Tim Graham:Whaley wasted everyone's time.

[Thurman#1]

Buddy Nix created his own steaming pile.

 

Let's not forget that the Bills were constantly at 7-9 under Jauron until his final season in 2009 which was 6-10 . Nix came in for the 2010 season and the team went 4-12 with an 8 game losing streak. Anyone else recall Nix's words that off season? You're not going to believe this, but we're close! Close alright, close to the worst in the league!

 

That was obvious P.R. language. They were doing a complete rebuild. Of course they were going to suck and Nix knew it. But you can't say that.

 

That's why they lost more the first two - three years under Nix. That's what happens when you rebuild. The strongest lineup this team has fielded in recent years was pretty much the one operating with mostly Nix guys.

 

Look at the defense in Whaley's first year and which guys were brought in under Nix and not Whaley ... Alan Branch (Nix), Mario Williams, Marcell Dareus, Kyle Williams (pre-Nix, but he kept him around), Kiko Alonso, Manny Lawson (Nix), McKelvin, (pre-Nix), Gilmore, Aaron Williams, Jairus Byrd. And Hughes, and Nix pulled the trigger on that one too. The next year too the excellent defense was almost all Nix guys. Where he laid a major egg was bringing in OLs like Legursky and Colin Brown, and Cornell Green as you mentioned below. But he built the foundation of a very very fine defense indeed.

 

The reason Nix's legacy is now tarnished is that though he drafted pretty well and put together a good group of players on defense and a few on offense, he didn't bring in a QB and he did bring in his own replacement, a guy who turned out not to be able to do the job. That's where Nix fell down and hurt his own reputation. He brought in Whaley. It's what his reputation was always likely to rest on.

 

 

 

 

Look back at that 2010 draft and free agency period to see that both stunk under Nix. FA DE Dwan Edwards 4 years, 18 Mill only worked for two seasons. The offensive line was a complete joke since trading away all pro LT Peters and then attempting to replace him with guys like Demetress Bell under Nix. Not to mention the complete scrubs at RT like Cornell Green for 2 mill per that lasted 5 games. Others at RT include notable scrubs like Cordaro Howard, Mansfield Wrotto.

 

Needless to say that Bills QB Fitzpatrick was literally running for his life most of 2010. The Bills drafted a "waterbug" in CJ Spiller when the real need was at tackle for both sides.

 

 

The Bills paid huge money to Mario Williams in 2012 because the scouting dept failed to find a decent pass rusher in the draft since Schobel retired at the end of 2009. However, they did make lame attempts with Aaron Maybin, Alex Carrington. The Bills also paid big money to McCoy, Clay because they failed to find that elite talent in the draft.

 

Both Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley were a colossal waste of time. Look at the holes in the roster for the 2017 season pre draft to see this team wasn't even close to competing with the Patriots.

 

 

Things have improved greatly from the HC, GM, scouting dept in my view. Now I just hope the owner gives these new men time to clear out the crap and build a solid contender.

Come on, you can't blame Jason Peters on Nix. He was still working in San Diego when the Bills let him go. He didn't replace him well until Cordy Glenn, but he is in fact the guy who finally drafted Cordy.

Same with Maybin. Nix was on the staff at the time but wasn't the GM and the word was that the guy who made that pick was Jauron. As part of a consensus of course between Russ and Marv.

The Spiller pick was a bad one indeed, you're very right. He did make mistakes but if Whaley had turned out to be a good GM, Nix would have looked pretty damn good in retrospect.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Thurman#1

[BringBackOrton]

first of all its a little early to judge all of whaleys 3 drafts but have u actually seen nixs drafts, they are horrible.

 

2010 - spiller, troupe, carrington,

followed by a bunch of other

scrubs, easley the only one who

contributed but as a 4th round wr

also sucked

 

2011 - dareus from one the best top tens

ever, a williams failed as a cb but

was good at s, sheppard was

terrible, searcy is average but a

good 4th round pick, the rest all

nobodys

 

2012 - gilmore and glenn were hits,

followed by 6 terrible picks and

bradham being average

 

2013 - ej, yes he did draft ej. Woods and

alonso are maybe slightly above

average at best, the rest are not

any good.

 

So in 4 drafts with 8,9,9, & 9 picks he got 3 star players and 4-5 average players and u think that is good

 

Not sure where bill with it got wood byrd and levitre from as brandon was gm then

Whaley was 2013.

 

Whaley had 3 drafts and got 1 star. Nix had three drafts and got 3. Whaley had 3 drafts and got 2 solid starters who will finish out his first contract with us. Nix had 3 drafts and got 3 solid starters who played 4 years here, one of which got a second contract with the Bills.

 

Yes, that''s clearly better. Drafting is judged by the quality of player and the length they played with the Bills.

Edited May 27, 2017 by jmc12290

[NoSaint]

I've said it in other postings that this is at least a three year project to get back into being a relevant team. I strongly disagree with those who believe that the Bills will be a playoff team this year. In my mind they are not close because this roster is simply too thin and lacks depth that a grinding season requires.

 

If the Bills draft a qb next year then that prospect is going to take at least another two to three years to get acclimated to the pro game. If the pressure gets too strong for a more immediate result then the free agent or trade market could also be an option to help this team become respectable.

 

I still strongly contend that the Bills made a big mistake not selecting either Watson or Mahomes in this year's draft. Avoiding an issue is not addressing an issue!

 

I agree with your assessment.

There is absolutely no reason this needs to be a 3 year project. There are certainly acceptable ways it could drag into that though.

[Thurman#1]

The 2013 offseason was Whaleys. Nix was phased out.

 

 

 

That's always been a popular thing for people who liked Whaley to say.

 

There's never been the slightest indication there's any truth to it, though. No evidence of any kind. Nobody but fans have ever said it.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Thurman#1

[JaCrispy]

How was Doug Whaley, a professional front office person in the national football league, the only person in western NY that thought he didn't need to draft a QB after EJ, while millions of Bills fans were screaming for one for 4 years?

 

This is why i would question at times whether certain members of the message board could do a better job than Whaley...it was a legitimate question imo.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

 

That's always been a popular thing for people who liked Whaley to say.

 

There's never been the slightest indication there's any truth to it, though. No evidence of any kind. Nobody but fans have ever said it.

I don't know how much my word stands but Whaley was at least as important to the decisions that year as Nix.

[Thurman#1]

As for whether Whaley's term was a waste of time, look at the win-loss record, at whether we got a QB and at the quality of the roster when he arrived and when he left.

 

Yup. a waste of time and it's hard to look at it any other way.

[Kirby Jackson]

As for whether Whaley's term was a waste of time, look at the win-loss record, at whether we got a QB and at the quality of the roster when he arrived and when he left.

 

Yup. a waste of time and it's hard to look at it any other way.

That's an odd way to look at it because the record improved and they got the best QB play that they have gotten in 15 years. Under his watch there was improvement there.

 

If you are trying to support the "Whaley sucks side" I'd probably point to the coaching staffs, drafting injured players and EJ. Those are the things that support "he's a failure."

[Thurman#1]

I don't know how much my word stands but Whaley was at least as important to the decisions that year as Nix.

 

 

I don't know how much your word stands out either, Kirby. Are you the real Kirby?

 

In any case, I'd be very willing to believe he was really important in decision-making. After all, he was the assistant GM and the heir apparent. But people want to say what this guy said, that Whaley was in charge and Nix had been phased out.

 

I'm not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Nix was clearly trying to get Whaley ready. But I've seen no evidence that he was marginalized or didn't have final yes or no say, whether or not he used it to veto anything by anybody.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I don't know how much your word stands out either, Kirby. Are you the real Kirby?

 

In any case, I'd be very willing to believe he was really important in decision-making. After all, he was the assistant GM and the heir apparent. But people want to say what this guy said, that Whaley was in charge and Nix had been phased out.

 

I'm not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Nix was clearly trying to get Whaley ready. But I've seen no evidence that he was marginalized or didn't have final yes or no say, whether or not he used it to veto anything by anybody.

That was the case. They obviously worked together but maybe this will make sense. Nix couldn't have added a guy that Whaley didn't sign off on while Whaley probably could have added a guy that Nix didn't want. As far as I know that situation didn't arise but as I understand it that was the case.

[thebandit27]

That's an odd way to look at it because the record improved and they got the best QB play that they have gotten in 15 years. Under his watch there was improvement there.

 

If you are trying to support the "Whaley sucks side" I'd probably point to the coaching staffs, drafting injured players and EJ. Those are the things that support "he's a failure."

You could also point to the odd concession of suspension-related recouping of gtd $$ in the Dareus contract as a major indictment against Whaley as well.

[Thurman#1]

That's an odd way to look at it because the record improved and they got the best QB play that they have gotten in 15 years. Under his watch there was improvement there.

 

If you are trying to support the "Whaley sucks side" I'd probably point to the coaching staffs, drafting injured players and EJ. Those are the things that support "he's a failure."

 

 

2012: 6-10

May 13, 2013, Nix steps away

2013: 6-10

2014: 9-7

2015: 8-8

2016: 7-9

 

Start to finish, if there's improvement there, it's very marginal indeed.

 

As for QB play, the best the Bills have had in 16 years? I'd take Bledsoe's first year, myself. But maybe. But saying that they got the best QB play that the Buffalo Bills have had in 16 years is like saying they got the most talented actor out of Rob Schneider, Adam Sandler, Dane Cook, Matthew Lillard and Ashton Kutcher. They didn't have a franchise QB going into his term and that's what it looks like going out.

 

I'm talking specifically about the phrase "waste of time." I totally agree, again based on win-loss, the lack of a franchise QB on the roster and the overall quality of the roster he acquired vs. the roster he passed on.

That was the case. They obviously worked together but maybe this will make sense. Nix couldn't have added a guy that Whaley didn't sign off on while Whaley probably could have added a guy that Nix didn't want. As far as I know that situation didn't arise but as I understand it that was the case.

 

 

Who are you? How did you come across this info?

Edited May 27, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Kirby Jackson]

You could also point to the odd concession of suspension-related recouping of gtd $$ in the Dareus contract as a major indictment against Whaley as well.

Certainly

 

These debates all have a list of pros and cons for a guy. This goes for players, coaches, GMs, owners, etc... Presumably, you've formed your opinion based on the value of one side of that ledger vs. the other. If you want to argue that "Whaley sucks" don't use what he did well to support your case. Honestly, we can almost always argue both sides of these debates (except when it comes to clear mistakes like Rex and EJ). Should we have signed MG? Is Tyrod the guy? Should we have picked up Sammy's option? Can Ragland play in space? Was trading up for Dawkins a good move?...and on and on and on. You can make a strong case on both sides of those questions but to do that you would use the facts that support your case not the ones that contradict it.

[thebandit27]

 

 

2012: 6-10

May 13, 2013, Nix steps away

2013: 6-10

2014: 9-7

2015: 8-8

2016: 7-9

 

Start to finish, if there's improvement there, it's very marginal indeed.

 

As for QB play, the best the Bills have had in 16 years? I'd take Bledsoe's first year, myself. But maybe. But saying that they got the best QB play that the Buffalo Bills have had in 16 years is like saying they got the most talented actor out of Rob Schneider, Adam Sandler, Dane Cook, Matthew Lillard and Ashton Kutcher. They didn't have a franchise QB going into his term and that's what it looks like going out.

 

I'm talking specifically about the phrase "waste of time." I totally agree, again based on win-loss, the lack of a franchise QB on the roster and the overall quality of the roster he acquired vs. the roster he passed on.

 

 

 

Who are you? How did you come across this info?

He used to work for the organization and has been employed by more than 1 pro sports franchise--he's provided solid info on multiple occasions.

Certainly

 

These debates all have a list of pros and cons for a guy. This goes for players, coaches, GMs, owners, etc... Presumably, you've formed your opinion based on the value of one side of that ledger vs. the other. If you want to argue that "Whaley sucks" don't use what he did well to support your case. Honestly, we can almost always argue both sides of these debates (except when it comes to clear mistakes like Rex and EJ). Should we have signed MG? Is Tyrod the guy? Should we have picked up Sammy's option? Can Ragland play in space? Was trading up for Dawkins a good move?...and on and on and on. You can make a strong case on both sides of those questions but to do that you would use the facts that support your case not the ones that contradict it.

Indeed

[Thurman#1]

He used to work for the organization and has been employed by more than 1 pro sports franchise--he's provided solid info on multiple occasions.

 

 

Allright, that's pretty interesting, I'll keep it in mind.

[zonabb]

Universe: Tim Graham Wasting Everybody's Time

 

Can't understand why anyone reads anything in the media. What makes the opinion of some chubby white writer credible? Seriously, not a rhetorical question. Why because someone got a degree in writing and interviewing but has never worked in the NFL, played college or pro football, run an organization of any kind, coached professionally, or managed a budget do people somehow give his work credence? It's the ultimate credibility question. And again, the local hacks here are AAA reporters and opinionators, in a tiny third world media market outside the top 50. They're nobodies. Stop reading. Stop using their work as the starting point for your opinions and understanding.

[vorpma]

Universe: Tim Graham Wasting Everybody's Time

 

Can't understand why anyone reads anything in the media. What makes the opinion of some chubby white writer credible? Seriously, not a rhetorical question. Why because someone got a degree in writing and interviewing but has never worked in the NFL, played college or pro football, run an organization of any kind, coached professionally, or managed a budget do people somehow give his work credence? It's the ultimate credibility question. And again, the local hacks here are AAA reporters and opinionators, in a tiny third world media market outside the top 50. They're nobodies. Stop reading. Stop using their work as the starting point for your opinions and understanding.

Great post, I should be getting my facts and information from those who post here, that's the real deal! Expert opinion for zero cost!

[Fadingpain]

http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/22/tim-grahams-power-take-doug-whaley-wasted-time/

"What rookie GM doesn't know this from the jump? How did Whaley not understand EJ Manuel wasn't the answer when Doug Marrone preferred Kyle Orton off his sofa eight days before the 2014 opener, or when Rex Ryan preferred Matt Cassel to Manuel as the backup?"

The sad part is the myriad of idiots around here who agreed with Whaley and equally did not understand from the jump that EJ was worthless garbage and always would be.

 

"He needs more time!"

 

 

[JaCrispy]

Let's just be grateful Doug Whaley won't be picking our next QB...just from the Peterman pick I can see that McD is much smarter at that already

Edited May 27, 2017 by JaCrispy

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Let's just be grateful Doug Whaley won't be picking our next QB...just from the Peterman pick I can already see that McD is much smarter at that already

....whether Nix/Whaley...OR...Whaley/Nix....OR......beerman/Sanitary Engineer in Lot 1, OBD was taking a QB in the 1st for 2013...........so I doubt Whaley was a "rogue lone wolf"....besides their 1st choice was actually Genome Smith until they interviewed and worked him out....EJ was "second fiddle" and proved to have broken strings anyway....all OLD NEWS.....