermott Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) I'll say this for Fitzy... He does not care about what any of us think of him. Edited June 23, 2017 by KermitMcDermott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I admire Fitz as a man for making the most of his opportunities but as a starting QB he flat out stunk. I'm amazed that someone of such marginal talent is still in the league. I guess coaches must be impressed with that Harvard degree and I'm certain he has good leadership qualities. His jersey collection rivals Testaverde by now. It goes to show you that smarts can't overcome physical limitations. Can people stop with the hyperbole??? Fitz beat Brady in a shootout in Buffalo. He's thrown for multiple 300 yard games against the Pats with David Nelson, Stevie Johnson, and Donald Jones. You have never seen other non star qbs play if you think Fitz is so terrible. He wasn't good enough as a starter but might be the best backup in the NFL and probs ly better than some starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) Yes, I agree. His problem always has been that he's asked his body to do things that it can't do, and that's bad decision making. That's mental. I agree that when the game is on the line, you have to take more chances, but you have to be smart about the chances you take. Fitz was not smart about that. Down 4 points with 30 seconds to go, 3rd and 8, Fitz will take a chance and test his arm. That's a mistake. In that situation he has to play within himself, and if necessary, throw it away, because the smart play is to give up on the play and try again on fourth down. Fitz is like the basketball player who never saw a shot he didn't like. And, to change the subject from the end of the game, I don't think I'll ever forget being in Met Life a few years ago when Fitz underthrew the same pass to Stevie up the left sideline, both for interceptions, the second to more or less end the game. Same play, same throw, same result. That's not good quarterbacking. I disagree with this. Making these throws or not isn't a pure yes/no decision. It's a spectrum based on likelihood of good/bad outcomes. It's not like a QB absolutely knows what will happen when he throws it, not even the best. And near the end of games where you're behind, you absolutely need to be taking more risks than you'd take at times in the game when you'll have more chances later. On that play you mentioned earlier, down four points, thirty seconds to go, 3rd and eight, you absolutely have to be willing to take much larger risks than usual. You hope you don't have to but if it's your best option you go for it. You don't know there'll be any better option on 4th down. Maybe nobody will be open, or maybe a receiver will drop that 4th down pass and you'll have missed your chance on 3rd.. Clearly you don't don't throw impossible balls but if you guess there's maybe a 30% chance - roughly, of course - of an INT, you probably make that throw in that case and you would never pull the trigger on that kind of a risky play earlier in the game. Fitz was a bit worse at this maybe than most and he also didn't have extreme accuracy so on balls that Rodgers would have completed, Fitz sometimes threw INTs. But they weren't dumb plays, IMHO, just poor throws in situations where he had to take bigger risks than he'd have liked. Not that I want Fitzy starting in a Bills uniform again, ever. Wouldn't mind a bit seeing him again as a backup. He'd be a terrific mentor / injury backup for a young guy. I thought it was a shame he wasn't willing to take the pay cut after his last year and fill that role. He turned out to be right, though, he was hired several other places in hopes he could be a good starter. I never really trusted Fitzy to start, but I sure liked him personally from what we saw from outside. But every year he was the starter to me that was a very very clear signal that we should have been drafting a QB. High. If there was someone we liked. Not good quarterbacking. We can absolutely agree on that. For the record, Cassel has made over $61M! Not bad!! Edited June 23, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 ....Brandon DID try to retain him for backup money but he declined stating, "I WILL get starter money somewhere".....so his travels continued................ Yes indeed, but the FO was also foolish enough to give him that whopping contract in the first place. Taking it back was like trying to unspill milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Fitz is a survivor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Fitzpatrick would have a COMPLETELY different reputation and career if he could somehow stop from throwing late fourth quarter interceptions. It's been his consistent downfall. I'll never forget being in Nashville for the final week a couple of years back. Titans were hanging in their with the Texans...but every single Titan fan sitting around us KNEW that Fitz would throw a pick on the final drive! And they were right. Nothing had changed from his time in WNY. I've never really figured out why. He's reportedly to smart to panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Smart man....average QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) Yes, I agree. His problem always has been that he's asked his body to do things that it can't do, and that's bad decision making. That's mental. I agree that when the game is on the line, you have to take more chances, but you have to be smart about the chances you take. Fitz was not smart about that. Down 4 points with 30 seconds to go, 3rd and 8, Fitz will take a chance and test his arm. That's a mistake. In that situation he has to play within himself, and if necessary, throw it away, because the smart play is to give up on the play and try again on fourth down. Fitz is like the basketball player who never saw a shot he didn't like. And, to change the subject from the end of the game, I don't think I'll ever forget being in Met Life a few years ago when Fitz underthrew the same pass to Stevie up the left sideline, both for interceptions, the second to more or less end the game. Same play, same throw, same result. That's not good quarterbacking. I know its a fine point but what I am saying is that Fitz's limited physical skills require him to make lower percentage throws because that is the best option available to him. To not make them would likely result in a lot of 3 and outs or late in the game 4 and outs. (aka Trent Edwards). He's not a stupid guy who doesn't understand the risks, he is in fact a very smart guy who rolls the dice and goes with the highest percentage for victory given his abilities. Which unfortunately are not very good and the reason he shouldn't be a starting QB. It's not that he's not clutch or a choker the unfortunate truth is his physical skills are not good enough to win consistently in the NFL. Edited June 23, 2017 by HT02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I know its a fine point but what I am saying is that Fitz's limited physical skills require him to make lower percentage throws because that is the best option available to him. To not make them would likely result in a lot of 3 and outs or late in the game 4 and outs. (aka Trent Edwards). He's not a stupid guy who doesn't understand the risks he is in fact a very smart guy who rolls the dice and goes with the highest percentage for victory. Which unfortunately is not a very good one and the reason he shouldn't be a starting QB. It's not that he's not clutch or a choker the unfortunate truth is his physical skills are not good enough to win consistently in the NFL. It's exactly what he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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