Kirby Jackson Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) What Decker news did I make up? Was there even a point in debating you if you just close your eyes to the fact that out of the top 10 highest paid FA's WR's each year since 2014, they went to teams with franchise QB's at a 3:1 ratio. Yes, you can overpay and get your guy if you really want. See Decker so years ago. But the trend is clear. Its scary you don't see it. That's not true. I'm not sure where you are drawing the line on "franchise QB" but if they are going somewhere with a guy below 16 how can they be making a decision based on QB when more than half of the QBs in the league are better? No one is going to a team with the 20th best QB BECAUSE of the 20th best QB. Edited June 19, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 That's not true. It is. I showed you the numbers. Are you one of those posters who cites Brady as "proof" that most late round QB's don't suck? It sounds like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Exactly. That's what's confusing on why he's holding out. Doesn't sound like there's a team that's met his asking price and I doubt a team will go up a few million more if a starting TE goes down in training camp. no one has even had him in for a visit yet other than Buffalo. He got cut from the Browns, who have no vet TE now and where there was certainly more than enough cap space to keep him. No reason for the Bills to up their offer yet, when they aren't bidding against anyone else but themselves. Edited June 19, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) It is. I showed you the numbers. Are you one of those posters who cites Brady as "proof" that most late round QB's don't suck? It sounds like it. If you think that second part you've probably missed about 10,000 of my posts. I've been saying the exact opposite of that for years. Go ahead and lay out the top 10 and their QBs in each of the last 4 years. If 30 of them have QBs in the top half of the league I will say that you are right. You know that's not going to be the case. I've already looked at it and know that it isn't the case. Like I told you last week, take the loss and move on to a different argument (bring facts though). QBs (of top 10 total value in order): 2017: Hoyer, Goff, Winston, Kessler, Dak, Wentz, Flacco, Glennon, Brees 2016: Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, Mariota, Wilson, Flacco, Mariota, Stafford, Dalton, Kaep 2015: Alex Smith, Kaep, Luck, Eli, Cutler, Hoyer, Mariota (before he was drafted), Rivers, Foles, Tannehill 2014: Geno, Stafford, RG3, Brady, RG3, Peyton, Flacco, Flacco, Schaub, Palmer I'm not seeing the correlation between top FAs going to top QBs. In fact, over the last 4 years the top guy went to Geno, Alex Smith, Stafford and Hoyer. Outside of Stafford I'm not sure how you would say QB influenced any of those guys? Edited June 19, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Huh? Didn't you just make up that Maclin picked Baltimore because his wife made the decision? I didn't make it up. it was part of the decision I'm sure. I never said it was the sole factor. unlike your made up story about decker. She grew up around here. I believe she went to Hilton Elementary School. She was there until she was nine or 10, then moved to Philly.” “Everything that my wife said was always about Baltimore. I think that was probably a good sign as well. Happy wife, happy life!” he also must dig crabcakes over wings...? And, yes, crab cakes for life is “an added bonus for sure.” http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ravens-Day-2-Minicamp-Transcripts/7b59271d-363d-4d23-a8bb-2d4cd8fd785f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) For Maclin, I think he considered the Bills due to Shady -- and that's it. I also think the Bills mostly considered him due to Shady and didn't seem overly interested. Unless they way overpaid he was going to the Ravens. Interestingly no one else even had him for a visit. That means no one else was interested at his price and/or he only wanted Baltimore. He would have considered Philly as his second choice if they made an offer. They expressed late interest but no offer. Edited June 19, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 What Decker news did I make up? Another WR picks another good QB over Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Another WR picks another good QB over Taylor. It seems he also picked Mariota over Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger and Matt Ryan. We don't know that they didn't make an offer! Edited June 19, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) If you think that second part you've probably missed about 10,000 of my posts. I've been saying the exact opposite of that for years. Go ahead and lay out the top 10 and their QBs in each of the last 4 years. If 30 of them have QBs in the top half of the league I will say that you are right. You know that's not going to be the case. I've already looked at it and know that it isn't the case. Like I told you last week, take the loss and move on to a different argument (bring facts though). I've never said they were QB's 1-15. That's you. Are you having conversations in your head? It's easy to pretend you've won when you're apparently debating yourself. Edited June 19, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I've never said they were QB's 1-15. That's you. Are you having conversations in your head?Numbers posted above. Go ahead and name the 30... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Numbers posted above. Go ahead and name the 30... Huh? Are you talking to the ghost of Bruce Willis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I'm not even sure that the Jags have made an offer. That's what he wants but I don't know if it's happened. That should tell you what kind of offer he has from the Bills. And that what makes his negotiating stance inexplicable. As of now, only Bills gave him an offer. If he was worth a few million more, somebody would have ponied up an amount higher than Buffalo's low ball offer. Yet nobody has, which establishes his market at the vet minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Huh? Are you talking to the ghost of Bruce Willis? The 40 guys are posted above. You said it was 3:1. That would mean that 30 of those QBs were the deciding factor for a FA. If you think that a guy is going to SF BECAUSE of Brian Hoyer go for it. I'm sure FA's are falling all over themselves to play with a rotation of Kaepernick and Gabbert. Even 2015 Mariota, he wasn't even on the roster when FA took place. There isn't the correlation that you keep insisting exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 It seems he also picked Mariota over Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger and Matt Ryan. We don't know that they didn't make an offer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I've never said they were QB's 1-15. That's you. Are you having conversations in your head? It's easy to pretend you've won when you're apparently debating yourself. I don't know how you can logically say that a guy is going to the 20th best QB situation because of the QB? I split the league in half. No one says a guy is going to a good defense if the defense is in the bottom half of the league. Receivers aren't going to the Bengals BECAUSE of Dalton. That may be the case with Brady, Brees, etc... but not guys like Dalton, Flacco, Tannehill, Tyrod, Alex Smith... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 And that what makes his negotiating stance inexplicable. As of now, only Bills gave him an offer. If he was worth a few million more, somebody would have ponied up an amount higher than Buffalo's low ball offer. Yet nobody has, which establishes his market at the vet minimum. He is probably just in no hurry to sign given the current offer and has a deadline in mind (TC, probably) as to when he wants to have a team. You never know what could happen between now and then. He could get the same off from the Jags, an offer from the Pats, etc or a better offer elsewhere. It's at that point the Bills can decide how much they want to increase their offer if they really want him. He wants to be a #1 TE as he said. At this point the Bills don't "need him" to be that. They can stick with his value until it changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 The 40 guys are posted above. You said it was 3:1. That would mean that 30 of those QBs were the deciding factor for a FA. If you think that a guy is going to SF BECAUSE of Brian Hoyer go for it. I'm sure FA's are falling all over themselves to play with a rotation of Kaepernick and Gabbert. Even 2015 Mariota, he wasn't even on the roster when FA took place. There isn't the correlation that you keep insisting exists. I didn't include Hoyer, Kaep or Gabbert in that evaluation. You're kidding, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I didn't include Hoyer, Kaep or Gabbert in that evaluation. You're kidding, right?You still haven't listed the 30 of those 40 guys that made the decision based on the QB. The list is on the previous page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 If you think that second part you've probably missed about 10,000 of my posts. I've been saying the exact opposite of that for years. Go ahead and lay out the top 10 and their QBs in each of the last 4 years. If 30 of them have QBs in the top half of the league I will say that you are right. You know that's not going to be the case. I've already looked at it and know that it isn't the case. Like I told you last week, take the loss and move on to a different argument (bring facts though). QBs (of top 10 total value in order): 2017: Hoyer, Goff, Winston, Kessler, Dak, Wentz, Flacco, Glennon, Brees 2016: Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, Mariota, Wilson, Flacco, Mariota, Stafford, Dalton, Kaep 2015: Alex Smith, Kaep, Luck, Eli, Cutler, Hoyer, Mariota (before he was drafted), Rivers, Foles, Tannehill 2014: Geno, Stafford, RG3, Brady, RG3, Peyton, Flacco, Flacco, Schaub, Palmer I'm not seeing the correlation between top FAs going to top QBs. In fact, over the last 4 years the top guy went to Geno, Alex Smith, Stafford and Hoyer. Outside of Stafford I'm not sure how you would say QB influenced any of those guys? The highest paid WR on the market usually went to a worse team. Woah, you're blowing my mind man! Next you're gonna tell me if you pay players $100M, they'll go anywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 The highest paid WR on the market usually went to a worse team. Woah, you're blowing my mind man! Next you're gonna tell me if you pay players $100M, they'll go anywhere!I'm not the one that said that 3 out of 4 are making their decision because of the QB. That's what you said but now that it's out there you are back pedaling. It's okay to be wrong. We are all wrong on here a lot. When you try to use fake stats to support the narrative that you are trying to write don't be surprised when you get called out with the real facts. I count about 21 going to top end QBs and 19 going to middle of the road or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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