New data shows Tyrod/the offense was better than you thought

[transplantbillsfan]

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones transplant.

 

I've an idea for you. Start a new thread / Poll and make it public where people can go on record. This way we shall see "for real" who is in the minority and who isn't.

 

Maybe some people are sick and tired of posting the same thing day after day after day after day. I know I grow tired of it.

 

I'm even more tired of being called out as a hater and having an agenda.

 

Your idea for a new thread has been done before. Don't you remember? There was a real minority of people who thought Taylor was a real problem.

 

And I'm sorry, if you guys are so tired of posting and some are going to just get angry and belligerent (and I'm not talking about you), then why are you posting in these topics you're so sick of discussing?

 

It absolutely baffles my mind.

 

 

And yes, I realize I'm not guilt free. I could always keep my mouth shut and not respond to what are turning into more and more angry and/or belligerent and/or middle school posts, but I haven't been.

 

With that, I'll try harder to not respond to those posts... or at least do so without bringing myself down to their level.

Edited June 21, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[BuffaloHokie13]

I guess that I don't know why it's fair to expect the offense to do it more than most? The Hokie stats are pretty damning. The Bills offense shouldn't be vilified for not achieving something that other offenses aren't forced to achieve. They lost 6 games scoring 24 points!! That's more than the AFC playoff teams combined. If you picked up the 2015-2016 Bills offense and paired it with a decent defense you are looking at 11 wins.

I've got more analysis coming, as I've now finished the rest of the league, but I do think I've identified why there is such a rift with blaming O vs. blaming D. Part of my analysis was totaling how many times over the past 2 years that the following happened:

 

Offense Carried: The team won even though the Defense allowed 24+ points

Offensive Letdown: The team lost even though the Defense held the opponent to 23 or less

Defense Carried: The team won even though the Offense scored 23 or fewer points

Defensive Letdown: The team lost even though the Offense score 24+ points

 

The Bills ranked as follows over the past 32 games:

Offense Carried: 0 times - T-29th most (Tied with Bears, 49ers, Texans)

Offensive Letdown: 3 times - T-6th fewest (Tied with Giants, Seahawks, Colts, Eagles, and Saints)

Defense Carried: 6 times - T-8th most (Tied with Lions & Bears)

Defensive Letdown: 9 times - 32nd (31st was Chargers with 7)

 

So the offense has yet to carry a game where the defense has struggled, and the defense has let down our offense more than any other team in the league. Honestly, as sad as that sentence is, it sounds just about right.

[Stank_Nasty]

I guess that I don't know why it's fair to expect the offense to do it more than most? The Hokie stats are pretty damning. The Bills offense shouldn't be vilified for not achieving something that other offenses aren't forced to achieve. They lost 6 games scoring 24 points!! That's more than the AFC playoff teams combined. If you picked up the 2015-2016 Bills offense and paired it with a decent defense you are looking at 11 wins.

i feel like this should be common sense for people watching the team over the last 2 years and yet its lost on so many poor souls.

 

if somebody came to a bills fan and said going into week 17 you will be the 6th best scoring offense and have a record low 9's TO's, EVERYONE should take that..... but the sad thing is you have guys around here that might legitimately say "well.... were those rushing or passing td's and how many passing yards does taylor have in this scenario?" LOL.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Stank_Nasty

[Tenhigh]

I've got more analysis coming, as I've now finished the rest of the league, but I do think I've identified why there is such a rift with blaming O vs. blaming D. Part of my analysis was totaling how many times over the past 2 years that the following happened:

 

Offense Carried: The team won even though the Defense allowed 24+ points

Offensive Letdown: The team lost even though the Defense held the opponent to 23 or less

Defense Carried: The team won even though the Offense scored 23 or fewer points

Defensive Letdown: The team lost even though the Offense score 24+ points

 

The Bills ranked as follows over the past 32 games:

Offense Carried: 0 times - T-29th most (Tied with Bears, 49ers, Texans)

Offensive Letdown: 3 times - T-6th fewest (Tied with Giants, Seahawks, Colts, Eagles, and Saints)

Defense Carried: 6 times - T-8th most (Tied with Lions & Bears)

Defensive Letdown: 9 times - 32nd (31st was Chargers with 7)

 

So the offense has yet to carry a game where the defense has struggled, and the defense has let down our offense more than any other team in the league. Honestly, as sad as that sentence is, it sounds just about right.

YUCK. Thank you for some good analysis, but YUCK. The bright side here is that the those on either side of the argument can read your post and still consider their opinion is still "right".

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I guess that I don't know why it's fair to expect the offense to do it more than most? The Hokie stats are pretty damning. The Bills offense shouldn't be vilified for not achieving something that other offenses aren't forced to achieve. They lost 6 games scoring 24 points!! That's more than the AFC playoff teams combined. If you picked up the 2015-2016 Bills offense and paired it with a decent defense you are looking at 11 wins.

how about more do it than once a season. IIRC He did it once last season being tied with Jax and his fan club claimed it as a Victory and a check on the he's done it column.

[Kirby Jackson]

I've got more analysis coming, as I've now finished the rest of the league, but I do think I've identified why there is such a rift with blaming O vs. blaming D. Part of my analysis was totaling how many times over the past 2 years that the following happened:

 

Offense Carried: The team won even though the Defense allowed 24+ points

Offensive Letdown: The team lost even though the Defense held the opponent to 23 or less

Defense Carried: The team won even though the Offense scored 23 or fewer points

Defensive Letdown: The team lost even though the Offense score 24+ points

 

The Bills ranked as follows over the past 32 games:

Offense Carried: 0 times - T-29th most (Tied with Bears, 49ers, Texans)

Offensive Letdown: 3 times - T-6th fewest (Tied with Giants, Seahawks, Colts, Eagles, and Saints)

Defense Carried: 6 times - T-8th most (Tied with Lions & Bears)

Defensive Letdown: 9 times - 32nd (31st was Chargers with 7)

 

So the offense has yet to carry a game where the defense has struggled, and the defense has let down our offense more than any other team in the league. Honestly, as sad as that sentence is, it sounds just about right.

Ha ha, I think that someone has finally defined "Billsy."

how about more do it than once a season. IIRC He did it once last season being tied with Jax and his fan club claimed it as a Victory and a check on the he's done it column.

Again, 6 losses when scoring 24 points. The playoff teams combined for 5. I don't know how you look at that and deduce the offense as the problem?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Your idea for a new thread has been done before. Don't you remember? There was a real minority of people who thought Taylor was a real problem.

 

And I'm sorry, if you guys are so tired of posting and some are going to just get angry and belligerent (and I'm not talking about you), then why are you posting in these topics you're so sick of discussing?

 

It absolutely baffles my mind.

 

 

And yes, I realize I'm not guilt free. I could always keep my mouth shut and not respond to what are turning into more and more angry and/or belligerent and/or middle school posts, but I haven't been.

 

With that, I'll try harder to not respond to those posts... or at least do so without bringing myself down to their level.

Poll Wording makes all the difference

 

Is TT the "real" problem, or is TT the long term answer.

 

I am looking for discussions not pissing contests. Sure I may have strayed a few times, but one can only be called a hater or have an agenda so many times before it topples the scales.

 

TT is the best option we have

I wish we could see more from him and the team

 

There is nothing wrong with that sentiment. But being called a hater for it is not right.

Ha ha, I think that someone has finally defined "Billsy."

Again, 6 losses when scoring 24 points. The playoff teams combined for 5. I don't know how you look at that and deduce the offense as the problem?

Wins against playoff teams with equally bad defenses.

 

 

When TT can lead the Bills to victories over Tannehill in Mai, Fits in NYJ, A Smith in KC, Carr Oak, and NE I'll stop being so critical.

 

 

And please beating NE with a 3rd string rookie with a busted hand and only scoring 16 points is naught but a moral victory.

 

cheers

[transplantbillsfan]

Poll Wording makes all the difference

 

Is TT the "real" problem, or is TT the long term answer.

 

 

There have been polls. But if you make that poll with your wording "Is TT the "real" problem, or is TT the long term answer," you leave out all the middle ground where the vast majority I'm talking about sit.

 

I'm speaking for myself, but I believe the vast majority are, at best, "undecided, but somewhat encouraged" as to whether TT is the long term answer, but believe what he's done so far warrants a longer look.

 

 

If you think this poll should be created and you think wording is key, you should create that poll. But again, we had something like that as a poll over at BBMB, and it truly was a vocal minority who thought TT was "the real" or even "a big" problem.

Edited June 21, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[BuffaloHokie13]

Ha ha, I think that someone has finally defined "Billsy."

Again, 6 losses when scoring 24 points. The playoff teams combined for 5. I don't know how you look at that and deduce the offense as the problem?

PM'd

[transplantbillsfan]

Poll Wording makes all the difference

 

Is TT the "real" problem, or is TT the long term answer.

 

I am looking for discussions not pissing contests. Sure I may have strayed a few times, but one can only be called a hater or have an agenda so many times before it topples the scales.

 

TT is the best option we have

I wish we could see more from him and the team

 

There is nothing wrong with that sentiment. But being called a hater for it is not right.

 

 

Well, sounds familiar, and it swings both ways with both sides of the argument

 

When you have idiots saying dumb stuff like you've "got it hard for Taylor," it makes civil discussion virtually impossible.

 

 

People need to not make everything so personal on a message board.

[Tenhigh]

 

 

There have been polls. But if you make that poll with your wording "Is TT the "real" problem, or is TT the long term answer," you leave out all the middle ground where the vast majority I'm talking about sit.

 

I'm speaking for myself, but I believe the vast majority are, at best, "undecided, but somewhat encouraged" as to whether TT is the long term answer, but believe what he's done so far warrants a longer look.

 

 

If you think this poll should be created and you think wording is key, you should create that poll. But again, we had something like that as a poll over at BBMB, and it truly was a vocal minority who thought TT was "the real" or even "a big" problem.

Outside of the Seahawks game, I wasn't particularly encouraged by last year's version of TT, and I'm surprised so many are. We need better from that position if we want to become a legitimate contender. I'm in the camp of "I hope it was terrible coaching that made him play as poorly as he did for much of last season, otherwise, we need to use both of those 2018 1st rounders on a top flight QB draft pick".

[BuffaloHokie13]

Outside of the Seahawks game, I wasn't particularly encouraged by last year's version of TT, and I'm surprised so many are. We need better from that position if we want to become a legitimate contender. I'm in the camp of "I hope it was terrible coaching that made him play as poorly as he did for much of last season, otherwise, we need to use both of those 2018 1st rounders on a top flight QB draft pick".

I don't think it was terrible coaching. I do think it was a reflection of the team philosophy. The offense was a run first, ground & pound, ball control offense with the potential for big plays sprinkled in. This offensive philosophy can certainly be successful when you have a D that consistently performs well paired with it. Our offense was never the reason we won, and it was rarely the reason we lost. An inconsistent defense was the controlling factor all year. When the D was on we won a lot (83.3% Win rate when opponents were held to 23 or fewer points). When the D was off we lost.

[Scott7975]

I'll chime in with where I stand. I think Tyrod was the best we could do this year and I hope the passing offense improves. I thought he showed promise in 2015 but slid in 2016. If it doesn't improve I hope the Bills spend those picks wisely next year on a QB and he becomes the answer

[transplantbillsfan]

I'll chime in with where I stand. I think Tyrod was the best we could do this year and I hope the passing offense improves. I thought he showed promise in 2015 but slid in 2016. If it doesn't improve I hope the Bills spend those picks wisely next year on a QB and he becomes the answer

 

And this, I feel, is where the vast majority of us stand

 

I don't think we need a poll to reveal that

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Well, sounds familiar, and it swings both ways with both sides of the argument

 

When you have idiots saying dumb stuff like you've "got it hard for Taylor," it makes civil discussion virtually impossible.

 

 

People need to not make everything so personal on a message board.

These are the posts to ignore.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

I'll chime in with where I stand. I think Tyrod was the best we could do this year and I hope the passing offense improves. I thought he showed promise in 2015 but slid in 2016. If it doesn't improve I hope the Bills spend those picks wisely next year on a QB and he becomes the answer

 

agree. he either steps up and they contend or they start from scratch with a pick from next years draft and the drought will likely see 20 years. that simple really but what would an off season be without all the discussion about the QB.

[BringBackOrton]

I've got more analysis coming, as I've now finished the rest of the league, but I do think I've identified why there is such a rift with blaming O vs. blaming D. Part of my analysis was totaling how many times over the past 2 years that the following happened:

 

Offense Carried: The team won even though the Defense allowed 24+ points

Offensive Letdown: The team lost even though the Defense held the opponent to 23 or less

Defense Carried: The team won even though the Offense scored 23 or fewer points

Defensive Letdown: The team lost even though the Offense score 24+ points

 

The Bills ranked as follows over the past 32 games:

Offense Carried: 0 times - T-29th most (Tied with Bears, 49ers, Texans)

Offensive Letdown: 3 times - T-6th fewest (Tied with Giants, Seahawks, Colts, Eagles, and Saints)

Defense Carried: 6 times - T-8th most (Tied with Lions & Bears)

Defensive Letdown: 9 times - 32nd (31st was Chargers with 7)

 

So the offense has yet to carry a game where the defense has struggled, and the defense has let down our offense more than any other team in the league. Honestly, as sad as that sentence is, it sounds just about right.

Appreciate the analysis but I don't know any posters who thought the defense wasn't an issue. Even the handful of "Rex guys" thought the defense sucked, just for different reasons.

 

Blaming the defense for TT's deficiencies is like blaming TT for the defense letting up 34 points. Inane on both sides.

[JM2009]

Poll Wording makes all the difference

 

Is TT the "real" problem, or is TT the long term answer.

 

I am looking for discussions not pissing contests. Sure I may have strayed a few times, but one can only be called a hater or have an agenda so many times before it topples the scales.

 

TT is the best option we have

I wish we could see more from him and the team

 

There is nothing wrong with that sentiment. But being called a hater for it is not right.

Wins against playoff teams with equally bad defenses.

 

 

When TT can lead the Bills to victories over Tannehill in Mai, Fits in NYJ, A Smith in KC, Carr Oak, and NE I'll stop being so critical.

 

 

And please beating NE with a 3rd string rookie with a busted hand and only scoring 16 points is naught but a moral victory.

 

cheers

Taylor and the Bills blew out Tannehill in Miami in 2015. Beat Fitz and the Jets twice in 2015 also.

[JM2009]

Appreciate the analysis but I don't know any posters who thought the defense wasn't an issue. Even the handful of "Rex guys" thought the defense sucked, just for different reasons.

 

Blaming the defense for TT's deficiencies is like blaming TT for the defense letting up 34 points. Inane on both sides.

31 points scored, one minute left, should have been enough to beat Miami. Why should this offense have to score 40 points against the better teams when the defense gives up over 30 to them? Why should the offense have to do even better than not turn the ball over against everyone, and yet not expect the defense to get turnovers from the better teams.

Edited June 21, 2017 by JM2009

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

31 points scored, one minute left, should have been enough to beat Miami. Why should this offense have to score 40 points against the better teams when the defense gives up over 30 to them? Why should the offense have to do even better than not turn the ball over against everyone, and yet not expect the defense to get turnovers from the better teams.

only stats I see as relevant are as follows:

 

1. Batch #1-7-9, 7-9, 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, 7-9........you get my drift

2. Batch #2- oh fer 17 and counting........

 

...individual stats mean squat (except to ME Brees).....break the schneid FIRST and THEN we can talk about HOW it happened.....THIS JUST IN: I am not rooting against TT being successful by ANY means....only a purebred azz who hope a kid fails to fulfill his NFL dream....let's say his stats were pedestrian or below at best with Shady rushing for 1,600 yds and a DE (pick one) recording 23 sacks, with the result being the SAME 7-9....now what?....I missed the TEAM concept memo I guess.........