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The Bills decided to go with admin type guys. At head coach I would have preferred a top X's and O's guy. At GM I wanted to do a full search and hire the best talent evaluator money could buy.

 

The draft was an attempt to replace players that left for cheap. Not the hallmark of the best drafting teams in the NFL. And now the head coach who was handed Chip Kelly power by the Pegullibles decides not to pick up Sammy's option and start tough guy bravado on Dareus.

 

To me it feels like winter is coming.

First, I think you sell McDermott's X's & O's short. But more importantly, having an administrative, process driven, detail focused person at HC is perfectly fine for success as long as the coordinators understand the X's and O's below the HC. Our offensive success will rely heavily on Dennison's X's & O's. Our defense will on a much lesser extent, as McDermott has a system he wants implemented and Frazier is more likely to be more focused on calling the plays from that system (similar to Lynn calling plays from Roman's system, if you will).

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We have finally exorcised the ghost of Ralph Wilson from the organization.

 

Things at OBD seemed to start to slide when Ralph appointed Tom Donahoe to take over football operations.

 

Tom Donahoe, Tom Modrak, Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley..............they kept an atmosphere of 2nd class organization around here.

 

We are no longer trying to be "the little Pittsburgh Steelers"

 

Finally, there is a complete clear out......the demons are gone.

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If winter is coming put on a heavy coat and deal with the storm. Staying locked up in a house with the heat cranked up is a stifling way to encounter the cycles of life.

 

As far as your preferring a top X's and O's guy you are misinterpreting why teams usually win. For the most part more talent usually prevails over less talent. And to carry that notion out further the team usually with the better qb prevails over the team with the lesser qb. With the exception of Belichick coaches don't win because they outsmart other coaches. In fact, coaches who usually try to outsmart the opposition more often than not end up outsmarting themselves. Our dumb former HC thought he could out-design the opposition rather than have his team prepared to outplay the opposition. What a freaking dope!

 

 

 

Your criticism that the Bills mistakenly drafted to replace players thus forcing them to focus on need rather than talent is off the mark. As long as the drafted player is drafted in the approximate range of his ranking then what is the problem with that? If you don't reach because of a need then why complain that you are filling a hole that needs to be addressed one way or the other? From a production and salary standpoint it made sense to let Robert Woods go. He was replaced by a cheaper and hopefully as talented receiver. Player movement and cap management are an inescapable part of the landscape that all teams have to contend with.

 

I have said this on many posts much to the consternation of the loyalists. Now that a new organizational structure and complete new staffing is in place it is going to take at least three years to sort out the mess that preceded this new regime. There is no quick fix. Over time consistently acting competently instead of erratically will result in success. That's all you can hope for. This lurching back and forth resulted in a lot of motion accompanied with little intelligence. Where has it gotten us?

 

I agree that the team with the better QB wins. And so what did we do? Did we hire an offensive coach who also is a QB guru? If we had hired a Shanahan or a Jim Bob Cooter I would be thrilled. No, we hired another zone defense coach. And what was this new coach/GM's philosophy? Bring back Tyrod Taylor after he FAILED last year to do enough to justify picking up the option. And for what purpose? Because this is a playoff team? Because we need to win now? If so then win now. If you're going to rebuild, rebuild. Bills always try to middle things and it gets mediocre results. Not only that the contract is bad. 8,500,000 dead cap for a guy we might cut after this year? This is not smart planning or analytics. It's a punt from the 42 yard line.

 

Now let's get to the draft. Tre White was drafted in the right place. I won't get into who they passed because that has been exhausted to death. But it was a QB prospect that someone who was his former boss and QB guru wanted. That should have alerted Sean that he might not have the winning hand. Now to Zay Jones. I think he was not only a reach but we spent a 2nd AND 3rd on him. Terrible value for a future 2nd or 3rd possession receiver. Dawkins I love as a pick and where we got him. But again, to fill the need they gave away picks. You don't trade away picks when you are building or rebuilding to fill needs.

 

This same carelessness with draft picks came to their FA signings. Vlad Ducasse? WHY??? You don't pick up fat slobs that can't play when you just let your #1 corner and #2 WR walk for big money. You need to get value back using the NFL's formula.

 

Now to the time frame. I believe you are right that an owner should pick the best guys and show patience. But when have the Pegulas demonstrated this? They have fired their last two hired coaches in 2 or less years. You can hope this will be different but if the Bills win less then 8 games in 2017 and 2018 I believe we will be hiring a new GM and coach in January 2019.

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He has been specifically complementary of Dareus. Quit making things up.

 

....reported that McD went back and reviewed tapes of 2016 OTA's and was not happy with the tempo......seriously?.......think maybe the guy is hell bent on winning?......

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I agree that the team with the better QB wins. And so what did we do? Did we hire an offensive coach who also is a QB guru? If we had hired a Shanahan or a Jim Bob Cooter I would be thrilled. No, we hired another zone defense coach. And what was this new coach/GM's philosophy? Bring back Tyrod Taylor after he FAILED last year to do enough to justify picking up the option. And for what purpose? Because this is a playoff team? Because we need to win now? If so then win now. If you're going to rebuild, rebuild. Bills always try to middle things and it gets mediocre results. Not only that the contract is bad. 8,500,000 dead cap for a guy we might cut after this year? This is not smart planning or analytics. It's a punt from the 42 yard line.

 

Now let's get to the draft. Tre White was drafted in the right place. I won't get into who they passed because that has been exhausted to death. But it was a QB prospect that someone who was his former boss and QB guru wanted. That should have alerted Sean that he might not have the winning hand. Now to Zay Jones. I think he was not only a reach but we spent a 2nd AND 3rd on him. Terrible value for a future 2nd or 3rd possession receiver. Dawkins I love as a pick and where we got him. But again, to fill the need they gave away picks. You don't trade away picks when you are building or rebuilding to fill needs.

 

This same carelessness with draft picks came to their FA signings. Vlad Ducasse? WHY??? You don't pick up fat slobs that can't play when you just let your #1 corner and #2 WR walk for big money. You need to get value back using the NFL's formula.

 

Now to the time frame. I believe you are right that an owner should pick the best guys and show patience. But when have the Pegulas demonstrated this? They have fired their last two hired coaches in 2 or less years. You can hope this will be different but if the Bills win less then 8 games in 2017 and 2018 I believe we will be hiring a new GM and coach in January 2019.

With respect to the highlighted segment I think you are significantly misreading the situation. ( I say this respectfully.) Do you really believe that the Pegulas would essentially blow up the organization and start from scratch and expect a quick turnaround? Let's get serious here. If Pegula was satisfied with the Bills being stuck as a fringe team with the potential of being at best an 8-8 team he would have kept Whaley and the front office staff in tack and then separately hired a new HC. Not only did he fire Whaley but he in total dismissed the scouting staff. That isn't a sign of an owner looking for incremental changes. That is a sign of an owner/s willing to sacrifice in the short term with the hope that in the long term the franchise will be reconstituted and result in a contending team.

 

You and I completely agree on the qb issue and the opportunity that existed to address that issue in this draft. So there is no point in rehashing that issue. The empowered HC appears to believe that he will have better opportunities to get a franchise qb at a later time. We both disagree with his thinking but the decision has been made.

 

With respect to some of the other moves that the HC/GM made I'm not stressing over individual moves. Every decision can be challenged and every decision can be supported. When all is said and done what is really going to count is the overall body of work that will inevitably include mistakes.

 

The challenge as fans is not to get too consumed with a particular decision (except for the qb decision) but to try to keep the mind-set of how is the bigger picture being developed as time goes on. If fans are so frustrated and aren't willing to handle the predictable losses and set backs over the next two or maybe even three seasons then it might be better to get off the bus and then get back on at a later time.

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I agree that the team with the better QB wins. And so what did we do? Did we hire an offensive coach who also is a QB guru? If we had hired a Shanahan or a Jim Bob Cooter I would be thrilled. No, we hired another zone defense coach. And what was this new coach/GM's philosophy? Bring back Tyrod Taylor after he FAILED last year to do enough to justify picking up the option. And for what purpose? Because this is a playoff team? Because we need to win now? If so then win now. If you're going to rebuild, rebuild. Bills always try to middle things and it gets mediocre results. Not only that the contract is bad. 8,500,000 dead cap for a guy we might cut after this year? This is not smart planning or analytics. It's a punt from the 42 yard line.

 

Now let's get to the draft. Tre White was drafted in the right place. I won't get into who they passed because that has been exhausted to death. But it was a QB prospect that someone who was his former boss and QB guru wanted. That should have alerted Sean that he might not have the winning hand. Now to Zay Jones. I think he was not only a reach but we spent a 2nd AND 3rd on him. Terrible value for a future 2nd or 3rd possession receiver. Dawkins I love as a pick and where we got him. But again, to fill the need they gave away picks. You don't trade away picks when you are building or rebuilding to fill needs.

 

This same carelessness with draft picks came to their FA signings. Vlad Ducasse? WHY??? You don't pick up fat slobs that can't play when you just let your #1 corner and #2 WR walk for big money. You need to get value back using the NFL's formula.

 

Now to the time frame. I believe you are right that an owner should pick the best guys and show patience. But when have the Pegulas demonstrated this? They have fired their last two hired coaches in 2 or less years. You can hope this will be different but if the Bills win less then 8 games in 2017 and 2018 I believe we will be hiring a new GM and coach in January 2019.

Why do you fell Zay Jones is a 2nd or 3rd possession WR? He's not slow. He's not short. He's not just a slot WR. What in his game have you seen that makes you think he can't be a possible #1 or stud #2. He looks to have it all in all the games I've watched. Just curious as to why you think he's just an average guy.

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With respect to the highlighted segment I think you are significantly misreading the situation. ( I say this respectfully.) Do you really believe that the Pegulas would essentially blow up the organization and start from scratch and expect a quick turnaround? Let's get serious here. If Pegula was satisfied with the Bills being stuck as a fringe team with the potential of being at best an 8-8 team he would have kept Whaley and the front office staff in tack and then separately hired a new HC. Not only did he fire Whaley but he in total dismissed the scouting staff. That isn't a sign of an owner looking for incremental changes. That is a sign of an owner/s willing to sacrifice in the short term with the hope that in the long term the franchise will be reconstituted and result in a contending team.

 

You and I completely agree on the qb issue and the opportunity that existed to address that issue in this draft. So there is no point in rehashing that issue. The empowered HC appears to believe that he will have better opportunities to get a franchise qb at a later time. We both disagree with his thinking but the decision has been made.

 

With respect to some of the other moves that the HC/GM made I'm not stressing over individual moves. Every decision can be challenged and every decision can be supported. When all is said and done what is really going to count is the overall body of work that will inevitably include mistakes.

 

The challenge as fans is not to get too consumed with a particular decision (except for the qb decision) but to try to keep the mind-set of how is the bigger picture being developed as time goes on. If fans are so frustrated and aren't willing to handle the predictable losses and set backs over the next two or maybe even three seasons then it might be better to get off the bus and then get back on at a later time.

good post john.

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With respect to the highlighted segment I think you are significantly misreading the situation. ( I say this respectfully.) Do you really believe that the Pegulas would essentially blow up the organization and start from scratch and expect a quick turnaround? Let's get serious here. If Pegula was satisfied with the Bills being stuck as a fringe team with the potential of being at best an 8-8 team he would have kept Whaley and the front office staff in tack and then separately hired a new HC. Not only did he fire Whaley but he in total dismissed the scouting staff. That isn't a sign of an owner looking for incremental changes. That is a sign of an owner/s willing to sacrifice in the short term with the hope that in the long term the franchise will be reconstituted and result in a contending team.

 

You and I completely agree on the qb issue and the opportunity that existed to address that issue in this draft. So there is no point in rehashing that issue. The empowered HC appears to believe that he will have better opportunities to get a franchise qb at a later time. We both disagree with his thinking but the decision has been made.

 

With respect to some of the other moves that the HC/GM made I'm not stressing over individual moves. Every decision can be challenged and every decision can be supported. When all is said and done what is really going to count is the overall body of work that will inevitably include mistakes.

 

The challenge as fans is not to get too consumed with a particular decision (except for the qb decision) but to try to keep the mind-set of how is the bigger picture being developed as time goes on. If fans are so frustrated and aren't willing to handle the predictable losses and set backs over the next two or maybe even three seasons then it might be better to get off the bus and then get back on at a later time.

 

John, I think the problem is you are assuming a greater competence in the Bills ownership than they deserve. There is a capricious nature to how they run their teams that continues to this day.

 

I can highlight this with a few key points:

 

Sabres:

 

After running into Lafontaine twice Terry offers him the GM job.

 

Remarkably, Terry Pegula, after having met Pat LaFontaine just twice, offered him the Sabres’ general manager job during a dinner with the former Sabres player. Keep in mind, LaFontaine had never been a general manager. LaFontaine turned it down pointing out that he didn’t have the skills for that job.

 

What kind of hiring and firing process is this?

It’s one that seems spastic and inconsistent. This unorthodox and unrigorous process has resulted in at least one bad outcome: a newly hired President of Hockey Operations who resigned after just a few months on the job, leaving the Sabres with yet another public relations nightmare.

Now, during his time here, LaFontaine did hire Tim Murray to be the GM and it may be that Murray turns out to be a stellar personnel man. But, if it does, it has the feel of the blackjack player who hit on 17 and got a 4. It would be a lucky outcome from a bad process. https://www.buffalorising.com/2014/03/the-pegula-process-why-sabres-fans-should-be-worried/

 

Then we have the hiring of Rex Ryan when the Bills GM Doug Whaley told the Pegulas not to hire him for football reasons but the Pegulas were in love.

 

Then we get the firing of Rex Ryan and the Pegulas now fall in love with Sean McDermott before even interviewing him. They decided to meet McDermott first, on their yacht, without those pesky football guys (Whaley and Monos) getting in the way first!

It was notable that, the day before the "formal" interview that would include Whaley and former director of player personnel Jim Monos, the Pegulas invited McDermott to join them for dinner on their yacht in Boca Raton, Fla.

He had the Pegulas at "hello." He impressed them so much, that as Kim drove McDermott to the airport after the next day's six-hour session, she was already telling him to have his wife (who had been invited to Boca Raton as well, but couldn't make the trip) call her for information about housing and other essentials in Western New York.

Whaley's virtual disappearance from public view after McDermott's arrival wasn't a coincidence. It was a fulfillment of a condition of McDermott's employment.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/01/vic-caruccis-bills-wake-call-new-gm-wont-change-structure/

Again, the decision to fire Whaley was not a carefully thought out plan. He was part of the coaching search! It was the end result of falling love with the young DC from Carolina before ever even seeing him and handing him Chip Kelly type authority.

Why do you fell Zay Jones is a 2nd or 3rd possession WR? He's not slow. He's not short. He's not just a slot WR. What in his game have you seen that makes you think he can't be a possible #1 or stud #2. He looks to have it all in all the games I've watched. Just curious as to why you think he's just an average guy.

 

There are two methods you can use to evaluate players.

 

1.Scouting

2.Analytics

 

I believe actual old school scouting is the best method and should carry the most weight. One of the people I talked to said his nickname for Zay Jones was "glue" because he believed NFL DB's would stick to Jones like glue.

 

Then there is the analytics data. I think this should be applied by smart teams to top them off or recheck their work. Zay Jones also sets off alarm bells there.

 

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/zay-jones/

 

Lots of nice athletic numbers but an alarmingly low yards per catch.

 

Edited by jeffismagic
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Largest bills purge I have seen that starts all the way at the top........

 

If its a new clown car I am in the backseat.....:)

I think most agree with you- the "football side" has been gutted. Many fear, me included, that Brandon and Overdorff will still continue to stick there nose where it doesnt belong- lets hope thats not the case and this new staff punts them back over the line if the cross over. Edited by billsfan_34
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I'm all in because I have no other choice.

 

But I do feel good about the current situation. Less 'convincing-myself-to-be-optimistic-even-though-deep-down-I-know-it's-never-going-to-work' going on this time.

For me, this is as well as it can be said.

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Now let's get to the draft. Tre White was drafted in the right place. I won't get into who they passed because that has been exhausted to death. But it was a QB prospect that someone who was his former boss and QB guru wanted. That should have alerted Sean that he might not have the winning hand. Now to Zay Jones. I think he was not only a reach but we spent a 2nd AND 3rd on him. Terrible value for a future 2nd or 3rd possession receiver. Dawkins I love as a pick and where we got him. But again, to fill the need they gave away picks. You don't trade away picks when you are building or rebuilding to fill needs.

 

. I disagree with your assessment of Z Jones, but I too disliked both of the trade ups in a very deep draft. I dislike the Jones trade up a little less because at least it was two picks for two picks. IMO, it's always better to just be patient. There is every chance that Jones or Samuel is still there at 44. Edited by mannc
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John, I think the problem is you are assuming a greater competence in the Bills ownership than they deserve. There is a capricious nature to how they run their teams that continues to this day.

 

Again, the decision to fire Whaley was not a carefully thought out plan. He was part of the coaching search! It was the end result of falling love with the young DC from Carolina before ever even seeing him and handing him Chip Kelly type authority.

 

 

 

 

I stated from the beginning that I was uncomfortable with the complete empowering of the wrestling coach. On the other hand the reconstitution of the front office with the new GM and subordinates seem to be well done. The Chip Kelly comparison is off base for the major reason that McDermott had extensive experience in the NFL while Kelly without any NFL experience was trying to transpose his successful college system to the NFL without the right adjustments.

 

You are doing what Badol does. Criticizing everything now being done based on what previously went wrong. The empowering of McDermott may have been premature but what has happened afterwards makes a lot of sense. The coaching staff he assembled is credible. The front office that is now together does seem credible. How is it legitimate to criticize those moves simply because prior moves went wayward. Strong prejudicial views have a tendency to distort objectivity when judging current matters. Sometimes history is a good indicator and sometimes history clouds the reality of the presence.

 

You don't need to list all of the owners mistakes for me. They are well documented and the repercussions are starkly evident. That doesn't mean he hasn't learned from them. With the Sabres he certainly made some odd decisions. But what I'm not going to do is criticize his selection of the current GM (widely acclaimed) based on the fact of his prior missteps.

 

In general, I am cautiously optimistic. Your eyes seem to be much more jaundiced than mine. That's okay. Only time will tell.

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The Pegulas don't have a clue what they are doing nor do they have a clue about the sport of football.

 

Just have to hope they got lucky with McDermott and Beane.

ya ya ya ya same old you know what! Another low bar type!

I stated from the beginning that I was uncomfortable with the complete empowering of the wrestling coach. On the other hand the reconstitution of the front office with the new GM and subordinates seem to be well done. The Chip Kelly comparison is off base for the major reason that McDermott had extensive experience in the NFL while Kelly without any NFL experience was trying to transpose his successful college system to the NFL without the right adjustments.

 

You are doing what Badol does. Criticizing everything now being done based on what previously went wrong. The empowering of McDermott may have been premature but what has happened afterwards makes a lot of sense. The coaching staff he assembled is credible. The front office that is now together does seem credible. How is it legitimate to criticize those moves simply because prior moves went wayward. Strong prejudicial views have a tendency to distort objectivity when judging current matters. Sometimes history is a good indicator and sometimes history clouds the reality of the presence.

 

You don't need to list all of the owners mistakes for me. They are well documented and the repercussions are starkly evident. That doesn't mean he hasn't learned from them. With the Sabres he certainly made some odd decisions. But what I'm not going to do is criticize his selection of the current GM (widely acclaimed) based on the fact of his prior missteps.

 

In general, I am cautiously optimistic. Your eyes seem to be much more jaundiced than mine. That's okay. Only time will tell.

great post, could not agree more.

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I stated from the beginning that I was uncomfortable with the complete empowering of the wrestling coach. On the other hand the reconstitution of the front office with the new GM and subordinates seem to be well done. The Chip Kelly comparison is off base for the major reason that McDermott had extensive experience in the NFL while Kelly without any NFL experience was trying to transpose his successful college system to the NFL without the right adjustments.

 

You are doing what Badol does. Criticizing everything now being done based on what previously went wrong. The empowering of McDermott may have been premature but what has happened afterwards makes a lot of sense. The coaching staff he assembled is credible. The front office that is now together does seem credible. How is it legitimate to criticize those moves simply because prior moves went wayward. Strong prejudicial views have a tendency to distort objectivity when judging current matters. Sometimes history is a good indicator and sometimes history clouds the reality of the presence.

 

You don't need to list all of the owners mistakes for me. They are well documented and the repercussions are starkly evident. That doesn't mean he hasn't learned from them. With the Sabres he certainly made some odd decisions. But what I'm not going to do is criticize his selection of the current GM (widely acclaimed) based on the fact of his prior missteps.

 

In general, I am cautiously optimistic. Your eyes seem to be much more jaundiced than mine. That's okay. Only time will tell.

 

I have stated that a terrible process or poor decision making can lead to a good result. I don't think any of us would have been impressed with the hiring of re-tread Marv Levy as coach or Bill Polian as GM. But Bills lucked out. So McDermott and Beane could succeed but if they do it won't be because of the grand football vision of Terry and Kim.

 

Now I disagree that I evaluate all moves with respect to the past. I already stated that if the Pegulas had fallen in love with Jim Bob Cooter or Shanahan or had started by hiring the best GM they could they I would have seen a new direction. So you are free to infer why I believe something. I just think you are wrong as I try to evaluate even small moves on their own merit.

 

Now let's talk about the coaching staff.

 

Offensive Coordinator-This would be the most critical hire. Marrone did great with Pettine and Schwartz as DC's while Gailey failed with Wannstedt and George Edwards. So McDermott tried to hire Mike McCoy. Failed. next went to Brad Childress. Failed. This was especially bad because Childress was part of the Andy Reid tree yet didn't see Buffalo as a good place with Sean McD. Then he got Dennison, the assistant to Kubiak. Kubiak has a great system but what has Dennison done? Really nothing so far. It's all hope.

 

Defensive Coordinator-Leslie Frazier. This was another bad hire, in my opinion. Frazier had found his proper level in the NFL as a DB coach after failing in his two prior stints at head coach and defensive coordinator in Tampa. He is known for defenses so simple the opposing QB calls out the plays.

 

QB Coach- I think we both agree that the QB position is critical. So why would Sean McDermott hire a guy to coach QB's with no NFL experience coaching the position? This is the same crappy lack of attention to the position that went on under prior regimes in Buffalo.

 

Now let's get to the GM position. Beane was no way, no how the best person for the job. He came because McDermott wanted him and he would agree to let McD rule. Then Beane hired some guys that wanted more money to fill positions below him. No one knows if any of these guys are any good. It's all hope. And even if they are who will tell McDermott to take the BPA or players with upside over filling needs for the next year roster? We don't know how this will play out but the last draft was not a good sign of a group that wanted to build through the draft.

Edited by jeffismagic
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Bar has been low for far too long.

 

It certainly has been as evidenced by all the comments in this thread gushing over the latest Bills regime. Apparently, for many Bills fans, fresh faces in the FO and on the coaching equals "vast improvement", and they're "all in" with the new regime even before a single game has been played. I hate to point out to all you admirers of the Emperor and Empress's new wardrobes that their new togs look just like the old Emperor's ones repeatedly did at the same points in football year calendar.

 

For me, the more I read and hear about the new regime, the more skeptical I'm becoming that it is going to be any different from all the previous failed regimes.

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It certainly has been as evidenced by all the comments in this thread gushing over the latest Bills regime. Apparently, for many Bills fans, fresh faces in the FO and on the coaching equals "vast improvement", and they're "all in" with the new regime even before a single game has been played. I hate to point out to all you admirers of the Emperor and Empress's new wardrobes that their new togs look just like the old Emperor's ones repeatedly did at the same points in football year calendar.

 

For me, the more I read and hear about the new regime, the more skeptical I'm becoming that it is going to be any different from all the previous failed regimes.

What specifically makes you say this? They are certainly different than the Ryan regime.

 

They get an incomplete grade right now. When games start to be played we'll find out. For now the HC comes from a line of successful men in the coaching industry, and his style is to focus on process and work ethic. Most organizations view that as a positive. The choice of a young GM with experience in various aspects of football operations, and who shares philosophies with the HC, seems like a positive and was generally met with favor around the league. And the new GM has brought in some young respected minds for the scouting side.

 

He who will never say anything positive about the Bills criticizes the choice of a defensive minded HC in posts above. Well, let's look back over recent history. Belichick and Quinn last years SB: both former DCs. Carroll came from the defensive side. Rivera. Whether a HC comes from the defensive or offensive side is immaterial; it is whether a guy that was a coordinator has what it takes to ascend to the HC spot. Same with assistant GMs. And the only way to know that is by taking a shot. One thing we do know is by hiring a former HC or former GM you'd be hiring a guy who other organizations found wanting and was thus fired.

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