SoTier Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 What specifically makes you say this? They are certainly different than the Ryan regime. Oh, I don't know ... maybe because as Bills fans we've been down this road before? Donahoe and Williams back in 2001 ... GM by Committee under the nominal head of Marv Levy and Jauron in 2006 ... Nix and Gailey in 2010 ... Whaley and Marrone in 2013 ... If you could resurrect all the pertinent posts on TBD and BBMB from when those combos were all new and shiny (ie, May/June of their initial years together), I'm sure you'd find at least as many posters "being all in" with those combos as with McDermott and Bean these days. You can cheerlead for the new regime if you like, but I'm skeptical that I'll be happy with them come December. Only 10 wins or a playoff berth will make me "all in with the new way of doing things", and I don't see that happening ... or likely to happen in the foreseeable future since the "new way of doing things" has too many disturbing echoes of "the old way of doing things". If things truly change, ie, the Bills start winning football games, then I'll gladly eat crow, but I doubt I'll have to be prowling food.com for crow recipes any time soon.
oldmanfan Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 Oh, I don't know ... maybe because as Bills fans we've been down this road before? Donahoe and Williams back in 2001 ... GM by Committee under the nominal head of Marv Levy and Jauron in 2006 ... Nix and Gailey in 2010 ... Whaley and Marrone in 2013 ... If you could resurrect all the pertinent posts on TBD and BBMB from when those combos were all new and shiny (ie, May/June of their initial years together), I'm sure you'd find at least as many posters "being all in" with those combos as with McDermott and Bean these days. You can cheerlead for the new regime if you like, but I'm skeptical that I'll be happy with them come December. Only 10 wins or a playoff berth will make me "all in with the new way of doing things", and I don't see that happening ... or likely to happen in the foreseeable future since the "new way of doing things" has too many disturbing echoes of "the old way of doing things". If things truly change, ie, the Bills start winning football games, then I'll gladly eat crow, but I doubt I'll have to be prowling food.com for crow recipes any time soon. I said their grade is incomplete and am nit cheerleading. Don't generalize for everyone you might disagree with
vorpma Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 Oh, I don't know ... maybe because as Bills fans we've been down this road before? Donahoe and Williams back in 2001 ... GM by Committee under the nominal head of Marv Levy and Jauron in 2006 ... Nix and Gailey in 2010 ... Whaley and Marrone in 2013 ... If you could resurrect all the pertinent posts on TBD and BBMB from when those combos were all new and shiny (ie, May/June of their initial years together), I'm sure you'd find at least as many posters "being all in" with those combos as with McDermott and Bean these days. You can cheerlead for the new regime if you like, but I'm skeptical that I'll be happy with them come December. Only 10 wins or a playoff berth will make me "all in with the new way of doing things", and I don't see that happening ... or likely to happen in the foreseeable future since the "new way of doing things" has too many disturbing echoes of "the old way of doing things". If things truly change, ie, the Bills start winning football games, then I'll gladly eat crow, but I doubt I'll have to be prowling food.com for crow recipes any time soon. You sound like a well rounded intelligent Bills fan!
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 Oh, I don't know ... maybe because as Bills fans we've been down this road before? Donahoe and Williams back in 2001 ... GM by Committee under the nominal head of Marv Levy and Jauron in 2006 ... Nix and Gailey in 2010 ... Whaley and Marrone in 2013 ... If you could resurrect all the pertinent posts on TBD and BBMB from when those combos were all new and shiny (ie, May/June of their initial years together), I'm sure you'd find at least as many posters "being all in" with those combos as with McDermott and Bean these days. You can cheerlead for the new regime if you like, but I'm skeptical that I'll be happy with them come December. Only 10 wins or a playoff berth will make me "all in with the new way of doing things", and I don't see that happening ... or likely to happen in the foreseeable future since the "new way of doing things" has too many disturbing echoes of "the old way of doing things". If things truly change, ie, the Bills start winning football games, then I'll gladly eat crow, but I doubt I'll have to be prowling food.com for crow recipes any time soon. ...just curious and yes it IS hindsight....who in that lineup gave you confidence during those eras that the schneid was done?......I will offer my opinion (JUST an opinion) as well................
KollegeStudnet Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 Overall, they have to do something impressive. I have not seen an impressive team put together/coached since before 2000
Rico Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 Oh, I don't know ... maybe because as Bills fans we've been down this road before? Donahoe and Williams back in 2001 ... GM by Committee under the nominal head of Marv Levy and Jauron in 2006 ... Nix and Gailey in 2010 ... Whaley and Marrone in 2013 ... If you could resurrect all the pertinent posts on TBD and BBMB from when those combos were all new and shiny (ie, May/June of their initial years together), I'm sure you'd find at least as many posters "being all in" with those combos as with McDermott and Bean these days. You can cheerlead for the new regime if you like, but I'm skeptical that I'll be happy with them come December. Only 10 wins or a playoff berth will make me "all in with the new way of doing things", and I don't see that happening ... or likely to happen in the foreseeable future since the "new way of doing things" has too many disturbing echoes of "the old way of doing things". If things truly change, ie, the Bills start winning football games, then I'll gladly eat crow, but I doubt I'll have to be prowling food.com for crow recipes any time soon. The common thread between all the previous regimes you mention is Ralph Wilson. He was directly involved in the earlier ones, and his Mini-Me stooge was involved in the later ones. This is the first regime where the stench of Ralph has been removed. The proven chump of a GM has been thrown to the curb, and the Mini-Me stooge has been rendered irrelevant. Without these changes, It was impossible to turn the team around as long as Ralph's trash still ran the football side of the front office, failure was far too strong and deep. Now there is hope. If the new regime cant get things done after 3 years, then yeah, it would be a mistake to keep them any longer. But by no means at all was it a mistake to finally clean house this year, the moves were long, LONG overdue. KEEP HOPE ALIVE!
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 ...here's my two cents.....first uh oh was Donohole needing to be named President, first in club history...why Tom?.....it was ego....greenhorn Williams was hired on the cheap at 900 grand because he would subordinate to El Presidente.......subsequent, Brandon put in positions not qualified for followed by Marv, Gailey, Jauron, Nix, etc, all retreads past their prime.....Marrone preached culture change which ws a good thing, but General Patton and his whip doesn't work with pro athetes (didn't Saban and Petrino flee back to the collegiate ranks)....Whaley is caught in the crossfire of this sadly patchwork mess and tries to make the best of it, but had the usual GM personnel gaffes which weer exacerbated by chalking up Year 17....last bonafide football operation actually run by football people goes back to Polian era...McD a greenhorn?...of course.....but seems to be highly detailed, specific, has been given credit for running the draft, reviewed 2016 OTA film and did not like the tempo, which equates to the same culture change Marrone new was necessary before he took off.....now to Admin/FO...the GM Beane hiring has attracted how many former VP's and former Personnel Directors?....they all can't be desperate for work and came to Buffalo as a last chance (detractors will say so)....so now the FO/Admin is comprised of a bunch of young gun 40 somethings who want to build a long term winner....on paper?...sure...best assembly of a football organization since Polian?....yes in my opinion.......
3rdand12 Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 The common thread between all the previous regimes you mention is Ralph Wilson. He was directly involved in the earlier ones, and his Mini-Me stooge was involved in the later ones. This is the first regime where the stench of Ralph has been removed. The proven chump of a GM has been thrown to the curb, and the Mini-Me stooge has been rendered irrelevant. Without these changes, It was impossible to turn the team around as long as Ralph's trash still ran the football side of the front office, failure was far too strong and deep. Now there is hope. If the new regime cant get things done after 3 years, then yeah, it would be a mistake to keep them any longer. But by no means at all was it a mistake to finally clean house this year, the moves were long, LONG overdue. KEEP HOPE ALIVE! God Save The Queen !!
JM2009 Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 The common thread between all the previous regimes you mention is Ralph Wilson. He was directly involved in the earlier ones, and his Mini-Me stooge was involved in the later ones. This is the first regime where the stench of Ralph has been removed. The proven chump of a GM has been thrown to the curb, and the Mini-Me stooge has been rendered irrelevant. Without these changes, It was impossible to turn the team around as long as Ralph's trash still ran the football side of the front office, failure was far too strong and deep. Now there is hope. If the new regime cant get things done after 3 years, then yeah, it would be a mistake to keep them any longer. But by no means at all was it a mistake to finally clean house this year, the moves were long, LONG overdue. KEEP HOPE ALIVE! Exactly. These hires are respected around the league and didn't come cheap for the Pegulas. this isn't the cheap hires of the past.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Exactly. These hires are respected around the league and didn't come cheap for the Pegulas. this isn't the cheap hires of the past. ...yes they are.....look at the former VP's and Pro Personnel Directors joining Beane's staff in BUFFALO (OMG-unheard of).....detractors will say they were desperate for work and so be it....look at the Wilson era versus Pegula era from an investment perspective....Wilson rolled the dice as a forty something in 1960 with a sizeable $25,000 investment (big then) in a fledgling football league.....and he sat back and watched his investment grow, opting for no re-investment of appreciation...don't WE sometimes hold on our investments as they grow?......fast forward through the 70's and 80's where he was chastised as the cheap absentee owner in Detroit and rightfully so....he did start to change somewhat in the 90's as his personal wealth grew....Pegula shows up ALREADY worth 4 BILLION.....different circumstances IMO....he wrote a check for $1.4 BILLION and it was hardly to field an embarrassing loser.....entitled to a learning curve to eventually get it right?...damn straight...and so far (yes on paper), he is atoning for his learning mistakes with no padlock on the checkbook IMO........... Edited May 31, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
JM2009 Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 ...yes they are.....look at the former VP's and Pro Personnel Directors joining Beane's staff in BUFFALO (OMG-unheard of).....detractors will say they were desperate for work and so be it....look at the Wilson era versus Pegula era from an investment perspective....Wilson rolled the dice as a forty something in 1960 with a sizeable $25,000 investment (big then) in a fledgling football league.....and he sat back and watched his investment grow, opting for no re-investment of appreciation...don't WE sometimes hold on our investments as they grow?......fast forward through the 70's and 80's where he was chastised as the cheap absentee owner in Detroit and rightfully so....he did start to change somewhat in the 90's as his personal wealth grew....Pegula shows up ALREADY worth 4 BILLION.....different circumstances IMO....he wrote a check for $1.4 BILLION and it was hardly to field an embarrassing loser.....entitled to a learning curve to eventually get it right?...damn straight...and so far (yes on paper), he is atoning for his learning mistakes with no padlock on the checkbook IMO........... I think he got it right with these hires. may not show totally till next season, but it will.
BillsPride12 Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 I think he got it right with these hires. may not show totally till next season, but it will. I think it might even take 2-3 years to show but I agree that it will as well. At this point I'd rather it take a couple more years if we are going to be built to last for a long time as opposed to squeaking in as a wild card team only to get bounced in the first round and have to reboot all over again.
JM2009 Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 I think it might even take 2-3 years to show but I agree that it will as well. At this point I'd rather it take a couple more years if we are going to be built to last for a long time as opposed to squeaking in as a wild card team only to get bounced in the first round and have to reboot all over again. The best scenario would be to make a WC in 2017 and continue to improve.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 I think he got it right with these hires. may not show totally till next season, but it will. ....it is all on paper so far relative to their pedigree.....and it may be this year or next (the "One Or Done" crowd will be getting the hanging ropes ready).....BUT......and yes I'm like a broken record, the assembly so far of top to bottom football personnel in charge of a FOOTBALL organization (no more patches) is the best since Polian era and could someday prove to be better.....40 something young guns is a damn good thing IMO....year 55 of following this club so my days are numbered hoping for JUST THE PLAYOFFS........
BillsPride12 Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 The best scenario would be to make a WC in 2017 and continue to improve. Not sure they get in this year, and I think there will still be quite some rebuilding to do with the roster to bring in guys that fit what McD wants to do
wilcoam Posted June 1, 2017 Posted June 1, 2017 I'm not sure, as fans, watching our divisional opponents make management changes, and then instantly win 10 or 11 games, all without so called franchise QB's, why we have to have patience, temper our expectations, while we bottom out, and take 4 years? We're not coming off back to back 3-4 win seasons, we are a perennial 7-9 win team, honestly I am cheering like crazy for Sean and Beane to succeed, but if takes them 4 years to build a contending team, than I can say with certainty they may not be the right folks for the job jc
SoTier Posted June 1, 2017 Posted June 1, 2017 ...just curious and yes it IS hindsight....who in that lineup gave you confidence during those eras that the schneid was done?......I will offer my opinion (JUST an opinion) as well................ I bought into the Donahoe/Williams, Nix/Gailey, and Whaley/Marrone. I even bought into Jauron as HC for a while until I realized exactly what he was doing to the team. In hindsight, I think that Nix/Gailey was the best of a poor lot since Butler/Phillips in 2000. Thanks to Jauron, the Bills by 2010 were probably as talent-less as an expansion team. Nix improved the talent immensely, and Gailey managed to get that crew to win a few games even though they didn't have a defense and a limited offense with Fitzpatrick at QB. Nix's only major faux pas, IMO, was trading Marshawn Lynch, and my guess is that that may have been ordered from higher up the corporate food chain. I think the Bills had decided to get rid of Lynch in 2009 before Nix became GM, which is why they drafted Spiller.
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