BringBackOrton Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) I'm not trying to be "right" and I reserve the right to change my opinion based upon changing circumstances. It is very easy to look back and see the questionable decisions made by the Bills in hindsight, even if at the time I tried to take an optimistic view of the situation **** on anyone who disagreed with my takes that are entirely based on who is currently employed by the Bills. I'm a fan. FTFY. Time is a flat circle. come on jmc....dont mince words you have been banging this drum since yesterday sir Mince words? Kirby thought that "Kenny Britt" invalidated what I was saying. Anything to make sure that TT doesn't get his feelings hurt when historically, most big name FA WR's go to teams with good QB's. I can't change reality. Edited June 13, 2017 by jmc12290
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Only? Are you putting words in my mouth?You asked about over the last 5 years. There is little to no correlation between QB play and FA wide receivers. They go where they get paid (like everyone else). FTFY. Time is a flat circle. Mince words? Kirby thought that "Kenny Britt" invalidated what I was saying. Anything to make sure that TT doesn't get his feelings hurt when historically, most big name FA WR's go to teams with good QB's. I can't change reality. ...and you can't support "that reality" either. That's the point. You thought that "most big name WRs go to teams with good QBs" but that has been proven false.
John from Riverside Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 FTFY. Time is a flat circle. Mince words? Kirby thought that "Kenny Britt" invalidated what I was saying. Anything to make sure that TT doesn't get his feelings hurt when historically, most big name FA WR's go to teams with good QB's. I can't change reality. Honestly you dont see a lot of "star" pass catcher's even hit the open market because teams dont let them get away....teams draft them and if they are part of their "core" they often get that second contract. it looks like the older vet guys that manage to hit free agency are pretty split on money and "fit" with money taking precedence over all. These guys have agents and those agents work on commission.....money is the highest determining factor.
BringBackOrton Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) You asked about over the last 5 years. There is little to no correlation between QB play and FA wide receivers. They go where they get paid (like everyone else). Interesting takeaway from the fact from 2014-2017, the top 40 FA WR's went to teams with good QB's at a 2:1 ratio, as demonstrated by both your and my numbers. Is 2 to 1 not a correlation? Even though only 3 AFC QB's have made the SB multiple times in the past 10 years, there's "little to no correlation between QB play and SB appearances?" Edited June 13, 2017 by jmc12290
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Interesting takeaway from the fact from 2014-2017, the top 40 FA WR's went to teams with good QB's at a 2:1 ratio, as demonstrated by both your and my numbers. Is 2 to 1 not a correlation? Even though only 3 AFC QB's have made the SB multiple times in the past 10 years, there's "little to no correlation between QB play and SB appearances?" Where are you drawing the line on "top QBs?" You can't go past probably 16 (half the league) which excludes guys like Wentz, Flacco, and certainly the other guys we discussed. I simply threw out a few names, not sure where you are getting 2:1 from? I'd be happy to read your list of the 40 players that signed with 2/3 of them to top QBs. Feel free to post that list; I'd be curious to see. We aren't talking about QB play and Super Bowls. There is evidence that good QBs win Super Bowls.
NewEra Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 The doubters never take into consideration what his running ability does, or his low turnover rate. And the TT Kool-Aid drinkers never take into consideration how his running ability and low turnover rate impair him as a QB in many instances. He's often taking off and running while his WRs are open. In situations where we NEED to convert a 3rd down, he won't let it rip and take a chance in order to prevent a turnover. In some instances at the end of the game (with a bad defense), a punt is a turnover. We've lost many a game because TT can't/won't trust his receivers and try and make a play. What we don't know: was this the coaching staff telling TT to play it safe or was it his instincts. Hopefully we'll get a better understanding this year and he steps up and makes some of those plays he missed on the last 2 years. I'm rooting for him, but remain skeptical until I see the change. Stats won't impress me. Ever. Moving the chains and scoring points with the game on the line in clutch moments will.
BringBackOrton Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 And Marshall went to NYG, Sanu Atlanta, Marvin Jones Detroit, Boldin Detroit, Desean Jackson TB, Maclin Baltimore, Jeffrey Philly, Patterson Oakland, Wallace Baltimore, Johnson Tennessee, LaFell Cincy, Benajmin SD. Those were all in the last two years off the top of my head. Looking it up, 9/10 of the highest WR contracts given to UFA in 2016 were on teams with franchise QB's. 9 out of the top 9 in fact. You gonna tell me that's a coincidence? Can you explain why the best WR Buffalo ever got in FA was the corpse of TO almost a decade ago? Let's talk about 2014. 13 out of the top 15 UFA WR's signed in 2014 went to franchise QB's. 10 out of the top 11. The only one who didn't in the top 10 was Decker, who got the biggest payday. Woah. You were saying about the "L?" In 2017, the highest paid receiver (total value) went to Hoyer, 2nd to Goff, 4th to Kessler, 6th to Wentz, 8th to Glennon. Your point that the top FA receivers only go to the top QBs is patently false. I would say 1,000+ yards in that dynamic Rams passing attack would classify as "good veteran receiver." 2 years ago Maclin went to play with Alex Smith, Royal went to play with Cutler, Bowe went to play with Manziel, Torrey Smith with Kaep, and Britt with Foles. Those were the 1,2,4,6, and 9th highest wide receiver contracts signed that year. Do you want me to keep going or do you just want to take the "L" and backtrack? I know that's what you think but the numbers have never supported him making guys better. Sammy has already produced at that elite level when targeted. The 13 passes correlates to extra targets. Extra targets get him extra yards. If the Bills and Ravens targeted Sammy the same I don't think that the numbers would be very different. In fact, the Bills big play offense and other playmakers may make him more productive. 9-10 targets a game and he's a 1300-1400 yard guy. Where are you drawing the line on "top QBs?" You can't go past probably 16 (half the league) which excludes guys like Wentz, Flacco, and certainly the other guys we discussed. I simply threw out a few names, not sure where you are getting 2:1 from? I'd be happy to read your list of the 40 players that signed with 2/3 of them to top QBs. Feel free to post that list; I'd be curious to see. We aren't talking about QB play and Super Bowls. There is evidence that good QBs win Super Bowls. I just did addition. 9+10+5+5/41 It's actually closer to 3:1.
Doc Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 You don't seem to understand Beane's failings here. 1) the team isn't ready to compete for playoffs and we'd be close to having very little cap room had we signed him. So he SHOULDN'T HAVE PURSUED Maclin. Decision to pursue Maclin despite cap challenges, FAIL #1. So he made the bad decision, and goes for Maclin. Puts up similar money as Ravens on the table, same kind of guarantee. He didn't do a good enough job SELLING to Maclin that he'd be happier and more successful here in Buffalo. That's FAIL #2. Bean got lucky that his bad decision didn't result in a worse outcome for the team. Being LUCKY doesn't recuse him from his BAD DECISION and FAILURE TO LURE A FREE AGENT after deciding to go for it. Ridiculous. The Bills were smart to kick the tires on Maclin and see if they could get him for a reasonable deal. The Ravens gave him a very generous contract. So he went there.
JM2009 Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Sal MaioranaVerified account @salmaiorana 59m59 minutes ago More The Ravens reportedly signed Maclin to a 2-year, $11.5 million deal. The Bills would not, nor should they have, done that. No way.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) I just did addition. 9+10+5+5/41 It's actually closer to 3:1. We need to look at the top 10 WR contracts in each of the last 4 years and about 26 of those will have to be with top 16 QBs to be 2:1. I haven't gone through all 40 but I highly doubt that will be the case. If I have a few minutes this afternoon I'll try to do it. Just eyeballing it, we are talking about 1/2. So half the guys are going to play for the top 1/2 of the QBs and 1/2 are going to play for the bottom 1/2 of QBs. So as I said, little to no correlation. I will lay them all out later. Edited June 13, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
John from Riverside Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Sal MaioranaVerified account @salmaiorana 59m59 minutes agoMore The Ravens reportedly signed Maclin to a 2-year, $11.5 million deal. The Bills would not, nor should they have, done that. No way. If the ravens start running into injuries...they are gonna have to start cutting guys or using waterboy's to replace them People complain about OUR cap management....the Ravens is even worse
JohnBonhamRocks Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Sal MaioranaVerified account @salmaiorana 59m59 minutes agoMore The Ravens reportedly signed Maclin to a 2-year, $11.5 million deal. The Bills would not, nor should they have, done that. No way. So, $5.75M/year for a top-end WR2? If it came down to money, then we made the wrong move, assuming no medical issues.
John from Riverside Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 So, $5.75M/year for a top-end WR2? If it came down to money, then we made the wrong move, assuming no medical issues. I really dont think it came down to money..... Happy wife happy life
JM2009 Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Jay SkurskiVerified account @JaySkurski 3h3 hours agoMore McDermott on the #Bills' potential interest in Eric Decker: "We're always going to look." http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/13/tyrod-taylors-character-has-impressed-sean-mcdermott/ "While Taylor has consistently shown that he is a leader throughout his time in Buffalo, these quotes are particularly interesting due to the fact that neither McDermott nor general manager Brandon Beane hascommitted to Taylor as the team’s starting quarterback next season. While Taylor is the presumptive starter, the Bills’ front office is going to make the 27-year-old earn his spot. He appears to be well on his way to doing so, as his character and leadership ability have seemingly already separated him from the pack."
26CornerBlitz Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Jay SkurskiVerified account @JaySkurski 3h3 hours agoMore McDermott on the #Bills' potential interest in Eric Decker: "We're always going to look." http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/13/tyrod-taylors-character-has-impressed-sean-mcdermott/ "While Taylor has consistently shown that he is a leader throughout his time in Buffalo, these quotes are particularly interesting due to the fact that neither McDermott nor general manager Brandon Beane hascommitted to Taylor as the team’s starting quarterback next season. While Taylor is the presumptive starter, the Bills’ front office is going to make the 27-year-old earn his spot. He appears to be well on his way to doing so, as his character and leadership ability have seemingly already separated him from the pack." What do either of these have to do with Maclin?
JohnBonhamRocks Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 What do either of these have to do with Maclin? Decker might be his teammate and Taylor... used to play for the Ravens?
JM2009 Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 What do either of these have to do with Maclin? Yep, this whole thread has had nothing but Maclin responses. SMH Should have just started a new thread-but then you'd say a thread wasn't needed. http://buffalonews.com/2017/06/13/jay-skurskis-3-bills-thoughts-missing-jeremy-maclin-hurts-top-100-list-cordy-glenns-future/ "1. The Buffalo Bills' inability to land free agent wide receiver Jeremy Maclin is a setback for the team. There's no point in trying to spin it any other way. How much of one, however, depends on your expectations for the franchise in 2017. If you think the Bills can challenge for a playoff spot, missing out on Maclin is a big blow. A top three of Sammy Watkins, Maclin and rookie Zay Jones looks way better on paper than one of Watkins, Jones and whoever. If you're of the mind that the Bills will need some time to be competitive under a new coaching staff, and potentially with a new quarterback, then missing out on Maclin isn't that big a deal. There are also quite a few unknowns right now, too. Was Maclin's ultimate goal the most money, or something else? He has a chance to be the Ravens' No. 1 receiver, which he wasn't going to get here. What kind of offer did the Bills make? That would tell us quite a bit about how they valued him. ESPN's report that Maclin's final decision came down to the Ravens and Philadelphia Eagles was perhaps most interesting Monday. He either really didn't like the money the Bills were offering, or something else about the franchise didn't appeal to him. The grim reality for the Bills -- and their fans, many of whom have an inferiority complex about the franchise -- is that until they turn around their losing ways on the field, they're always going to be underdogs when it comes to land free coveted free agents -- unless they're willing to pay an absurd premium (see: Williams, Mario)."
Chilly Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 that's an insult to any coke product. the dude would be a Tab. Tab is a Coke product https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(soft_drink)
mead107 Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Why do we want to keep this player conversation going? He is off the market. Wait, I know 75 away from 300.
JM2009 Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Why do we want to keep this player conversation going? He is off the market. Wait, I know 75 away from 300. Then why did you just add to the post count yourself?
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