26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 I just don't see any lessons learned by the Pegulas. The falling love with Lafontaine after meeting him out. Lafontaine hires Ted Nolan and Tim Murray (probably the best Pegula hire, not hired by them directly!) Lafontaine quits and leaves and they hire no guy to manage the Lafontaine role so that Murray can be the head of scouting and bring in players. Then they fire Murray because they wanted him to do more than what he was hired for! The falling in love with Rex Ryan when they listen to the money man Brandon and disregard the football GM's advice. Ryan plummets the team and Whaley is fired! The falling in love with Sean before ever meeting him. His name "jumps out at them" and he is on the yacht hanging out before the football guys ask him a single question. Pegulas are the problem. Let's all just hope they have the right team in place now in Beane and McDermott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Agreed - the fantasy-football-GM analogy I recently read was pretty spot on, as we/he went all in on a paper-tiger roster on offense during Rex's first year (except the most important position, obviously). I'm still going to look back on his tenure as a rather odd situation - he was GM in title for four years, and all indications are that he never was able to have his pick of a HC during the two hiring windows. I hate thinking in hypothetical scenarios during the drought, but I can't help but think if he'd have a much better reputation and tenure with us should any of the following have happened: Hue Jackson+Jim Schwartz, actually being able to stick around with McDermott, or not forcing ourselves to draft EJ during the horrid 2013 draft. I'm glad he took the high road and the subtle jab at Rex was well done... His personality made/makes him easy to root for, and I hope he'll have the opportunity to be a top FO executive in the short term future. I've always liked Whaley and think he has a real eye for talent...especially waiver wire, low budget FA'a and discarded players from other teams...his moves in that arena were exceptional. Draft history was up and down...found some nice players but too many times the guys we drafted didn't contribute enough...look at 2013...no players left...too many injured players drafted... He will land on his feet, and he is obviously a very classy person. Hard not to root for this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) I just don't see any lessons learned by the Pegulas. The falling love with Lafontaine after meeting him out. Lafontaine hires Ted Nolan and Tim Murray (probably the best Pegula hire, not hired by them directly!) Lafontaine quits and leaves and they hire no guy to manage the Lafontaine role so that Murray can be the head of scouting and bring in players. Then they fire Murray because they wanted him to do more than what he was hired for! The falling in love with Rex Ryan when they listen to the money man Brandon and disregard the football GM's advice. Ryan plummets the team and Whaley is fired! The falling in love with Sean before ever meeting him. His name "jumps out at them" and he is on the yacht hanging out before the football guys ask him a single question. Pegulas are the problem. Virtually everything you write is speculation. The Pegulas fell in love with Sean before meeting him? They fell in love with Rex after Svengali Brandon sold them? Etc. I don't imagine the behind-the-scenes dynamics the same way you do. As smart business people, I imagine the Pegulas did thorough due-diligence in each case, though in a couple cases reached the wrong conclusion. It happens. Right now, a lot of knowledgeable NFL insiders are praising the hiring of Beane and McD. Who knows - in the end they might all be proven wrong. But the Pegulas are making reasonable decisions. Edited May 23, 2017 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) Virtually everything you write is speculation. The Pegulas fell in love with Sean before meeting him? They fell in love with Rex after Svengali Brandon sold them? Etc. I don't imagine the behind-the-scenes dynamics the same way you do. As smart business people, I imagine the Pegulas did thorough due-diligence in each case, though in a couple cases reached the wrong conclusion. It happens. Right now, a lot of knowledgeable NFL insiders are praising the hiring of Beane and McD. Who knows - in the end they might all be proven wrong. But the Pegulas are making reasonable decisions. The Sean McDermott hiring was reported on by Vic Carucci. Carucci obviously has a very good source close to the situation as other people I have talked to are in agreement with his timeline. What does business have to do with creating a winning football team? Rex Ryan was a SUCCESSFUL move for the Bills BUSINESS. The winning on the field would have been a nice bonus. Edited May 23, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Former Bills GM Doug Whaley for the first time Monday addressed Buffalo's decision to allow RB Mike Gillislee to sign a two-year, $6.4 million offer sheet with New England last month. Whaley told SiriusXM NFL Radio that he believes the Patriots can "overpay" for players like Gillislee because Tom Brady is paid a less than market-value deal. While that is smart analysis - sometimes it makes sense to factor in how much better / worse the other team in the division will become - so it is a good idea to poach players from another team in the division (or prevent poaching by another team in the division) even if you overpay for them. Belichik does that all the time - with Hogan, Darelle Revis, Sammy Morris etc. He has particularly taken Rex Ryan to the cleaners a few times. See for example - http://deadspin.com/5835551/why-is-bill-belichick-stockpiling-mediocre-former-jets-this-offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 The Sean McDermott hiring was reported on by Vic Carucci. Carucci obviously has a very good source close to the situation as other people I have talked to are in agreement with his timeline. What does business have to do with creating a winning football team? Rex Ryan was a SUCCESSFUL move for the Bills BUSINESS. The winning on the field would have been a nice bonus. I think what Hondo is saying is that... you take something someone said/wrote about and drew a certain conclusion from it without a ton of information. All he's saying is that he believes that they may have taken a business like approach, not necessarily treated the team like a business. They went in looking for a certain type of candidate, and thought they found that guy in Mcdermott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I think what Hondo is saying is that... you take something someone said/wrote about and drew a certain conclusion from it without a ton of information. All he's saying is that he believes that they may have taken a business like approach, not necessarily treated the team like a business. They went in looking for a certain type of candidate, and thought they found that guy in Mcdermott. The evidence that the Pegulas have taken a careful, well thought out approach is where? The Lafontaine, Rex Ryan, and Sean McDermott hiring all demonstrate a faulty process. The Whaley firing was the end result, not the Pegulas careful decision to change course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 The evidence that the Pegulas have taken a careful, well thought out approach is where? The Lafontaine, Rex Ryan, and Sean McDermott hiring all demonstrate a faulty process. The Whaley firing was the end result, not the Pegulas careful decision to change course. That's your assumption based on your own bias. Don't take an assumption and present it as fact, which is something you are fond of doing. It's easy to cherrypick random facts to back up any position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 That's your assumption based on your own bias. Don't take an assumption and present it as fact, which is something you are fond of doing. It's easy to cherrypick random facts to back up any position. My conclusions are based on the the extensive reports on the hiring process for all three individuals. It is the people who assume the Pegulas can't make mistakes because they are rich who are backing up a position not supported by the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 My conclusions are based on the the extensive reports on the hiring process for all three individuals. It is the people who assume the Pegulas can't make mistakes because they are rich who are backing up a position not supported by the evidence. Also aided by revisionist history and benefit of hindsight vision. But carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 My conclusions are based on the the extensive reports on the hiring process for all three individuals. It is the people who assume the Pegulas can't make mistakes because they are rich who are backing up a position not supported by the evidence. Give it a rest, I actually like you but this "expert" label you keep assigning yourself is getting old. Whatever you want to tell yourself, your posting history on this board clearly indicates that you choose a position to take and then assemble a collection of facts to support that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Buffalo News SportsVerified account @TBNSports 38m38 minutes ago More .@VicCarucci: Doug Whaley might have been reaching on self-congratulations over Darby pick. #bills http://bit.ly/2qLrYnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 My conclusions are based on the the extensive reports on the hiring process for all three individuals. It is the people who assume the Pegulas can't make mistakes because they are rich who are backing up a position not supported by the evidence. I have said it before and I will say it again, if McD fails then most fans will fall back to this latest hire and demand that the Pegulas not be directly involved in finding the new HC/GM in 2019? As a fan I'm remaining hopeful that this new cast of characters can get things heading in the right direction. I wanted Whaley gone, I got that. Rex is gone. Now they have new guys with a new mentality and a clean slate. Leslie Frazier? Who loves that hire? It would be so easy to slam the Pegulas and every move they make because to this date they are 100% failures with both teams. Everyone understands your view of the hire and more importantly the process. When does the fan inside you take over and just hope everything works, until it doesn't? Sure everything and everyone may fail, odds probably favor that, but everyone also knows how you feel about that. So why not ride it out and see what happens? It's going to be a long 2-3 years talking about McYacht and the meeting he had with the owners. Time will be a plenty to slam this hire if it does indeed fail. I'm supporting the coach/GM until they give me reason not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 My conclusions are based on the the extensive reports on the hiring process for all three individuals. It is the people who assume the Pegulas can't make mistakes because they are rich who are backing up a position not supported by the evidence. You're presenting speculation as fact. You don't link any reports... and none of the people doing the reporting on this stuff were even there. That is the definition of speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I have said it before and I will say it again, if McD fails then most fans will fall back to this latest hire and demand that the Pegulas not be directly involved in finding the new HC/GM in 2019? As a fan I'm remaining hopeful that this new cast of characters can get things heading in the right direction. I wanted Whaley gone, I got that. Rex is gone. Now they have new guys with a new mentality and a clean slate. Leslie Frazier? Who loves that hire? It would be so easy to slam the Pegulas and every move they make because to this date they are 100% failures with both teams. Everyone understands your view of the hire and more importantly the process. When does the fan inside you take over and just hope everything works, until it doesn't? Sure everything and everyone may fail, odds probably favor that, but everyone also knows how you feel about that. So why not ride it out and see what happens? It's going to be a long 2-3 years talking about McYacht and the meeting he had with the owners. Time will be a plenty to slam this hire if it does indeed fail. I'm supporting the coach/GM until they give me reason not to. Good question. Maybe training camp? Or if they roll everyone in preseason and look like a well-oiled machine that would be a good sign. Everyone has a right to believe whatever they want. I personally have as much faith in monkeys throwing darts at a dartboard with names provided by the NFL as the process that was actually used. But the process can be terrible and still have a great result. I guess you can say that's the sliver of hope I have. You're presenting speculation as fact. You don't link any reports... and none of the people doing the reporting on this stuff were even there. That is the definition of speculation. I assumed most Buffalo fans were familiar with the process that ended up with Lafontaine, Ryan, and now McDermott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I assumed most Buffalo fans were familiar with the process that ended up with Lafontaine, Ryan, and now McDermott. You also assumed what you read in the buffalo news is exactly what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) You also assumed what you read in the buffalo news is exactly what happened. Are we about to go into the zone where Tyrod took a paycut because he loved Buffalo and he BILLIEVED? If you are making the case that the Buffalo News report by Carucci was wrong please point out what you believe was inaccurate and support it with other reporting or invalidate it using logical argument. Edited May 23, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Good question. Maybe training camp? Or if they roll everyone in preseason and look like a well-oiled machine that would be a good sign. Everyone has a right to believe whatever they want. I personally have as much faith in monkeys throwing darts at a dartboard with names provided by the NFL as the process that was actually used. But the process can be terrible and still have a great result. I guess you can say that's the sliver of hope I have. I assumed most Buffalo fans were familiar with the process that ended up with Lafontaine, Ryan, and now McDermott. I think you would be surprised with how many folks are also just hoping they got the hire right on accident. For the well oiled machine I don't expect anything of the sorts. I expect a lackluster start to the season and I will be looking for some mid-late season progress that could make me optimistic for 18'. New schemes, coaches, down roster, and personnel fits have me leaning low on the season win total. Whaley is gone and that's a huge plus, somewhere in this thread or the other Whaley they had an excerpt of his excuse making. Tom Brady took less money the Pats have added flexibility yada yada, no one asked you to turn OBD into Patriots Place, drafted like a fan and whined like one to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Not only that, the Pegulas did not listen to Whaley when he gave them football advice on the type of coach they should hire. And the guy who steered them wrong is still there. Agree wholeheartedly. Bills would be in playoffs with Hue Jackson as coach. Just my opinion, please dont' t have a meltdown, Rangers. I wish Whaley the best and hope he enjoys life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I have said it before and I will say it again, if McD fails then most fans will fall back to this latest hire and demand that the Pegulas not be directly involved in finding the new HC/GM in 2019? As a fan I'm remaining hopeful that this new cast of characters can get things heading in the right direction. I wanted Whaley gone, I got that. Rex is gone. Now they have new guys with a new mentality and a clean slate. Leslie Frazier? Who loves that hire? It would be so easy to slam the Pegulas and every move they make because to this date they are 100% failures with both teams. Everyone understands your view of the hire and more importantly the process. When does the fan inside you take over and just hope everything works, until it doesn't? Sure everything and everyone may fail, odds probably favor that, but everyone also knows how you feel about that. So why not ride it out and see what happens? It's going to be a long 2-3 years talking about McYacht and the meeting he had with the owners. Time will be a plenty to slam this hire if it does indeed fail. I'm supporting the coach/GM until they give me reason not to. Nice post. I didn't start calling for Whaley's head until after the halfway point of his 3rd season as GM, and McD/Beane will be no different if they also fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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