What would you trade for Phil Rivers right now?

[racketmaster]

If you want to be considered a present day franchise qb, don't lose to the Browns. Rivers still puts up some nice passing stats but he has not done a lot of winning since Tomlinson left. Rivers coming to Buffalo would be like Bledsoe 2.0. I don't need to see that again.

Edited June 8, 2017 by racketmaster

[muppy]

Rivers has a no trades clause in his contract as was already stated so the discussion here is Moot.

[reddogblitz]

6 of our 8 losses (with Tyrod) were by 7 points or less

In 4 of those losses we had a chance to win IF Hotrod had been able to get us points or in the EZ LATE in the 4th quarter. Baltimore, 2nd Fish game, Hawks, and Stealers. These losses can't be blamed solely on D.

 

This is my ONLY gripe with Hotrod. He simply HAS to play better in circumstances like this. All good teams win a handful of games like that every year.

Edited June 8, 2017 by reddogblitz

[Thurman#1]

If you want to be considered a present day franchise qb, don't lose to the Browns. Rivers still puts up some nice passing stats but he has not done a lot of winning since Tomlinson left. Rivers coming to Buffalo would be like Bledsoe 2.0. I don't need to see that again.

 

 

Rivers didn't lose to the Browns. QBs don't lose. Teams do.

 

And I don't think it's all that crazy to say that Rivers, who had a decent game for the pressure he was under, was less responsible for that loss than the Bolts run game, which managed a total of 34 yards on 19 rushes, or the OL which allowed nine sacks of Rivers, or the defense which allowed the Browns 124 yards rushing on 29 carries, including two TDs, and also allowed Griffin and Kessler to go 19 for 28 on them.

 

Rivers didn't lose that game. The San Diego Chargers did.

 

Rivers is better than Bledsoe was. But yeah, maybe age will catch up to him very soon. It caught up to Bledsoe when he was younger than most. That's the risk with older QBs, injury and age-based performance decline. Best guess is that he probably has another two years, maybe three. But there's no way to say.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

I know you were not advocating trading no. 1 picks for Rivers. To answer your question, though, I would rather have Tyrod than Rivers for 2017. Rivers is 36 years old, is coming off a down year, and he carries a huge cap number. His team has not won more than 9 games in a season since 2009. He is no longer a franchise QB (if he ever was one in the first place). Based on his relative lack of starting experience, having better weapons at his disposal, and what I think will be a better system for him to operate in, I expect Tyrod to be much improved in 2017. It's also worth mentioning that Rivers is a statue.

 

 

Very few people would share that opinion, I suspect and nearly all of those are Buffalo fans and Tyrod fans in particular.

 

Rivers had a good but not great year last year with an awful OL and an absolutely wretched run game that was completely unable to prevent teams from putting all their defensive resources towards stopping Rivers. The Chargers run game averaged 3.8 YPC last year. That's just awful.

 

Defenses sure weren't saying about Rivers that they just wanted to make him be a QB.

 

And Rivers is in no way a statue. The only way you could say that is if you compare him to guys like Tyrod. He still moves very well in the pocket and even makes some decent runs when given room. No, he'll never be a Vick or a Tyrod or a Steve Young but he still moves in the pocket a ton better than someone like Bledsoe did after he his legs went and people started to use that word about him.

 

 

The good arguments against Rivers are money ... he's worth it but the Bills don't have it. And age.

 

And the fact that he simply isn't going to come to Buffalo.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Chandler#81]

I'd trade 3- 1st's and Tyrod for Aaron Rodgers. Wouldn't consider any other trade for any other starting QB.

[Best Player Available]

I'd trade 3- 1st's and Tyrod for Aaron Rodgers. Wouldn't consider any other trade for any other starting QB.

Even that is a huge price. But he should have 4 good years left. Him and #14 would be nice.

[BuffaloHokie13]

In 4 of those losses we had a chance to win IF Hotrod had been able to get us points or in the EZ LATE in the 4th quarter. Baltimore, 2nd Fish game, Hawks, and Stealers. These losses can't be blamed solely on D.

 

This is my ONLY gripe with Hotrod. He simply HAS to play better in circumstances like this. All good teams win a handful of games like that every year.

Not even close to the point I was making.

[GunnerBill]

When a guy is 36 years old, down years usually can't be attributed to bad luck. It could be Rivers was just unlucky last year, but it's more likely that he's in decline. As to 2015, his numbers were definitely better, but the team finished 4-12. I don't follow the Chargers and I doubt I watched a single one of their games in 2015, but I'm guessing a lot of his yards and TDs were in garbage time.

 

At any rate, I think Rivers is a pretty good QB, but he's certainly not one for whom I would trade much of value, at least at this point in his career. He hasn't won more than 9 games in a season since 2009, and even when he was winning a lot of games, he had a history of playing poorly in big games. In my mind, that's not a true franchise QB. Tyrod is far from perfect, but he does a lot of things well and, IMO, he's got upside, while Rivers is unquestionably in the twilight of his career. And Rivers is a statue.

 

 

To me he has been totally hung out to dry by an incompetent organisation incapable of putting pieces around him. His offensive line has been a mess, his running game inconsistent, their defense MIA and his only genuine top flight weapon constantly injured. Drew Brees has only won more than 7 games once in 5 years - he is still elite. Talent around every quarterback not name Brady or P. Manning (not even sure I have Rodgers there to be honest Green Bay has always given him a line and weapons) matters.

 

I've watched plenty Phil Rivers the last two seasons. I don't even think he was bad last year..... he was forcing throws in the 4th Qrtr a lot because they were always behind (9 of his 21 INTs were in the 4th) but for the same people who make excuses about Tyrod's weapons to castigate Rivers for the Chargers only winning 5 games is incredible. His top receiver last year went into the season with TWO NFL receptions to his name. Another point worth making is that Rivers left the field with the Chargers in the lead multiple times - the defense couldn't top anyone... and that is without mentioning the game against the Raiders where Rivers led them down the field for a game tying chip shot FG as time expired only for the special teams to bungle it and fumble the snap.

 

Not even close for me. Rivers is still a top 6 or 7 Quarterback.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

If you want to be considered a present day franchise qb, don't lose to the Browns. Rivers still puts up some nice passing stats but he has not done a lot of winning since Tomlinson left. Rivers coming to Buffalo would be like Bledsoe 2.0. I don't need to see that agai

did taylor lose to the Jets or did the Bills lose ?

 

 

 

Oh, please. Comparing Rivers and Cutler is like comparing Ruth's Chris prime rib and a Quarter Pounder.

 

San Diego hasn't won a Lombardi because football is a team game and even an elite QB needs to be surrounded by a solid team to go far in the playoffs.

 

But they made a conference championship during Rivers' time there. They've won four playoff games from a very quick count and made the playoffs five or six times, mostly in Rivers' early years when they had a decent but not great GM.

Sd had the pats beat in a playoff game and the dumb corner fumbled after an int instead of taking a knee

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

 

To me he has been totally hung out to dry by an incompetent organisation incapable of putting pieces around him. His offensive line has been a mess, his running game inconsistent, their defense MIA and his only genuine top flight weapon constantly injured. Drew Brees has only won more than 7 games once in 5 years - he is still elite. Talent around every quarterback not name Brady or P. Manning (not even sure I have Rodgers there to be honest Green Bay has always given him a line and weapons) matters.

 

I've watched plenty Phil Rivers the last two seasons. I don't even think he was bad last year..... he was forcing throws in the 4th Qrtr a lot because they were always behind (9 of his 21 INTs were in the 4th) but for the same people who make excuses about Tyrod's weapons to castigate Rivers for the Chargers only winning 5 games is incredible. His top receiver last year went into the season with TWO NFL receptions to his name. Another point worth making is that Rivers left the field with the Chargers in the lead multiple times - the defense couldn't top anyone... and that is without mentioning the game against the Raiders where Rivers led them down the field for a game tying chip shot FG as time expired only for the special teams to bungle it and fumble the snap.

 

Not even close for me. Rivers is still a top 6 or 7 Quarterback.

I understand and respect your position, I just disagree based on the players right now. Everyone's got their stat, I personally really like ANY/A for QB performance. Generally speaking, if over the course of a season your ANY/A is 7 or higher it was a really good year. In Rivers' 11 years starting, he's broken the 7.0 mark 4 times (over 8.0 twice!). Unfortunately, he's only done it once since 2010. Tyrod has been a starter for 2 years, and he broke 7 once so far. For reference I'll give you the guys who've met this mark the past 2 years.

 

2016:

Matt Ryan

Tom Brady

Dak Prescott

Kirk Cousins

Drew Brees

Aaron Rodgers

Derek Carr

Marcus Mariota

 

2015:

Carson Palmer

Andy Dalton

Russell Wilson

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Cam Newton

Ben Roethlisberger

Kirk Cousins

Tyrod Taylor

[GunnerBill]

I understand and respect your position, I just disagree based on the players right now. Everyone's got their stat, I personally really like ANY/A for QB performance. Generally speaking, if over the course of a season your ANY/A is 7 or higher it was a really good year. In Rivers' 11 years starting, he's broken the 7.0 mark 4 times (over 8.0 twice!). Unfortunately, he's only done it once since 2010.

 

He has been on some bad teams since 2010. If you put Rivers on this team we are a playoff team. No question about it in my mind. The Bills are way more talented than the Chargers. I might take maybe 4 of their guys on defense and possibly 2 on offense (aside from Rivers) over ours. If people want reasons why the Chargers haven't been good there are lots and lots of them. I challenge anyone to go back and watch their tape from the last 2 years and say one of those reasons is Rivers. He remains the best thing about that team (though I'll give Bosa his props... he is 2nd).

 

I can't imagine a single non-Bills fan who has looked at the tape would want Tyrod over Rivers.

Edited June 8, 2017 by GunnerBill

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I can't imagine a single non-Bills fan who has looked at the tape would want Tyrod over Rivers.

Of course not. The rest of the league had no interest in Taylor whereas Rivers is one of the best. Not even close.

[racketmaster]

 

 

Very few people would share that opinion, I suspect and nearly all of those are Buffalo fans and Tyrod fans in particular.

 

Rivers had a good but not great year last year with an awful OL and an absolutely wretched run game that was completely unable to prevent teams from putting all their defensive resources towards stopping Rivers. The Chargers run game averaged 3.8 YPC last year. That's just awful.

 

Defenses sure weren't saying about Rivers that they just wanted to make him be a QB.

 

And Rivers is in no way a statue. The only way you could say that is if you compare him to guys like Tyrod. He still moves very well in the pocket and even makes some decent runs when given room. No, he'll never be a Vick or a Tyrod or a Steve Young but he still moves in the pocket a ton better than someone like Bledsoe did after he his legs went and people started to use that word about him.

 

 

The good arguments against Rivers are money ... he's worth it but the Bills don't have it. And age.

 

And the fact that he simply isn't going to come to Buffalo.

Rivers is a statue by today's standards. This is one of his biggest liabilities at this point in his career and defenses know exactly where he will be once the ball is snapped. Brady compensates with a quicker more compact delivery as he will pick teams apart with short and intermediate throws. Rivers likes to hold onto the ball a little longer and get the ball down the field. As a result he takes more sacks and has more fumbles in the pocket. Add that with his propensity to throw interceptions and the negative plays are hard to overcome, even if he is throwing for 300+ yards a game.

did taylor lose to the Jets or did the Bills lose ?

Sd had the pats beat in a playoff game and the dumb corner fumbled after an int instead of taking a knee

I only point this out because Taylor gets a ton of heat from many posters for not winning enough games to get the Bills to the playoffs. He has a 15-14 record in his 2 years as a starting qb and during that time Rivers has managed to win only 9 games with SD. I know Rivers is a big name and it is blasphemy to criticize his play, but at what point does Rivers get his share of the blame for winning 4-5 games a year? I hear all the time that the Bills need to just get a franchise qb and then we are all set. By that standard, Rivers is no longer a franchise qb because he cannot even get close to the playoffs.

 

There is a new era for qbs coming and Rivers is no longer a franchise qb. He will still post some good fantasy numbers but so does Blake Bortles and he does not win either. There is more to playing qb than just putting up big passing numbers. I may be in the minority, but at this point in their careers, I truly believe that Taylor is closer to being a franchise qb than Rivers (his record is well below .500 since Tomlinson left SD at the end of the 2009 season).

Of course not. The rest of the league had no interest in Taylor whereas Rivers is one of the best. Not even close.

Rivers is no where close to the best in 2017. If he actually was one of the best, we need to all reevaluate the importance of the qb position. Franchise qbs are supposed to equal wins and they are supposed to make everyone on the team better. If that is the case, Rivers is failing badly. He has a lot of flaws in his game right now with turnovers and lack of mobility being chief among them.

[mead107]

People, let it go.

[reddogblitz]

Not even close to the point I was making.

Perhaps. But just curious, do you think Hotrod needs to do a lot better when we have a chance to win late in the 4th?

 

I'm a Hotrod guy. But this part of his game needs a lot of improvement IMHO.

[Chandler#81]

In 4 of those losses we had a chance to win IF Hotrod had been able to get us points or in the EZ LATE in the 4th quarter. Baltimore, 2nd Fish game, Hawks, and Stealers. These losses can't be blamed solely on D.

 

This is my ONLY gripe with Hotrod. He simply HAS to play better in circumstances like this. All good teams win a handful of games like that every year.

 

This is my only issue with Tyrod as well. This said, we haven't been in a lot of close games where it actually was his FAULT we didn't pull out a win. He's led us to leads in the final minutes a couple times, only to lose because we couldn't hold the opponent without a final score. Also recall a Shady fumble at the goal line vs. Pats* that killed a comeback..

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

People, let it go.

exactly.

 

It isn't going to happen.

[Nuncha]

Nothing, nada, zilch, zero..zip.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Perhaps. But just curious, do you think Hotrod needs to do a lot better when we have a chance to win late in the 4th?

 

I'm a Hotrod guy. But this part of his game needs a lot of improvement IMHO.

He needs to do better, as does the defense. I expect both this year.