Billzgobowlin Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 We didn't trade away two first round picks and a fourth for Sammy. We traded away one first round pick in the deal. We used one to draft him. Yes we did trade two first and a fourth in exchange for Sammy Watkins. We lost a first round pick the next year but Sammy still cost us two first round picks to draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I've followed this thread and seriously can't believe some of the comments made or suggestions made about Watkins based on pure speculation and "feeling". "They have already decided to move on." "Watkins doesn't want to be here." "He's never healthy." Yada, yada, yada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 "They have already decided to move on." "Watkins doesn't want to be here." "He's never healthy." Yada, yada, yada Oh the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Yes we did trade two first and a fourth in exchange for Sammy Watkins. We lost a first round pick the next year but Sammy still cost us two first round picks to draft. What two first round picks did we trade? Lemme guess, our 1st in '14 and our 1st in '15? You can't say that and NOT mention we got ANOTHER 1st round pick in return, from Cleveland; the #4 pick in the '14 draft. That represents a NET loss of ONE first round pick. Again, and for the final time, saying we TRADED two first round picks for Sammy is not the same as saying we invested two first round picks in drafting him. This argument was fun for a few minutes a few years ago. I'm officially done with it. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 What two first round picks did we trade? Lemme guess, our 1st in '14 and our 1st in '15? You can't say that and NOT mention we got ANOTHER 1st round pick in return, from Cleveland; the #4 pick in the '14 draft. That represents a NET loss of ONE first round pick. Again, and for the final time, saying we TRADED two first round picks for Sammy is not the same as saying we invested two first round picks in drafting him. This argument was fun for a few minutes a few years ago. I'm officially done with it. Enjoy. You're not gonna go all "NDBUFFCUSE" on us are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 You're not gonna go all "NDBUFFCUSE" on us are you? Haha! I couldn't no matter how hard I'd try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I do, especially in a contract year. Guys are motivated and judged by success. The egos are so big that they want to be considered the best. Sometimes we confuse poor play with lack of effort. Gilmore is not a great tackler and so it looks like he doesn't care in run support. Mario was asked to set the edge in that stupid defense. It's a different role. I understand why people might feel like that but from my experience these guys bust their butts to be great. It doesn't always work that way but it isn't for a lack of effort or apathy. Maybe another way to put it is that they care A LOT more than most people think that they do. All this ^^ PLUS if you listen to ANY retired player, they all will tell you the second you don't go full out, you get caught up in the wash and injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 So did we decide how many 1st round picks we used on Sammy yet? I find it easier to avoid the used versus traded semantics and just say that drafting Watkins cost the Bills 2 first round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 So did we decide how many 1st round picks we used on Sammy yet? Last I saw it was 13 plus 9 4ths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaz Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Sorry guys this one's on me. I bought his jersey. Stupid stupid stupid. Shoulda known better. If we trade him im done buying anyones jersey anymore. It's like my own personal Madden curse. Or maybe i'll put this curse to good and buy a Brady jersey.... I own a Fletcher jersey. Bought it in the spring and he was gone the next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) To me, the worst case scenario is you keep him and he's injured next season and then you drop him and get nothing. The notion that unless he goes to Jets, Cleveland, or a similar team, it's a stupid move makes no sense to me. If you don't think you're getting the better of it, you don't do it. If you think it's a good deal you do it. If the Bills hadn't given up so much for him, it wouldn't even be a big deal to trade him. I have to trust the FO on this one. Worst Case ? is correct. Best case is tougher to fathom. He kicks a$$ in the new system and sets personal records..... and then Wants to sign in Buffalo when teams are clamoring for him. I am in the camp of drafting WRs 1a 1b 2 xyz. No problem letting them go when it is time to get rich. Unless they are a proven commodity. Perhaps I am risk adverse. And I think his ilk can be found almost every years draft. Sorry Kirby ! Trade him if the right offer is made, and that is above my pay grade as to what that is. Go Bills ! So did we decide how many 1st round picks we used on Sammy yet? impossible calculation actually. fact Some fans are prepping themselves for a Watkins departure. So they are coming up with excuses already for why he's a bum and why it will be a good trade. It truly is amazing. psychology 102 part B addendum 6014 You're not gonna go all "NDBUFFCUSE" on us are you? Edited May 30, 2017 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I truly believe that Sammy Watkins has Julio Jones type talent....... Sure wish he could stay healthy and put all this stuff to rest tha'ts actually from president coolidge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo86 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 What two first round picks did we trade? Lemme guess, our 1st in '14 and our 1st in '15? You can't say that and NOT mention we got ANOTHER 1st round pick in return, from Cleveland; the #4 pick in the '14 draft. That represents a NET loss of ONE first round pick. Again, and for the final time, saying we TRADED two first round picks for Sammy is not the same as saying we invested two first round picks in drafting him. This argument was fun for a few minutes a few years ago. I'm officially done with it. Enjoy. We traded two first round picks + one fourth round pick for one first round pick, which we used to draft Sammy. That's what you're saying, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliBills92 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Then you are missing the point. Per target accounts for when he is thrown the ball. If OBJ is thrown the ball 20 times in a game he will have more catches and yards than Watkins getting it 6 times. I think that we'd all agree that Watkins needs to get the ball more. He needs to be healthy as well. You made a comment about talent vs. production. The production has been elite when he has been thrown to. Per attempt is really the only way to accurately compare players because it levels the playing field. That's what any sort of advanced stats do. That's why they are "advanced." That's not a cherry picked stat it's a fact. This Bills will throw the ball more this year and in turn you will the passing and receiving yards go up. Does that mean that they are at it? Not necessarily, it means they've thrown it more. It's a worthless cherry picked stat. It doesn't put points on the board and it doesn't win games. Sammy has not had an elite year yet in the NFL so stop saying he has elite anything at this point. He has on year of barely over a 1,000 yards and wasn't even top 10. Yes he has the physical talent but he hasn't been elite at anything in the NFL to this point. He can't stay on the field because he is constantly hurt with a slew of different injuries every year. So there is no rational non kool-aid drinking individual that would try and spin a 28 catch year in to being elite or the fact that he hasn't been a top in his own draft class in production: yards,receptions, TD's, etc. And the only thing you can come up with to defend his abysmal production which no one else uses is yards per target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 It's a worthless cherry picked stat. It doesn't put points on the board and it doesn't win games. Sammy has not had an elite year yet in the NFL so stop saying he has elite anything at this point. He has on year of barely over a 1,000 yards and wasn't even top 10. Yes he has the physical talent but he hasn't been elite at anything in the NFL to this point. He can't stay on the field because he is constantly hurt with a slew of different injuries every year. So there is no rational non kool-aid drinking individual that would try and spin a 28 catch year in to being elite or the fact that he hasn't been a top in his own draft class in production: yards,receptions, TD's, etc. And the only thing you can come up with to defend his abysmal production which no one else uses is yards per target. I don't think anyone has ever accused me of drinking the Koolaid on this board and I can state that Sammy Watkins is a special talent who the Bills would be foolish to trade for a low 1st or 2nd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 It's a worthless cherry picked stat. It doesn't put points on the board and it doesn't win games. Sammy has not had an elite year yet in the NFL so stop saying he has elite anything at this point. He has on year of barely over a 1,000 yards and wasn't even top 10. Yes he has the physical talent but he hasn't been elite at anything in the NFL to this point. He can't stay on the field because he is constantly hurt with a slew of different injuries every year. So there is no rational non kool-aid drinking individual that would try and spin a 28 catch year in to being elite or the fact that he hasn't been a top in his own draft class in production: yards,receptions, TD's, etc. And the only thing you can come up with to defend his abysmal production which no one else uses is yards per target. He has the 4th most yards in NFL history before his 24th birthday. How does that work for you? He has played in 77% of the games, Julio Jones was at 70.8% at the same point in his career. You must have hated him through 3 years. The last 9 games of the 2015 season he was the 4th most targeted receiver. He had the most yards in the league over that span. He wasn't elite at that point? (Credit to Bandit for some of these). FWIW, within the league they are not using gross stats because they aren't a bunch of simpletons. The 1st thing that they do is look at what you do with each opportunity. That's why Mike Gillislee got $4M this offseason. His YPC was phenomenal. We just need stop analyzing things with "what we think we are seeing" and start looking at the facts. He has been elite when thrown the ball. That's all that a receiver can do. Now he needs to get healthy and see the ball more for sure. If those things happen there is no reason to expect the production to be much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 He has the 4th most yards in NFL history before his 24th birthday. How does that work for you? He has played in 77% of the games, Julio Jones was at 70.8% at the same point in his career. You must have hated him through 3 years. The last 9 games of the 2015 season he was the 4th most targeted receiver. He had the most yards in the league over that span. He wasn't elite at that point? (Credit to Bandit for some of these). FWIW, within the league they are not using gross stats because they aren't a bunch of simpletons. The 1st thing that they do is look at what you do with each opportunity. That's why Mike Gillislee got $4M this offseason. His YPC was phenomenal. We just need stop analyzing things with "what we think we are seeing" and start looking at the facts. He has been elite when thrown the ball. That's all that a receiver can do. Now he needs to get healthy and see the ball more for sure. If those things happen there is no reason to expect the production to be much different. There's a reason why players who go to Buffalo lose value in dynasty leagues. Getting drafted by Buffalo is a death sentence for an NFL wide receiver. Sammy Watkins would be a huge star if he was playing with a real QB and a modern NFL offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 There's a reason why players who go to Buffalo lose value in dynasty leagues. Getting drafted by Buffalo is a death sentence for an NFL wide receiver. Sammy Watkins would be a huge star if he was playing with a real QB and a modern NFL offense. Yep, I cringe thinking of him going somewhere else. He is destined to be a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 It's hard to imagine that he's still so young. The truth is he has a lot of very, very good years left in the NFL. The rib injury was unfortunate (and a dirty hit), but he showed a lot of toughness for playing NFL football when I wouldn't have gotten off the couch. The foot is just a slow thing to heal, but others have done it given time. I would have gone with the 5th year option, but I think with the extra pressure this year he will be outstanding. I just hope he stays healthy and we have the horses to give him a chance to show what he can do. He will NOT be coasting in a contract year (and I don't think he ever did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I don't think anyone has ever accused me of drinking the Koolaid on this board and I can state that Sammy Watkins is a special talent who the Bills would be foolish to trade for a low 1st or 2nd round pick. Hey Jeff, if the Bills were going to trade Sammy over the summer, what would you think if the compensation were two 2nd round picks- with one of them being conditional...so basically two 2nd rounders at face value, but potentially a 1st and a 2nd rounder? I find it easier to avoid the used versus traded semantics and just say that drafting Watkins cost the Bills 2 first round picks. exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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