Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 Yet none of the top 3 teams in pass attempts per game made the playoffs last year while two out of the bottom three teams in pass attempts per game did make the playoffs. I'm not sure there is a valid point here OP. You need to be able to throw it efficiently and at certain times when the run game is not going but you don't have to throw it all the time.
Thurman#1 Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Looks like a bash Tyrod thread more then anything else. Where did the Bills rank in offensive TDs when Tyrod started last year? Yup. Thank goodness for the run game that scored almost 2/3 of those TDs. And again, not a single other team scored less than 50% of their TDs in the pass game. It may indeed reflect on Tyrod. Though the coaches may well have something to do with that. But perhaps that was in understanding of who their QB was. Beside the point, really. It really is very rare for teams ranking so low in the league in run percentage to win titles. It happens, but pretty much absolutely everything else has to fall perfectly. Yet none of the top 3 teams in pass attempts per game made the playoffs last year while two out of the bottom three teams in pass attempts per game did make the playoffs. I'm not sure there is a valid point here OP. You need to be able to throw it efficiently and at certain times when the run game is not going but you don't have to throw it all the time. If he'd argued that we had to be in the top three teams in the league in attempts ... but he didn't. When teams rank that high it's generally because they're way behind a lot and trying to catch up. I very much agree with you that you don't have to throw it all the time. In the end the only stat that matters is W's and L's. So, we're never going to talk again about any statistics of any sort except for Ws and Ls? Is that correct? People tend to make this argument when they'd rather not talk about the stat being discussed. Edited June 17, 2017 by Thurman#1
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 If he'd argued that we had to be in the top three teams in the league in attempts ... but he didn't. When teams rank that high it's generally because they're way behind a lot and trying to catch up. I very much agree with you that you don't have to throw it all the time. Forget top 3 then. Look at top 10 and bottom 10. Four out of the top ten teams made the playoffs. Not bad. But five out of the bottom 10 teams made the playoffs. That's even better. There is really zero correlation from what I can see.
Thurman#1 Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Atlanta was 27th overall. How did they end up last year? Yeah, but come on. The reasons that these two teams ended up with high run percentages was widely different. Here are how the two teams looked at run / pass percentages, divided by quarter. Falcs, by quarter 1st Quarter - Runs 94, Passes 131 … 42% runs 2nd Quarter - Runs 102, Passes 161 … 39% runs 3rd Quarter - Runs 109, Passes 139 … 44% runs 4th Quarter - Runs 113, Passes 102 … 53% runs OT - Runs 3, Passes 4 Bills, by quarter 1st Quarter - Runs 101, Passes 97 … 51% runs 2nd Quarter - Runs 129, Passes 146 … 47% runs 3rd Quarter - Runs 107, Passes 106 … 50% runs 4th Quarter - Runs 144, Passes 119 … 54% runs OT - Runs 11, Passes 6 The Bills were roughly the same quarter to quarter. They simply wanted to run more. Whereas the Falcons passed at much higher percentages through the first three quarters and then burnt clock in the fourth quarter because they were way ahead. The Bills didn't have the problem of being way ahead in a lot of games last year. Forget top 3 then. Look at top 10 and bottom 10. Four out of the top ten teams made the playoffs. Not bad. But five out of the bottom 10 teams made the playoffs. That's even better. There is really zero correlation from what I can see. And this is why. Good teams tend to be ahead and run more to run out the clock in the fourth quarter, which lowers their passing percentage from it's natural early-game numbers. That's not how it was for the Bills. And the four teams that made the NFC and AFC championship games were ranked 4th, 13th, 14th and the Falcons were 27th and I showed why. On the other hand, the four teams that made the playoffs with high run percentages (excepting Atlanta) were Miami, Dallas, Kansas City, and Seattle. One playoff win, Seattle over Detroit. It might not fall that evenly most years but without research I'd guess that it would tend to fall that way consistently, though with exceptions. And building a team on a template that tends to on the ceiling have one-and-done as opposed to a template that had all four of the top teams is not a wise move, I would argue. Edited June 17, 2017 by Thurman#1
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 And this is why. Good teams tend to be ahead and run more to run out the clock in the fourth quarter, which lowers their passing percentage from it's natural early-game numbers. That's not how it was for the Bills. You've given us stats for one team in the bottom 10 where this is the case, Atlanta. Does this still hold up for Seattle, Dallas, Miami and Kansas City? Can you please provide the link where you found the quarter rushing and passing splits. I'm having trouble locating those stats.
The Wiz Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 Yeah, but come on. The reasons that these two teams ended up with high run percentages was widely different. Here are how the two teams looked at run / pass percentages, divided by quarter. Falcs, by quarter 1st Quarter - Runs 94, Passes 131 … 42% runs 2nd Quarter - Runs 102, Passes 161 … 39% runs 3rd Quarter - Runs 109, Passes 139 … 44% runs 4th Quarter - Runs 113, Passes 102 … 53% runs OT - Runs 3, Passes 4 Bills, by quarter 1st Quarter - Runs 101, Passes 97 … 51% runs 2nd Quarter - Runs 129, Passes 146 … 47% runs 3rd Quarter - Runs 107, Passes 106 … 50% runs 4th Quarter - Runs 144, Passes 119 … 54% runs OT - Runs 11, Passes 6 The Bills were roughly the same quarter to quarter. They simply wanted to run more. Whereas the Falcons passed at much higher percentages through the first three quarters and then burnt clock in the fourth quarter because they were way ahead. The Bills didn't have the problem of being way ahead in a lot of games last year. So if the reason why the Falcons were running so much was to burn the clock in the 4th then the question would need to be asked why the hell were the bills running so much in the 4th quarter if they were playing from behind?
justnzane Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Okay, so in this the thread, the OP proves to be a dope as he wants the Bills to pass more. This is just idiotic as the offense controlled the clock and had one of the best ground attacks that put points on the board, which kept the inept defense off the field. Let's use our heads here before we start a thread about Taylor being not good because they don't pass a lot, and understand that a balanced attack is often a great thing. Edited June 17, 2017 by justnzane
Figster Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) You mean that the Bills D was bad? You get no argument from me there. But some people want to put all the blame on the defense and none on our below average pass game. Woh, nice pickup. I looked at that page and totally missed that. Holy cow, that's a huge difference. Better D stops the opponent more and gets more turnovers, which in turn gives our O the ball more with better field position. Do you see how that translates to more yardage points and wins? Edited June 17, 2017 by Figster
Reks Ryan Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 Looks like the same stat kept New Orleans and Baltimore out too Exactly and Arizona at #3. The Patriots were 13th, how did they manage to go 14 - 2. Efficiency is more important than attempts. NE and ATL were super efficient in the pass game and played from ahead so they didn't need as many attempts. The key is balance, game planning and game situation. If the Bills are top 10 in passing attempts this year, we're looking at very high draft pick. With the current roster on O, especially at QB and WR, the Bills best chance to be competitive is to run more than the league average. It doesn't help just to pass more if your not an effective passing team. Truly I thought the offensive plan last year came close to maxing out what could be expected of the Bills O. There were several horrendous defensive efforts like the 2 Miami games and giving up close to 400 yards to Fitzpatrick which were not lost due to offensive play calling.
mjt328 Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 Ugh. This again. According to the link you posted, the following teams were Top 5 in pass attempts: Baltimore, New Orleans, Arizona, Green Bay, Jacksonville One playoff team in the bunch, with a combined record of 35-44-1. The Super Bowl champion Patriots ranked 13th. The NFC champion Falcons ranked 27th. Again. It doesn't matter how much you pass or how much you run. It matters how much you score, and stop the other team from scoring. Your own link disproved whatever you were trying to say.
#34fan Posted June 17, 2017 Author Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Okay, so in this the thread, the OP proves to be a dope as he wants the Bills to pass more. This is just idiotic as the offense controlled the clock and had one of the best ground attacks that put points on the board, which kept the inept defense off the field. Let's use our heads here before we start a thread about Taylor being not good because they don't pass a lot, and understand that a balanced attack is often a great thing. Except that's not what happened... All the offense did was "gift" terrible field position to a defense that struggled with GOOD field position... And if by "controlling the clock" you mean limiting their own scoring opportunities, then yah, that's exactly what they did. Edited June 17, 2017 by #34fan
#34fan Posted June 17, 2017 Author Posted June 17, 2017 Ugh. This again. According to the link you posted, the following teams were Top 5 in pass attempts: Baltimore, New Orleans, Arizona, Green Bay, Jacksonville One playoff team in the bunch, with a combined record of 35-44-1. The Super Bowl champion Patriots ranked 13th. The NFC champion Falcons ranked 27th. Again. It doesn't matter how much you pass or how much you run. It matters how much you score, and stop the other team from scoring. Your own link disproved whatever you were trying to say. We were also dead last on completions per game... NE was #6... And on the bottom when It came to passing yards whereas NE was #4... But go ahead and make your argument in defense of dead last... I'm actually enjoying it.
Figster Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 We were also dead last on completions per game... NE was #6... And on the bottom when It came to passing yards whereas NE was #4... But go ahead and make your argument in defense of dead last... I'm actually enjoying it. If your dead last in attempts being dead last in completions is to be expected along with any other passing totals IMO.
aristocrat Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 Seahawks won a super bowl and went to another with similar offensive stats to ours. But they had the big defense Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#34fan Posted June 17, 2017 Author Posted June 17, 2017 We were 30th in points per field goal attempt too... That's another stat that hurt more than some may realize... Look, the FLOOR isn't the goal when it comes to passing in the modern NFL... Anyone arguing against change in that regard has simply given up on our QB situation...
John from Riverside Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 Seahawks won a super bowl and went to another with similar offensive stats to ours. But they had the big defense Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk To me the difference in the Seahawks teams is that Wilson made throws when the heat was up in certain games........this is what I would like to see Tyrod do (once again....im a big fan) We blow teams out and he is throwing for 2 scores and running for one....which is great but just would like to see production in the "key" moments increase. But like I said..that is not all on tyrod....playmakers make plays......we need them to do that
#34fan Posted June 17, 2017 Author Posted June 17, 2017 Seahawks won a super bowl and went to another with similar offensive stats to ours. But they had the big defense Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That Seattle team was top 5 in yards per completion, and top 10 in completion percentage... Yes, they had a killer D, and was ahead of Buffalo in rushing first down percentage....
#34fan Posted June 17, 2017 Author Posted June 17, 2017 To me the difference in the Seahawks teams is that Wilson made throws when the heat was up in certain games........this is what I would like to see Tyrod do (once again....im a big fan) We blow teams out and he is throwing for 2 scores and running for one....which is great but just would like to see production in the "key" moments increase. But like I said..that is not all on tyrod....playmakers make plays......we need them to do that Right now McCoy has a huge bullseye painted on his jersey... Opposing defenses will eventually develop ways to limit his impact... Other playmakers need the ball sent their way in order to make plays... it'll take major adjustment if TT wants to be that guy... FWIW, I hope Dennison provides an offense where TT has more help, and opportunities to pass downfield...
#34fan Posted June 17, 2017 Author Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Top 7 in offensive touchdowns. It doesn't mean a damn how they get the points. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? More attempts from a more confident passer might have meant even more TD's... Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?... If we were 14th or 15th in attempts we could have very well won more games... TT pulled the ball down and hauled-azz on many occasions where he could have thrown downfield.... Are we still denying this after last season? Every time someone speaks the truth they get attacked by TT cabana-boys defending their master... What could anyone possibly have against this stat being improved?... smh... Edited June 17, 2017 by #34fan
H2o Posted June 17, 2017 Posted June 17, 2017 Yup. Thank goodness for the run game that scored almost 2/3 of those TDs. And again, not a single other team scored less than 50% of their TDs in the pass game. It may indeed reflect on Tyrod. Though the coaches may well have something to do with that. But perhaps that was in understanding of who their QB was. Beside the point, really. It really is very rare for teams ranking so low in the league in run percentage to win titles. It happens, but pretty much absolutely everything else has to fall perfectly. If he'd argued that we had to be in the top three teams in the league in attempts ... but he didn't. When teams rank that high it's generally because they're way behind a lot and trying to catch up. I very much agree with you that you don't have to throw it all the time. So, we're never going to talk again about any statistics of any sort except for Ws and Ls? Is that correct? People tend to make this argument when they'd rather not talk about the stat being discussed. Dear God, get over yourself. You are not Johnnie Cochran and this isn't an LA courtroom. Yes, we do talk about statistics. We talk about them all of the time around here. Common sense tells you though that the more you run the ball the less pass attempts you will have. In the end though the only thing that matters is wins and losses, how you get there is by your respective team's own design.
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