thebandit27 Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 Just felt like making a general comment here - Love your posts, man ! I have my moments
What a Tuel Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) I think it's both. Brady targeting you 8 times may be as good as Bortles targeting you 10. But Bortles targeting you 12 times may surpass that. I'd disagree with that. Too many times we see elite QB ball placement maximize what a WR gets out of the play. Robinson is a perfect example of (edit: not) that. Edited June 3, 2017 by What a Tuel
Hurricane Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 I should've known better than to even engage you...as pointless an exercise as can be. You want to say the sample size is not small, but then you'll cite one game over the course of last season...laughable stuff. If anything, this once again proves that it's not sustainable to think Taylor and Watkins can hook up on primarily deep balls consistantly over the course of a season to the tune of 100 catches, over 1,000 yards, and double digit TD's. Watkins needs to see more targets besides the high volume of deep shots if he and the offense is to take the passing game to the next level. Haven't you learned you lesson by now? lol...
JustWinPlease Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 Not sure how much credence to give this radio station but it's out there https://sportstalk360.com/2017/05/26/buffalo-bills-receiving-sammy-watkins-trade-offers/ That's a "radio station?" It looks like a fan-run blog, with a header of a picture of Tom Brady and three other guys I couldn't name if you gave me 29738947947349 tries to do so. Sounds credible though. https://sportstalk360.com/about-us/
BringBackOrton Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 I'd disagree with that. Too many times we see elite QB ball placement maximize what a WR gets out of the play. Robinson is a perfect example of (edit: not) that. Not sure what you mean here?
What a Tuel Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Not sure what you mean here? Maybe you went through all this already, but Bortles targeted Robinson a ton last year and simply missed. Had to be a very frustrating year for Robinson. Looking at the stats you can see a clear difference between good Bortles and bad Bortles, and it makes a world of difference. So I don't think simply targeting a player more offsets the quality of the targets (12 Bortles targets surpasses 8 Brady Targets). I do agree that quantity and quality have some correlation with each other (so maybe we agree), but I think quality has a more far-reaching impact than even that ratio. 2015 Bortles to Robinson - 153 targets 1,400 yards 14 tds 2016 Bortles to Robinson - 151 targets 883 yards 6 tds Edited June 4, 2017 by What a Tuel
12Kachy Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 Dumb if true. Billsy. My prediction, if they trade Watkins for a pick they will use that pick for a.... WR or RB. Billsy. na, we are back to the Dick J days. Trade top talent for picks then grab every DB in the draft.
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2017 Author Posted June 4, 2017 That's a "radio station?" It looks like a fan-run blog, with a header of a picture of Tom Brady and three other guys I couldn't name if you gave me 29738947947349 tries to do so. Sounds credible though. https://sportstalk360.com/about-us/ we are aware it's not a radio station. I thought it was initially but that was many days ago.
HappyDays Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Small sample size. You know Crusher I agree with you. It's way too small a sample size to make definitive future judgments. Which is why I was a big advocate for bringing back Tyrod even if it meant picking up the option. Because IF those numbers aren't a fluke - if he can legitimately replicate those numbers when his weapons are on the field - then we have a top 15 passer on our roster. I know what you would say, that you are confident those numbers are a fluke. And I'll respond that I'm confident they're not. We could spend a lot of time going back and forth. Or we could just wait and see since Tyrod is coming back regardless. We got what I wanted, a chance to see if we have something in Tyrod. I'd think you would be interested to find out as well. As a point of comparison, Derek Carr was awful his rookie year in 2014. A passer rating of 76.6. Only 5.5 YPA. In 2015 they got Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree. Maybe it's no coincidence that in 2015 and 2016 Carr's stats went way up, and the two years are pretty similar too - 91.1 and 96.7 passer ratings ; exactly 7.0 YPA in both years. I'm not gonna try and argue his development was entirely, or even mostly, the product of better receiving weapons (although can you confidently argue the opposite is true?). It sure is interesting though. Receiving weapons matter for QBs that aren't named Tom Brady. The Bucs have one of the best young QBs in the game. It didn't stop them from acquiring Mike Evans, Desean Jackson, and now OJ Howard. Only in Buffalo is asking for more reliable weapons seen as a statement that the QB isn't good enough. And only in Buffalo is the bizarre assertion made that "the QB makes the receiver." I for one think it's a symptom of watching Brady terrorize our division for over a decade, we've lost perspective on how the rest of the league is built. Now I'm genuinely curious Crusher - is there anything in this post you really disagree with? Edited June 4, 2017 by HappyDays
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 thank you for your contribution toward reaching our goal of 100 pgs. It's the offseason and I believe in all of you. #playoffcaliber posting. Thank you. Its no small feat.
Crusher Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 You know Crusher I agree with you. It's way too small a sample size to make definitive future judgments. Which is why I was a big advocate for bringing back Tyrod even if it meant picking up the option. Because IF those numbers aren't a fluke - if he can legitimately replicate those numbers when his weapons are on the field - then we have a top 15 passer on our roster. I know what you would say, that you are confident those numbers are a fluke. And I'll respond that I'm confident they're not. We could spend a lot of time going back and forth. Or we could just wait and see since Tyrod is coming back regardless. We got what I wanted, a chance to see if we have something in Tyrod. I'd think you would be interested to find out as well. As a point of comparison, Derek Carr was awful his rookie year in 2014. A passer rating of 76.6. Only 5.5 YPA. In 2015 they got Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree. Maybe it's no coincidence that in 2015 and 2016 Carr's stats went way up, and the two years are pretty similar too - 91.1 and 96.7 passer ratings ; exactly 7.0 YPA in both years. I'm not gonna try and argue his development was entirely, or even mostly, the product of better receiving weapons (although can you confidently argue the opposite is true?). It sure is interesting though. Receiving weapons matter for QBs that aren't named Tom Brady. The Bucs have one of the best young QBs in the game. It didn't stop them from acquiring Mike Evans, Desean Jackson, and now OJ Howard. Only in Buffalo is asking for more reliable weapons seen as a statement that the QB isn't good enough. And only in Buffalo is the bizarre assertion made that "the QB makes the receiver." I for one think it's a symptom of watching Brady terrorize our division for over a decade, we've lost perspective on how the rest of the league is built. Now I'm genuinely curious Crusher - is there anything in this post you really disagree with? I'm fine and dandy with this post. It should be hard to argue many points on Taylor after this season. We should have more data...data on him in different systems, Sammy hurt and healthy...lots of things should be pretty much taken for facts after this season. If after this season I still hear that we are unsure and might need more time, I will not settle for that.
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 ...Dutch Boy on the way... you guys honestly crack me up
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 I'm fine and dandy with this post. It should be hard to argue many points on Taylor after this season. We should have more data...data on him in different systems, Sammy hurt and healthy...lots of things should be pretty much taken for facts after this season. If after this season I still hear that we are unsure and might need more time, I will not settle for that. If they are unsure after this year the probability of drafting a QB high is for sure....it might be EVEN IF Tyrod has a very good year.....which frankly I would not be against. You go with the best player on your draft board......that best player this next draft may very well be a qb
Figster Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) If they are unsure after this year the probability of drafting a QB high is for sure....it might be EVEN IF Tyrod has a very good year.....which frankly I would not be against. You go with the best player on your draft board......that best player this next draft may very well be a qb I know none of these guys were drafted in the 1st, but its possible the Buffalo Bills may have already found a franchise QB in my humble opinion John, ...or maybe even two... ...now wouldn't that be something... Edited June 4, 2017 by Figster
Alphadawg7 Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 Perhaps we're speaking past each other. Here's my argument. -Sammy Watkins needs 10 targets a game to reach 1400 yards -10 targets a game average is a feat only achieved by 5 WR's last year -the top WR's in targets per game almost all had franchise QBs, with the exception of Osweiler and Bortles. -thus, I doubt Sammy Watkins will get the 10 targets a game necessary to reach 1400 yards. I think you actually agree with me here. You fail to mention that one of those Non-Franchis QB's Osweiler that got his WR 10 targets per game played for the same OC we have and Tyrod is a better QB than Osweiler, our run game is way better, and our QB is also a dual threat...which will open up the field more for the WR's. If Sammy can stay healthy, its very possible he will see 10 targets a game, and he should. So once again (since the discussion you two are entrenched in started with a post I made of what Sammy could do if healthy all year), I stand by my OP that stated Sammy CAN hit 1400+ yards, 90+ Receptions, and Double Digit TD's this year assuming he has at full strength and put the injuries behind him. PS: People also forget what a healthy Sammy and Tyrod did together and what that looks like because they have great chemistry. There are only 9 games together where Sammy was really healthy in the 2 years they have been teammates. That was after the bye week in 2015 for the final 9 games where Sammy was one of the most productive WR's in the NFL across all significant categories over that stretch. In the only game in 2016 where Sammy was sorta healthy and Tyrod started, he had 154 yards and a TD. He was a shell of himself in the other 6 games with TT where he was gimping around and then he final game EJ started.
BringBackOrton Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 You fail to mention that one of those Non-Franchis QB's Osweiler that got his WR 10 targets per game played for the same OC we have and Tyrod is a better QB than Osweiler, our run game is way better, and our QB is also a dual threat...which will open up the field more for the WR's. If Sammy can stay healthy, its very possible he will see 10 targets a game, and he should. So once again (since the discussion you two are entrenched in started with a post I made of what Sammy could do if healthy all year), I stand by my OP that stated Sammy CAN hit 1400+ yards, 90+ Receptions, and Double Digit TD's this year assuming he has at full strength and put the injuries behind him. PS: People also forget what a healthy Sammy and Tyrod did together and what that looks like because they have great chemistry. There are only 9 games together where Sammy was really healthy in the 2 years they have been teammates. That was after the bye week in 2015 for the final 9 games where Sammy was one of the most productive WR's in the NFL across all significant categories over that stretch. In the only game in 2016 where Sammy was sorta healthy and Tyrod started, he had 154 yards and a TD. He was a shell of himself in the other 6 games with TT where he was gimping around and then he final game EJ started. He played for the same OC for 7 games and got benched for the corpse of Peyton Manning. Not sure what you're going for here. Sammy won't get the targets necessary to see 1400 yards in this offense. You can take it to the bank. Sammy wasn't healthy for the final 9 games in 2015. He had a broken foot.
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 He played for the same OC for 7 games and got benched for the corpse of Peyton Manning. Not sure what you're going for here. Sammy won't get the targets necessary to see 1400 yards in this offense. You can take it to the bank. Sammy wasn't healthy for the final 9 games in 2015. He had a broken foot. I dont think Sammy gets 1400 either....but I think he could easily get 1000
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 I dont think Sammy gets 1400 either....but I think he could easily get 1000 That would be disappointing for me. He's capable of much more
/dev/null Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 if the Maclin talks come to fruition will it accelerate the Watkins trade talk?
What a Tuel Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 if the Maclin talks come to fruition will it accelerate the Watkins trade talk? I sure hope not. 1 step forward 10 steps back.
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