Rumor- Bills will entertain trade offers for Watkins?

[PromoTheRobot]

agree 100 %. This is what Belicheat has been doing for years

Except the Pats always win. We are in an endless loop of rebuilding because we keep losing our good players.

[BuffaloMatt]

I wouldn't buy a Watkins jersey.

Do what I did. I just took Fitzy's name off of the jersey and wear a no-name #14. It will work for the next guy to wear #14 as well. Brilliant! IMO.

[John from Riverside]

I am not pleased by the numbers that Watson has put up. I just don't think that Gilmore and Sammy are even almost on the same level in terms of talent.

 

I think I know what you mean by the term "properly utilized," but imo that is WAY too wide a window. He is big enough to play zone and talented enough to play man. It's almost like the cliché that Spiller was "good in space." From what I saw, the effort just was not there.

 

I would rather keep Watkins for another year but if we got one more 1st round pick, I wouldn't be heartbroken by a trade. Wrt Gilmore, I am glad that he is gone and while I did not and do not endorse the 1st round pick we spent to replace him, I predict that there will be little to no difference.

 

Jmo.

In my opinion I am trying to remember a player (when healthy) that has been as uncoverable as Watson has been on the bills....I would have to go back to Eric Moulds.......again when healthy there has literally not been a defensive player that can shut him down.

 

You can say that the bills havent gotten him the ball enough when he has been on the field and that would be a fair arguement

 

You can complain that the guy was hurt last year and that availability is important and you would have a fair arguement

 

BUT imo I think it is too early to give up on a blue chip caliber player like Sammy Watkins.....I dont even know what the bills would even consider this.

Edited May 29, 2017 by John from Hemet

[JaCrispy]

Except the Pats always win. We are in an endless loop of rebuilding because we keep losing our good players.

I feel part of the reason we constantly rebuild (other than the obvious of never having a QB and constantly changing HC) is that, up to this point, our FO hasn't learned how to work the FA/salary cap era of the NFL.

 

They have to understand that no matter how great they draft- how many great players they accumulate, they simply can't keep everyone because of how the NFL is set up...the smart teams understand this, and before rookie contracts are up, some top players are dealt for compensation (perhaps a 1st or 2nd rounders) which in turn makes it easier to replenish the stable with top talent a lot quicker...by not doing this (like the Bills have yet to learn) it sets the team back further- taking even longer to build up the team with top talent again...The modern NFL is all about timing...you have to have certain players at certain positions with certain contracts, all playing during the same period of time to be successful imo. If you don't have that synchronicity, trading top players for compensation before you lose them for nothing seems like the optimal choice until you have achieved that balance on the roster imo.

 

Take the Gilmore situation for example...Once Gilmore had made his demands clear last year, which was much greater than the Bills were willing to offer, the smart move would have been to trade him during or prior to the draft instead of letting him play out his final year and then walking for nothing...the extra top pick the Bills would have received could have been used to replace Gilmore, while their original 1st rounder could have been used on another position...However, the "win now" mode that Rex was in clouded his judgement and he probably didn't care about building for the present and the future. Gilmore eventually walked, and the Bills were left without a top CB, having to burn their only top pick on replacing him.

 

If this rumor about a potential Sammy trade is real, it shows a great shift in the thinking of the Bills organization for the first time in its history...of all the things, it is this shift in thinking that gives me the greatest hope for the future with this team.

Edited May 29, 2017 by JaCrispy

[KellyToughII]

I feel part of the reason we constantly rebuild (other than the obvious of never having a QB and constantly changing HC) is that, up to this point, our FO hasn't learned how to work the FA/salary cap era of the NFL.

 

They have to understand that no matter how great they draft- how many great players they accumulate, they simply can't keep everyone because of how the NFL is set up...the smart teams understand this, and before rookie contracts are up, some top players are dealt for compensation (perhaps a 1st or 2nd rounders) which in turn makes it easier to replenish the stable with top talent a lot quicker...by not doing this (like the Bills have yet to learn) it sets the team back further- taking even longer to build up the team with top talent again...The modern NFL is all about timing...you have to have certain players at certain positions with certain contracts, all playing during the same period of time to be successful imo. If you don't have that synchronicity, trading top players for compensation before you lose them for nothing seems like the optimal choice until you have achieved that balance on the roster imo.

 

Take the Gilmore situation for example...Once Gilmore had made his demands clear last year, which was much greater than the Bills were willing to offer, the smart move would have been to trade him during or prior to the draft instead of letting him play out his final year and then walking for nothing...the extra top pick the Bills would have received could have been used to replace Gilmore, while their original 1st rounder could have been used on another position...However, the "win now" mode that Rex was in clouded his judgement and he probably didn't care about building for the present and the future. Gilmore eventually walked, and the Bills were left without a top CB, having to burn their only top pick on replacing him.

 

If this rumor about a potential Sammy trade is real, it shows a great shift in the thinking of the Bills organization for the first time in its history...of all the things, it is this shift in thinking that gives me the greatest hope for the future with this team.

Your last sentence is perfect. Overdorf, if kept, will have limited power. No more stupid contracts, overpaying and just letting guys that have a draft pick value walk.

 

I do not believe in Sammy, sorry. I thought it was insane and Whaley should have been fired when he traded up for him. If someone wants to trade and pay this oft injured guy then I say listen to the trade and make the deal and move on.

 

Great teams like NE, Green Bay, Pitt understand these players are just chess pieces to get you to a superbowl and or keep you competitive each year. Far too long The Bills (and moreso its fans) Cling to names, cling to feel good stories and tons and tons of "Potential" that never get us anywhere. I pray those days are gone and this new regime runs this team the way the better teams are ran.

[4merper4mer]

I feel part of the reason we constantly rebuild (other than the obvious of never having a QB and constantly changing HC) is that, up to this point, our FO hasn't learned how to work the FA/salary cap era of the NFL.

 

They have to understand that no matter how great they draft- how many great players they accumulate, they simply can't keep everyone because of how the NFL is set up...the smart teams understand this, and before rookie contracts are up, some top players are dealt for compensation (perhaps a 1st or 2nd rounders) which in turn makes it easier to replenish the stable with top talent a lot quicker...by not doing this (like the Bills have yet to learn) it sets the team back further- taking even longer to build up the team with top talent again...The modern NFL is all about timing...you have to have certain players at certain positions with certain contracts, all playing during the same period of time to be successful imo. If you don't have that synchronicity, trading top players for compensation before you lose them for nothing seems like the optimal choice until you have achieved that balance on the roster imo.

 

Take the Gilmore situation for example...Once Gilmore had made his demands clear last year, which was much greater than the Bills were willing to offer, the smart move would have been to trade him during or prior to the draft instead of letting him play out his final year and then walking for nothing...the extra top pick the Bills would have received could have been used to replace Gilmore, while their original 1st rounder could have been used on another position...However, the "win now" mode that Rex was in clouded his judgement and he probably didn't care about building for the present and the future. Gilmore eventually walked, and the Bills were left without a top CB, having to burn their only top pick on replacing him.

 

If this rumor about a potential Sammy trade is real, it shows a great shift in the thinking of the Bills organization for the first time in its history...of all the things, it is this shift in thinking that gives me the greatest hope for the future with this team.

 

 

In your humble opinion smart teams trade away top talent before expiration of a players rookie contract. Can you cite 5 example of this happening?

[JaCrispy]

 

 

In your humble opinion smart teams trade away top talent before expiration of a players rookie contract. Can you cite 5 example of this happening?

Not off the top of my head...

[4merper4mer]

Not off the top of my head...

Or off the bottom of your feet. Or anywhere in between.

 

Know why? Because "smart teams" don't often trade guys before their rookie contract is expired.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

In your humble opinion smart teams trade away top talent before expiration of a players rookie contract. Can you cite 5 example of this happening?

Patriots with Chandler Jones, Saints with Brandin Cooks, Panthers with Kony Ealy, Marshawn Lynch (ducks) and Kiko Alonso

 

How'd I do?

[JaCrispy]

Patriots with Chandler Jones, Saints with Brandin Cooks, Panthers with Kony Ealy, Marshawn Lynch (ducks) and Kiko Alonso

 

How'd I do?

Not bad at all Kirby...I was thinking Jamie Collins and Chandler Jones...and I wasn't sure about Matt Cassel...and these are just guys we are trying to come up with on rookie contracts...no mention of top talent on 2nd or 3rd contracts, which would obviously make it a great deal more.

Edited May 29, 2017 by JaCrispy

[Kirby Jackson]

Not bad at all Kirby...I was thinking Jamie Collins and Chandler Jones...and I wasn't sure about Matt Cassel

Forgot Jamie Collins, he's the perfect example

[4merper4mer]

Patriots with Chandler Jones, Saints with Brandin Cooks, Panthers with Kony Ealy, Marshawn Lynch (ducks) and Kiko Alonso

 

How'd I do?

 

 

Horribly.

 

40% of your genius comes from the Bills, the very team being excoriated to begin with. A different 40% has NE as its destination, and they are the shining pillar of genius. So outside of Jones, you are completely backwards. Maybe you are on to something though. Maybe we should trade to acquire talent nearing the end of its rookie contract. That what geniuses do clearly. And dummies like us trade it away.

 

Edit: You can throw in Trent Richardson if you'd like but of course you'd have to call the previous Browns regime geniuses to do it.

Edited May 29, 2017 by 4merper4mer

[JaCrispy]

 

 

Horribly.

 

40% of your genius comes from the Bills, the very team being excoriated to begin with. A different 40% has NE as its destination, and they are the shining pillar of genius. So outside of Jones, you are completely backwards. Maybe you are on to something though. Maybe we should trade to acquire talent nearing the end of its rookie contract. That what geniuses do clearly. And dummies like us trade it away.

 

Edit: You can throw in Trent Richardson if you'd like but of course you'd have to call the previous Browns regime geniuses to do it.

well, clearly it sounds like u are on the side of keeping Sammy- and that's ok...it is a very understandable position...he is a great talent.

 

I'm open to trading him for a few reasons:

 

1- everyone knows about the injuries

2- although it hasn't been reported, i feel he may want a certain amount of money in his next contract that the Bills may not want to pay because of those injuries.

3- he may want to go to another team that has a better QB or has a pass oriented offense, where he can potentially put up better numbers.

4- I don't want a repeat of not getting anything for our top talent if they walk- especially in this case

Edited May 29, 2017 by JaCrispy

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Horribly.

 

40% of your genius comes from the Bills, the very team being excoriated to begin with. A different 40% has NE as its destination, and they are the shining pillar of genius. So outside of Jones, you are completely backwards. Maybe you are on to something though. Maybe we should trade to acquire talent nearing the end of its rookie contract. That what geniuses do clearly. And dummies like us trade it away.

 

Edit: You can throw in Trent Richardson if you'd like but of course you'd have to call the previous Browns regime geniuses to do it.

I'm clearly in the keep Watkins camp but I gave you 5 examples of a team trading a high end performer before his rookie deal was up. That's what you asked for. Jones, Lynch, Alonso, Cooks, Ealy and Jamie Collins were all high end performers before being dealt. Don't ask a question that can be answered if you aren't going to like the answer when it come. Notice a theme, the Patriots are involved in 4 of those deals (2 going out and 2 coming in).

 

 

Horribly.

 

40% of your genius comes from the Bills, the very team being excoriated to begin with. A different 40% has NE as its destination, and they are the shining pillar of genius. So outside of Jones, you are completely backwards. Maybe you are on to something though. Maybe we should trade to acquire talent nearing the end of its rookie contract. That what geniuses do clearly. And dummies like us trade it away.

 

Edit: You can throw in Trent Richardson if you'd like but of course you'd have to call the previous Browns regime geniuses to do it.

I'd love to include Richardson too. They got a 1st back for that stiff. That classifies as a genius move.

[4merper4mer]

well, clearly it sounds like u are on the side of keeping Sammy- and that's ok...it is a very understandable position...he is a great talent.

 

I'm open to trading him for a few reasons:

 

1- everyone knows about the injuries

2- although it hasn't been reported, i feel he may want a certain amount of money in his next contract that the Bills may not want to pay because of those injuries.

3- he may want to go to another team that has a better QB or has a pass oriented offense, where he can potentially put up better numbers.

4- I don't want a repeat of not getting anything for our top talent if they walk- especially in this case

 

 

 

1- everyone knows about the injuries - I disagree. I doubt that anyone outside of a very small number are completely tuned in with where the injury stands. It is somewhere between 100% healed and 100% hopeless, I'll give you that. Either way a trade partner would justifiably give him a full workup and paint the gloomiest possible picture to lower our compensation.

2- although it hasn't been reported, i feel he may want a certain amount of money in his next contract that the Bills may not want to pay because of those injuries. Whether this is true or false, picking up the 5th year option was the right move.

3- he may want to go to another team that has a better QB or has a pass oriented offense, where he can potentially put up better numbers. This is complete conjecture and if true does not put him on both sides of the negotiating table. He occupies one side of it and the Bills occupy the other.

4- I don't want a repeat of not getting anything for our top talent if they walk- especially in this case. Again, a 5th year pickup was the appropriate response whether you desire to keep him or trade him.

Was this post your way of avoiding defending your false premise about how all the smart teams are trading away guys like Watkins?

[JaCrispy]

 

 

 

 

1- everyone knows about the injuries - I disagree. I doubt that anyone outside of a very small number are completely tuned in with where the injury stands. It is somewhere between 100% healed and 100% hopeless, I'll give you that. Either way a trade partner would justifiably give him a full workup and paint the gloomiest possible picture to lower our compensation.

 

2- although it hasn't been reported, i feel he may want a certain amount of money in his next contract that the Bills may not want to pay because of those injuries. Whether this is true or false, picking up the 5th year option was the right move.

 

3- he may want to go to another team that has a better QB or has a pass oriented offense, where he can potentially put up better numbers. This is complete conjecture and if true does not put him on both sides of the negotiating table. He occupies one side of it and the Bills occupy the other.

 

4- I don't want a repeat of not getting anything for our top talent if they walk- especially in this case. Again, a 5th year pickup was the appropriate response whether you desire to keep him or trade him.

 

Was this post your way of avoiding defending your false premise about how all the smart teams are trading away guys like Watkins?

 

Not at all....I simply thought you had been provided with the examples of different players being traded and we had moved on. Was there something else you were looking for?

Edited May 29, 2017 by JaCrispy

[4merper4mer]

I'm clearly in the keep Watkins camp but I gave you 5 examples of a team trading a high end performer before his rookie deal was up. That's what you asked for. Jones, Lynch, Alonso, Cooks, Ealy and Jamie Collins were all high end performers before being dealt. Don't ask a question that can be answered if you aren't going to like the answer when it come. Notice a theme, the Patriots are involved in 4 of those deals (2 going out and 2 coming in).

I'd love to include Richardson too. They got a 1st back for that stiff. That classifies as a genius move.

 

 

You answered a different question than the one I asked. He said smart teams trade away their young star players. I asked for examples of smart teams that did this. Your examples label the Bills and Browns as the smartest of the smart.

 

The ever genius Pats traded away picks but also picked up guys at similar contract stages by sending picks. At best this labels them as neutral because they clearly don't have a policy of simply picking up compensation for rookie contracts.

 

So that leaves you with the Panthers as the only viable "smart team" employing this "policy". And this "policy" is based on one trade, albeit to a receiving team you also labeled as smart.

 

You're going to have to do better than that to prove this is some sort of trend set in motion by smart teams.

Not at all....I simply thought you had been provided with the examples of different players being traded and we had moved on. Was there something else you were looking for?

 

 

So the Bills to become a smarter team have to follow the example set most often by.....the Bills. okay.

[JaCrispy]

 

 

You answered a different question than the one I asked. He said smart teams trade away their young star players. I asked for examples of smart teams that did this. Your examples label the Bills and Browns as the smartest of the smart.

 

The ever genius Pats traded away picks but also picked up guys at similar contract stages by sending picks. At best this labels them as neutral because they clearly don't have a policy of simply picking up compensation for rookie contracts.

 

So that leaves you with the Panthers as the only viable "smart team" employing this "policy". And this "policy" is based on one trade, albeit to a receiving team you also labeled as smart.

 

You're going to have to do better than that to prove this is some sort of trend set in motion by smart teams.

 

 

 

You answered a different question than the one I asked. He said smart teams trade away their young star players. I asked for examples of smart teams that did this. Your examples label the Bills and Browns as the smartest of the smart.

 

The ever genius Pats traded away picks but also picked up guys at similar contract stages by sending picks. At best this labels them as neutral because they clearly don't have a policy of simply picking up compensation for rookie contracts.

 

So that leaves you with the Panthers as the only viable "smart team" employing this "policy". And this "policy" is based on one trade, albeit to a receiving team you also labeled as smart.

 

You're going to have to do better than that to prove this is some sort of trend set in motion by smart teams.

Ok...I see what is happening here...

 

4merper4mer...I respect your point of view...but it is starting to seem like u are grasping at straws here, just for the sake of arguing...when u are provided with an answer, u seem to try to pick apart every minute detail, so that it never seems to satisfy you...and that is fine- it is your prerogative...but I neither have the time, nor the energy to play this little cat and mouse game.

 

Answers were given...u accept them or you don't...either way, just move on.

Edited May 29, 2017 by JaCrispy

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

ru·mor

 

noun

 

a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.

 

verb

 

be circulated as an unverified account.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

You answered a different question than the one I asked. He said smart teams trade away their young star players. I asked for examples of smart teams that did this. Your examples label the Bills and Browns as the smartest of the smart.

 

The ever genius Pats traded away picks but also picked up guys at similar contract stages by sending picks. At best this labels them as neutral because they clearly don't have a policy of simply picking up compensation for rookie contracts.

 

So that leaves you with the Panthers as the only viable "smart team" employing this "policy". And this "policy" is based on one trade, albeit to a receiving team you also labeled as smart.

 

You're going to have to do better than that to prove this is some sort of trend set in motion by smart teams.

 

 

 

So the Bills to become a smarter team have to follow the example set most often by.....the Bills. okay.

Smart team and smart trade are 2 different things and smart trade is all that matters. The Browns got a 1st round pick for Trent Richardson. The Bills got LeSean McCoy for Kiko. Why do other moves those teams make impact whether or not those were good decisions? It shouldn't. The team that makes the trade is totally irrelevant. The result of the trade is what is judged. Good teams make bad moves and bad teams make good moves. There are a bunch of cases that you can point to (those 2 in particular) where trading away the young guy was ABSOLUTELY the right decision.

 

That isn't the case with Watkins because you will never get comparable value and have plenty of money to keep him. In a bunch of those cases the guy was traded because they couldn't retain him.