Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/22/tim-grahams-power-take-doug-whaley-wasted-time/ "What rookie GM doesn't know this from the jump? How did Whaley not understand EJ Manuel wasn't the answer when Doug Marrone preferred Kyle Orton off his sofa eight days before the 2014 opener, or when Rex Ryan preferred Matt Cassel to Manuel as the backup?" Graham is being disingenuous and using 20/20 hindsight. 1) When EJ was drafted, everyone knew he was a project who would take several years to develop and determine "was he one of the 50-60% of 1st round draftees who bust, or one of the 40-50% who make it"? Compounding the situation was a lack of QB coach and being "thrown in the fire" his first season after Fitz got the ax and Kolb got his bell rung. 2) It's also pretty widely known in the league, that if a young player is put up against a vet player picking up a new system in training camp, the veteran will usually win out because he has more experience learning diff. systems The problem with the EJM draft pick is not that the Bills drafted him or gave him a chance, it's that they didn't draft a QB the previous year (Wilson, Foles, Cousins) or ANOTHER QB (besides another "raw, high potential but needs time" guy in Cardale) in the first 4 rounds in the next 3 years. There's really nothing to see here. Lacking clickbait from McWrestler and Mr Beane, Graham is excavating a dead horse to flagellate. Edited May 23, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan
JohnC Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 We'll have to wait a few years to see if either Watson or Mahomes turns out to be anything. Just being aggressive ensures nothing. Just ask the Redskins with their aggressive moves to get RGIII. In the same year that the Skins drafted Griffin they also drafted Cousins in the fourth round. He is their starter now. The person who didn't want to invest a lot of picks and future picks on Griffin was their coach, Shanahan. It was the owner who insisted on mortgaging the future on Griffin. Cousins was available for us in the third or fourth round. We did what we usually do and passed. Our saga continues.
Bill from NYC Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 Yet, he getting paid by a SB contender. But you obviously know more about football than them.CB, if EJ takes the field for any length of time, their "contender" days are over.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 CB, if EJ takes the field for any length of time, their "contender" days are over.I don't see him making the team. He's there to push Connor Cook. If Cook is competent in TC and the preseason they only keep 2 QBs imo.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 I don't see him making the team. He's there to push Connor Cook. If Cook is competent in TC and the preseason they only keep 2 QBs imo. Perhaps. But if he gets cut there, I think there's a good chance another team picks him up. In this QB-desperate league, it's pretty common that first round draft picks who bust out with the drafting team get 2nd and 3rd chances, especially at a budget price.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 Perhaps. But if he gets cut there, I think there's a good chance another team picks him up. In this QB-desperate league, it's pretty common that first round draft picks who bust out with the drafting team get 2nd and 3rd chances, especially at a budget price. Where? There's a reason that there aren't guarantees in his contract. Teams have changed the way that they fill out the QB depth chart. They have their starter, a developmental prospect (or 2) and in some cases a solid vet. He doesn't fit any of those roles. I said last year that he's more likely to be out of the league than a number 2. I think that's the likely scenario. Beating out Cook is his best chance at being a 2.
Bill_with_it Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 Graham is being disingenuous and using 20/20 hindsight. 1) When EJ was drafted, everyone knew he was a project who would take several years to develop and determine "was he one of the 50-60% of 1st round draftees who bust, or one of the 40-50% who make it"? Compounding the situation was a lack of QB coach and being "thrown in the fire" his first season after Fitz got the ax and Kolb got his bell rung. 2) It's also pretty widely known in the league, that if a young player is put up against a vet player picking up a new system in training camp, the veteran will usually win out because he has more experience learning diff. systems The problem with the EJM draft pick is not that the Bills drafted him or gave him a chance, it's that they didn't draft a QB the previous year (Wilson, Foles, Cousins) or ANOTHER QB (besides another "raw, high potential but needs time" guy in Cardale) in the first 4 rounds in the next 3 years. There's really nothing to see here. Lacking clickbait from McWrestler and Mr Beane, Graham is excavating a dead horse to flagellate. Kolb and Manuel Jackson had a qb competition day one. You are misremembering. Marrone and Whaley both dtated at the time it was a qb competition. Here is a link http://www.sportsmedia101.com/buffalobills/2013/06/13/buffalo-bills-quarterback-competition-down-to-kevin-kolb-ej-manuel/ Everybody keep saying what you said and its simply untrue.
Magox Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 Keep kicking the guy when he's down. No need to be so sensitive, the report from Graham is new and for many of us it is interesting.
HappyDays Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 Lesson learned: never take a project QB that you plan on keeping on the bench for a year. They never work out. The good news is we made for up for it by getting an additional 1st round pick for a similar prospect.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 EJ is making less and has less job security than TJ Yates. Give it up. If TJ Yates, who has worst numbers across the board than EJ, makes this team, we're dumb and wasting money. CB, if EJ takes the field for any length of time, their "contender" days are over. You're right. He's no Ryan Mallett!
Kirby Jackson Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 If TJ Yates, who has worst numbers across the board than EJ, makes this team, we're dumb and wasting money. You're right. He's no Ryan Mallett! I agree on Yates. I see ZERO reason to keep him. Either keep both developmental guys or just keep 2 QBs (probably Peterman). If you want Yates in the QB room through TC fine but there is no benefit to wasting a roster spot on him.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 I agree on Yates. I see ZERO reason to keep him. Either keep both developmental guys or just keep 2 QBs (probably Peterman). If you want Yates in the QB room through TC fine but there is no benefit to wasting a roster spot on him. 100% agree. Keep him to help learn the playbook with the others Qbs and give him a little money. Then cut him (and I'm sure he's a nice guy). Peterman and Jones can't be worse than what I've seen from Yates and they are much cheaper & have some upside.
billz4life820 Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 Funny that I was a piraiah on the BBMB for saying that before it was cool. I fought tooth and nail with people about EJ. He was literally the worst QB in the league, but you couldn't tell that to half of that board. He was the most over protected player I can ever remember in a bills uniform. It was sad. The guy was out played by every QB on the roster, each and every year he was in buffalo. Thank god he is gone. This is very true but bills fans do this with every below average qb and when they are off the team they move on to the next.... we saw the same with losman, edwards, fitzpatrick, manuel, and now it will be tyrod
Kirby Jackson Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 100% agree. Keep him to help learn the playbook with the others Qbs and give him a little money. Then cut him (and I'm sure he's a nice guy). Peterman and Jones can't be worse than what I've seen from Yates and they are much cheaper & have some upside. It was discussed a few weeks back in another thread and believe it or not there are A LOT of people on this board that think Yates makes the roster. To me, I see no benefit. If TT went down and you were worried about the young guys you can almost certainly sign Yates back off the street. If not Yates, Whitehurst, Ponder, Shaun Hill, maybe even RG3 are all potential short-term options. Those guys are no worse than Yates. Edited May 23, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Orlando Buffalo Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 I am not surprised he failed out based on the situation. When drafted he was suppose to sit a year behind a competent qb(Kolb) and develop how to be a pro-not a college qb. he was thrown into the wolves and told do not lose the game which is an awful way to learn. Marrone then benched him for Orton who is not a good teammate by all accounts I read. He then tries to relearn how to be a qb in year three. He is not good right now but I wish him the best and hope that Oakland can make him good since he seems like a decent man. All that being said DW knows the NFL is QB driven and he never hit there. he improved about every other position but not the most important.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 It was discussed a few weeks back in another thread and believe it or not there are A LOT of people on this board that think Yates makes the roster. To me, I see no benefit. If TT went down and you were worried about the young guys you can almost certainly sign Yates back off the street. If not Yates, Whitehurst, Ponder, Shaun Hill, maybe even RG3 are all potential short-term options. Those guys are no worse than Yates. All of those guys you named are upgrades over Yates. And I just want to hang out with Clipboard Jesus. He gets paid for nothing and lives an awesome life.
jeffismagic Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 I am not surprised he failed out based on the situation. When drafted he was suppose to sit a year behind a competent qb(Kolb) and develop how to be a pro-not a college qb. he was thrown into the wolves and told do not lose the game which is an awful way to learn. Marrone then benched him for Orton who is not a good teammate by all accounts I read. He then tries to relearn how to be a qb in year three. He is not good right now but I wish him the best and hope that Oakland can make him good since he seems like a decent man. All that being said DW knows the NFL is QB driven and he never hit there. he improved about every other position but not the most important. I don't think EJ would have succeeded under any team but to have Nate Hackett as his OC and QB coach was so Billsy.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 I don't think EJ would have succeeded under any team but to have Nate Hackett as his OC and QB coach was so Billsy. Andrew Luck, a generational qb prospect, had Bruce Arians as his rookie year OC. Your boy has Andy Reid. EJ had Nate Freakin' Hackett.
jeffismagic Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 Andrew Luck, a generational qb prospect, had Bruce Arians as his rookie year OC. Your boy has Andy Reid. EJ had Nate Freakin' Hackett. And EJ looked his best as a rookie! He got worse after 4 years of Bills "coaching".
ALF Posted May 23, 2017 Posted May 23, 2017 Rex wasted our time far more . Whaley gave HCs the players they wanted.
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