Rumor- Bills will entertain trade offers for Watkins?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Who in the hell is Steve Smith Jr.?

The son of Steve Smith Sr.

[What a Tuel]

t

 

I honestly have no idea why you're saying all of this to me. Have you mistaken me for someone else you're having a different argument with

 

That trade isn't "technically" one transaction. It's one transaction. There is no other way to look at it. We received the 2014 #4 in exchange for giving up three picks, the 2014 #9, the 2015 #19 and the 2015 #115.

 

That's the trade. Wanna use the word "swap" instead? Fine, they swapped the 2014 #9, the 2015 #19 and the 2015 #115 for the 2014 #4. But you're trying again to separate one trade into two or three separate mini-transactions. What the GMs mindsets are like here doesn't really interest me beyond that they both wanted something and so they had to give up something to get it. It's what trades are.

 

As for the rest of what you're saying, I'm not sure why you're saying it to me. Or really exactly what you're saying. I think this has gone as far as it's worth taking it, personally.

 

And I honestly have no idea why you are still arguing with me but then acting as if you aren't arguing with everyone about this.

 

One last time, no one is arguing that we gave up 3 picks to draft Sammy. NO ONE. Stop acting like we are arguing that case.

 

Lastly if you don't care about the method in which the GM's made the trade then fine, I do. The Bills wanted to move up. That matters. It sets the terms of the trade. What is the cost of moving up? Well Cleveland says "obviously we want your first round pick, but obviously that isn't enough because that wouldn't make sense. So...what would make it worth it for us to move back 5 spots? Eureka! Your 2015 1st and 4th!"

 

All in all in a nutshell the Bills paid Cleveland a 2015 1st and 4th for the trouble of moving back 5 spots.

 

If you want to say the Bills paid Cleveland a 2014 1st, and 2015 1st and 4th to draft Sammy Watkins that's fine too.

 

It's perfectly acceptable to say either of those things. What isn't acceptable is to say the Bills traded away 2 1st round picks and used a 4th overall to draft Sammy Watkins. It is just flat out silly to say it like that because it implies that we paid for both sides of the transaction.

[oldmanfan]

 

And I honestly have no idea why you are still arguing with me but then acting as if you aren't arguing with everyone about this.

 

One last time, no one is arguing that we gave up 3 picks to draft Sammy. NO ONE. Stop acting like we are arguing that case.

 

Lastly if you don't care about the method in which the GM's made the trade then fine, I do. The Bills wanted to move up. That matters. It sets the terms of the trade. What is the cost of moving up? Well Cleveland says "obviously we want your first round pick, but obviously that isn't enough because that wouldn't make sense. So...what would make it worth it for us to move back 5 spots? Eureka! Your 2015 1st and 4th!"

 

All in all in a nutshell the Bills paid Cleveland a 2015 1st and 4th for the trouble of moving back 5 spots.

 

If you want to say the Bills paid Cleveland a 2014 1st, and 2015 1st and 4th to draft Sammy Watkins that's fine too.

 

It's perfectly acceptable to say either of those things. What isn't acceptable is to say the Bills traded away 2 1st round picks and used a 4th overall to draft Sammy Watkins. It is just flat out silly to say it like that because it implies that we paid for both sides of the transaction.

One would think even on a board where there is much debate and disagreement we could all agree that 3 -1 = 2. Sadly that seems to not be the case.

[thebandit27]

There is no reason for someone else to clarify for you. How about you do what I did and look up their birthdays and stats yourself. Then you can make an intelligent informed comment instead of using untrue made up numbers blaming someone else when called on the fake stats you provided.

 

Landry and OBJ both turned 24 in November at the end of the season so it makes no difference because they both had more yards before turning 24.

 

 

Julio had 6 count them just 6 more targets then Sammy. So there in no vast difference.

 

Perhaps Kirby trusts that I don't make things up, and he's giving me a chance to explain my statement?

 

The info was a bit old--the article was from almost exactly a year ago, but here's what I was talking about:

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/6/14/11924724/on-sammy-watkins-age-production-and-quantifying-his-impact

[YoloinOhio]

I would lock this thread if I could since I started I but my only option is to delete it. Not sure that's ideal since there is some good content. But maybe a mod can lock... it has definitely reached the point of circular arguments. I think whether or not it would benefit the team to trade him is a valid debate, but we just don't have enough info right now in May to present real facts on the medical and too early to see how he will perform in the offense. Thread could reach 100 pages by TC with no new info presented.

[K-9]

 

Is Watkins' value to the Bills greater as a WR catching passes from Tyrod Taylor or as the final piece of the puzzle to get a franchise QB?

I think Watkins' only value to the Bills is that he is a great player; a blue chip talent that defenses have to prepare for and the key component to TT's success in the passing game. We have too few of that type of player on our team. I don't think he helps us land a franchise QB at present given his foot injury. If he recovers and goes out and has the kind of season he's capable of, then I think prospective trading partners would take notice. But we aren't going to get a franchise QB in any deal, regardless. That guy will have to be drafted and developed. In the meantime, Taylor is the guy and Sammy is just the kind of player he needs on offense. Sammy helps TT much more than TT helps Sammy.

[26CornerBlitz]

@Cover1Bills

Sammy Watkins #bust. But I think I found my next project..

Some more Sammy and Julio 1st three season comps. #Bills #Billsfanatics #Billsmafia #Bust #Context

 

[oldmanfan]

Referring to the OP, theoretically there would be trade value for Sammy if and only if he shows this season that he is recovered from his broken foot. Otherwise teams will either not be interested since he can't get on the field, or they know they can simply wait and sign him when he hits FA since the Bills would not resign an injured WR (and if they wanted to sign a guy that's damaged goods for some reason). Should they trade him? That can't be evaluated since you don't know his injury status, and that is why the team likely (and wisely IMHO) waited to extend him.

 

One other thing about the OP. I would consider the sources of information. While the OP has led us to 40 some pages of discussion, it was based on a random suggestion from some website that is more of a rugby blog than anything. If this came from a more credible source it would have more meaning.

[26CornerBlitz]

Of course it is Vic.

 

@viccarucci

Too early to say @sammywatkins is headed toward being a bust. My #Bills analysis is NEW at [bN] Blitz: https://t.co/whp0Cb5jCt

[K-9]

... Yea. I think his point is trading Sammy to help us move up to get that franchise QB.

 

But that would be stupid, IMO. Why trade away an already establish great player when you could trade unstablished ones?(draft picks)

Agree entirely. Sammy has far less as trade bait at the moment given his injury concern; certainly not enough to garner a pick high enough to draft a franchise type QB. His value to us, as I said, is as a blue chip talent who benefits Taylor.

[mannc]

Who in the hell is Steve Smith Jr.?

oops. Sr

[K-9]

@Cover1Bills

Sammy Watkins #bust. But I think I found my next project..

 

 

Some more Sammy and Julio 1st three season comps. #Bills #Billsfanatics #Billsmafia #Bust #Context

 

 

I'm hoping Eric can also do a breakdown of some of James Hardy's best plays, too.

[What a Tuel]

@Cover1Bills

Sammy Watkins #bust. But I think I found my next project..

 

 

Some more Sammy and Julio 1st three season comps. #Bills #Billsfanatics #Billsmafia #Bust #Context

 

 

 

Good stuff. Cover 1 has been doing some good breakdowns. See them a lot.

 

I made the Julio comparisons last year. People simply say "Sammy has to earn being compared to Julio". I just don't get the need or desire of Bills fans to want get rid of a good player like Watkins. Its like an inferiority complex. "We spent too much so quick ditch him before someone laughs at us". The Bills patience will be rewarded with him. The only problem I see is if his foot is messed up beyond anything.

Edited June 1, 2017 by What a Tuel

[26CornerBlitz]

I'm hoping Eric can also do a breakdown of some of James Hardy's best plays, too.

 

Certainly a worthwhile undertaking that will be eagerly anticipated.

 

Good stuff. Cover 1 has been doing some good breakdowns. See them a lot.

 

I made the Julio comparisons last year. People simply say "Sammy has to earn being compared to Julio". I just don't get the need or desire of Bills fans to want get rid of a good player like Watkins. Its like an inferiority complex. "We spent too much so quick ditch him before someone laughs at us". The Bills patience will be rewarded with him. The only problem I see is if his foot is messed up beyond anything.

 

Hopefully the 2nd procedure has him on track towards a full recovery. We'll certainly know in due course.

[Thurman#1]

 

And I honestly have no idea why you are still arguing with me but then acting as if you aren't arguing with everyone about this.

 

One last time, no one is arguing that we gave up 3 picks to draft Sammy. NO ONE. Stop acting like we are arguing that case.

 

Lastly if you don't care about the method in which the GM's made the trade then fine, I do. The Bills wanted to move up. That matters. It sets the terms of the trade. What is the cost of moving up? Well Cleveland says "obviously we want your first round pick, but obviously that isn't enough because that wouldn't make sense. So...what would make it worth it for us to move back 5 spots? Eureka! Your 2015 1st and 4th!"

 

All in all in a nutshell the Bills paid Cleveland a 2015 1st and 4th for the trouble of moving back 5 spots.

 

If you want to say the Bills paid Cleveland a 2014 1st, and 2015 1st and 4th to draft Sammy Watkins that's fine too.

 

It's perfectly acceptable to say either of those things. What isn't acceptable is to say the Bills traded away 2 1st round picks and used a 4th overall to draft Sammy Watkins. It is just flat out silly to say it like that because it implies that we paid for both sides of the transaction.

 

 

 

So, noone is arguing that we gave up three picks in that trade?

 

I'm afraid you missed one person who is arguing that. Which would be me. Because it's true. We did in fact give up three picks in that trade. It's what happened. The 2014 #9, the 2015 #19 and the 2015 #115. Given up in trade for the 2014 #4. One trade. Not two or three little mini-transactions.

 

 

 

As for the rest of it, I won't address it anymore after this. You keep talking about implications that perhaps someone is making somewhere, but I certainly am not, nor do I care if somebody else is.

[4merper4mer]

 

 

 

So, noone is arguing that we gave up three picks in that trade?

 

I'm afraid you missed one person who is arguing that. Which would be me. Because it's true. We did in fact give up three picks in that trade. It's what happened. The 2014 #9, the 2015 #19 and the 2015 #115. Given up in trade for the 2014 #4. One trade. Not two or three little mini-transactions.

 

 

 

As for the rest of it, I won't address it anymore after this. You keep talking about implications that perhaps someone is making somewhere, but I certainly am not, nor do I care if somebody else is.

 

 

Who is Noone and why is he arguing that?

[What a Tuel]

 

So, noone is arguing that we gave up three picks in that trade?

 

I'm afraid you missed one person who is arguing that. Which would be me. Because it's true. We did in fact give up three picks in that trade. It's what happened. The 2014 #9, the 2015 #19 and the 2015 #115. Given up in trade for the 2014 #4. One trade. Not two or three little mini-transactions.

 

As for the rest of it, I won't address it anymore after this. You keep talking about implications that perhaps someone is making somewhere, but I certainly am not, nor do I care if somebody else is.

 

I should have corrected that but I figured youd get my point since I clarified it further in the rest of the post. "Noone is saying we didn't give up 3 picks to draft Watkins"

 

Don't lock the thread Yolo! I'll leave it alone now!

Edited June 1, 2017 by What a Tuel

[Thurman#1]

It's called playing with an injury. When healthy and given targets that a number one WR should get the production has been there.

 

 

That's just it. Playing with an injury. The guy's been unable to stay healthy.

 

Perhaps he'll stay healthy this year. But maybe not. And we'll be in a different offense this year, there's no knowing what'll happen, healthy or not.

 

We just don't know, and that should make the trade possible. Certainly very unlikely. But possible especially if they think he could be turned into the final piece of a tradeup for a franchise QB.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

That's just it. Playing with an injury. The guy's been unable to stay healthy.

 

Perhaps he'll stay healthy this year. But maybe not. And we'll be in a different offense this year, there's no knowing what'll happen, healthy or not.

 

We just don't know, and that should make the trade possible. Certainly very unlikely. But possible especially if they think he could be turned into the final piece of a tradeup for a franchise QB.

 

Not exactly true. He remained mostly healthy and productive in his 1st two seasons before the foot injury last season. The injury question makes a trade highly unlikely instead of possible. Why would a team trade for him at this juncture and why would the Bills entertain any offer that would likely be of low value?

[NewEra]

I'd argue what they said was right on. He has struggled during large parts of his career even when he was on the field.

 

Now, yeah, he had that one nine-game streak when he was insanely cleaning up. But he's also had a lot of pretty meh games, and it's arguable that for a #4 pick a lot of meh games amounts to struggling.

 

Here's his 2016 games:

 

four catches on six targets for 43 yards

two catches on five targets for 20 yards

three catches on three targets for 80 yards, a very very good game

three catches on nine targets for 38 yards

four catches on six targets for 54 yards and a TD, a pretty good game

one catch on four targets for 10 yards

seven catches on 10 targets for 154 yards and a TD, a terrific game

four catches on nine targets for 31 yards

 

For a #4 pick, I think you could call that struggling a bit. 28 catches on 52 targets for 430 yards and 2 TDs in eight games? Yeah, it's not unreasonable to call that struggling.

 

Now, you can't take that wildly productive purple patch in 2015 away from him. But it hasn't just been when he's here he's produced. He's struggled plenty. Probably injuries were a large part of that, but they're part of the picture so far with Sammy.

 

Again, I'm not arguing he's a bust. It's not reasonable to say that yet.

You realize the WRs don't throw the balls to themselves right? His QB is Tyrod. Put Sammy in almost any other offense in the league and his stats are much better imo. Ground & pound + TT = poor WR.