Charles Romes Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 I would hate for the Bills to ever leave Buffalo, but this story just confirms how taxpayers gets screwed time and time again when it comes to public financing for stadiums. I'd rather the Bills leave than the taxpayers of Buffalo, Erie County or New York get fleeced just to build a play pen for the rich owners of a sports franchise. Nevada Taxpayers, Please Bend Over Fleece away. I need my Bills.
Dragonborn10 Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 (edited) Nothing wrong with public financing as long as you know it will not be an investment in the community, it will not bring long term jobs, and it will be a huge cost to the taxpayer. We pay taxes for all kinds of things. I pay airport and hotel taxes all over the world. I have no issue with paying taxes - or asking the citizens of WNY to pay while I live on the west coast. Just be honest what I get in return. I get to watch the team I grew up with and enjoy/be miserable for 16 Sundays a year and have hope during the five month off-season. Just don't tell me it will be food for the city or bring any long term jobs. Stadiums don't and they never will. Edited May 26, 2017 by Dragonborn10
mead107 Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 Still money given to the jets and Giants in the NY budget. I would hate for the Bills to ever leave Buffalo, but this story just confirms how taxpayers gets screwed time and time again when it comes to public financing for stadiums. I'd rather the Bills leave than the taxpayers of Buffalo, Erie County or New York get fleeced just to build a play pen for the rich owners of a sports franchise. Nevada Taxpayers, Please Bend Over what's it going to cost you $50 a year? $100? I donate more than that To Erie county every time I come to Buffalo.
baskingridgebillsfan Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 Still money given to the jets and Giants in the NY budget. what's it going to cost you $50 a year? $100? I donate more than that To Erie county every time I come to Buffalo. probably less . In my opinion I like it shared reasonability . The League always contributes, the state and the owner should split the rest.
Nanker Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 It's odd. I remember a docent at Colonial Williamsburg saying that the House of Burgess would not meet past dusk. The rationale was that they would need candlelight to continue. And, purchasing candles was a waste of taxpayers' money. How far we've come.
Charlottebillsfan2 Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 Whether you think the taxpayers should pay for it or not is kind of irrelevant. Its all about supply and demand. Try playing hardball with a NFL franchise and see what happens (insert San Diego here). Their are several cities that would bend over backwards to own the Bills and pay for their stadium. These 32 owners are ruthless business people, that's why most of them are where are the financially. Politicians piss away taxpayers money all the time. At least your getting something back that's tangible and can improve the area of Buffalo.
justnzane Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 I say this every time, the European soccer teams do not make the public pay for stadia like we do. It considered the responsibility of the team to build their own palace. Many times the teams expand on existing grounds stand by stand instead of building a brand new stadium. Our government is so damn stupid to not figure this out.
SoCal Deek Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 The core of the problem has been the increasingly lavish nature of the stadiums themselves. These facilities are WAY over designed. You simply don't need the kind of amenities that they're building into them. I would still like to see Buffalo get a new stadium...but one that speaks to the 'working man' nature of the fan base. One that has a game day experience fitting WNY. As a practicing Architect the idea of a Buffalo-like Stadium really is intriguing.
KellyToughII Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 It's odd. I remember a docent at Colonial Williamsburg saying that the House of Burgess would not meet past dusk. The rationale was that they would need candlelight to continue. And, purchasing candles was a waste of taxpayers' money. How far we've come. Ok thats damn funny
Kirby Jackson Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 I don't care if the team moves, but that is just me. I have always felt, if the NFL wants bigger stadiums, then let the NFL pay for them.Those that don't care about the team moving clearly don't understand what the Bills mean to WNY. It's beyond disappointing to see that from Bills "fans." I say this every time, the European soccer teams do not make the public pay for stadia like we do. It considered the responsibility of the team to build their own palace. Many times the teams expand on existing grounds stand by stand instead of building a brand new stadium. Our government is so damn stupid to not figure this out.I think that they've figured it out but it's a matter of leverage. The owners have the leverage here because there are a line of cities that will take your team and pay for your stadium. Is Arsenal going to threaten to move if the taxpayers don't step up? Nope
KellyToughII Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 Those that don't care about the team moving clearly don't understand what the Bills mean to WNY. It's beyond disappointing to see that from Bills "fans." I think that they've figured it out but it's a matter of leverage. The owners have the leverage here because there are a line of cities that will take your team and pay for your stadium. Is Arsenal going to threaten to move if the taxpayers don't step u Dear God. Anyway, Continue to do more to the Ralph and tell the Greedy NFL to shove it.
VABills Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 That story was weak on facts. They talk about the lost revenue due to the recession, but a large chuck is due to the disapproval of federal travel and conferences in Vegas after the bad things done by by a few folks. But the stadium is being paid for by a relatively small tax on hotel rooms. In Buffalo your not going to get the same capability, but I am sure if they can get the region involved and maybe even Canada/Ontario to chip in?
Maddog69 Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 I have two thoughts on the matter 1.) this is how the game is played. If we don't pony up to help finance a new stadium, someone else will. And just like in Cleveland, the cost to get them back (or get another team) will only be exponentially higher. 2.) If the money isn't spent on our stadium, NYS will find another way to waste our tax money. It might as well go to something I want.
bigK14094 Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 Study after study shows that public financing is a losing financial proposition for cities and states, so I'm not sure what the spoils of being an NFL city really amount to. With that said, a small public contribution isn't terribly objectionable, but when you see how badly Las Vegas got bilked, as well as other cities mentioned in the article, you have to be concerned about how owners are able to extort dollars from the taxpayers. Some things can't be calculated wrt benefits to an area that has an NFL franchise. Prestige on a national basis for one. Intangibles or, in accounting terms, "good will" are not comprehended in these studies. A public private partnership will have difficulty, however, because objective may not be the same...thus making a bad partnership. Public fund advocates will try to force a new stadium downtown.....about the worst possible choice from a fan point of view. The lack of roads in and out, and parking...as well as the loss of the tailgate culture might well result in a bath of red ink for the owners. A suburban location with 360 degrees of roads in and out is what is required, and I doubt the Erie County officials will support that choice. Bottom line, I don't think a new stadium is in the works for Buffalo in my lifetime.
boyst Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 I don't care that its billionaire owners. The NFL owners are no different then any other corporation and offer something to benefit the community and revenue. So, as long as its a fair deal by states, counties, cities I'm good. Keep federal jazz out of this.
4_kidd_4 Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 Dear God. Anyway, Continue to do more to the Ralph and tell the Greedy NFL to shove it. Agree. We are taxed enough in NYS/WNY. No subsidies for the billionaire's club. There is no economic benefit for the community, it's been proven over and over. As for the area's "psyche" if the team goes, well, life will go on. Sure I want them to stay, but not via holding the community hostage.
cd1 Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 This is NOT just an NFL thing... This is a common practice used for economic development in most every community in every state. Rochester, NY has bent over backwards with tax breaks and other incentives just to lure in new businesses in an attempt to fill the void left by Kodak, et al. Big businesses ALWAYS use this leverage with communities. Tax Incentives and Subsidies: Two Staples Of Economic Development ...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 Dear God. Anyway, Continue to do more to the Ralph and tell the Greedy NFL to shove it. You said it not me. The precedent is there. The owners have the leverage not the states. It will probably require maybe $300M of public money. If a county of roughly a million people and a state of 19.65 million people can't scrape that together I'm sure San Antonio will. I'm always surprised at how ignorant people are on the topic. It's been laid out here 1,000+ times. I'm not going to waste my time going through it again but there are so many easy ways to do that.
Marv's Neighbor Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 This is an old and universal problem. The NFL knows they are running out of "other cities" when it comes to franchise locations in the USA. NFL Europe has already failed, and one game a year in Mexico City, London & Tokyo, does not represent a season(s). This country had had stagnated economic growth for over 10 years, the middle class has shrunk, and the taxpayers are generally in no mood to entertain stadium projects. Vegas has been off limits for years because of the co-located gambling but now we have the Raiders going to Vegas. Once again the politicians are not listening to the people, and the Vegas stadium, and its debt, will be the result. Can't think of anywhere else where this could happen, right now.
major Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 best quote of the day : public funded football only stadiums are a total scam I guess I'll be the only one to agree with you. Public funded football only stadiums are a total scam and not the slightest bit in the public interest. They cost a fortune, are rarely ever utilized outside of the few football dates per year, take up a ton of valuable real estate (or if they're built in the boonies cost a ton in infrastructure improvements) and generate minimal jobs and income for the area. If politicians cared at all about the regular tax payer they would put it to a referendum, except that they have noticed that those don't go so well so they don't Here in Charlotte, they had a referendum on a new downtown arena. Lost. And then build the stadium anyway using a different (but still public) funding stream. That's how much they care about what the tax payers want.
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