PFF:Taylor undervalued QB.

[mannc]

 

Yards per Catch per pass is the same thing.

i've not heard that term before. Doesn't make much sense.

[jeffismagic]

 

Winning a Super Bowl with a poor defense is also an outlier. And I'd argue that your point would be more accurate if you said winning with a one-dimensional offense is an outlier.

 

 

Where did I say I want a poor defense? You want complimentary football. New England is driven by their QB and the ability to score points at will. Their defense plays off that and there you go. That's what I want. Elite offense with a defense that can stop the other team enough times for the win.

[Kirby Jackson]

i've not heard that term before. Doesn't make much sense.

I would argue that yards per attempt is the most critical. It is the most all encompassing. You may average 15 yards per completion but if you are 1 of 5 that isn't good. How many yards can we expect on each passing attempt is a pretty good indicator. It speaks to the QB, the pass catcher and the design of the offense. I could care less if those yards are after a catch or in the air.

[jeffismagic]

i've not heard that term before. Doesn't make much sense.

 

Yard per catch per reception emphasizes the receiver. Yards per catch per pass emphasizes the QB. It's the same thing.

[mannc]

I would argue that yards per attempt is the most critical. It is the most all encompassing. You may average 15 yards per completion but if you are 1 of 5 that isn't good. How many yards can we expect on each passing attempt is a pretty good indicator. It speaks to the QB, the pass catcher and the design of the offense. I could care less if those yards are after a catch or in the air.

I completely agree. See my reply to Gunner, above.

 

Yard per catch per reception emphasizes the receiver. Yards per catch per pass emphasizes the QB. It's the same thing.

I'm confused. Are you talking about yards AFTER catch?

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

 

Where did I say I want a poor defense? You want complimentary football. New England is driven by their QB and the ability to score points at will. Their defense plays off that and there you go. That's what I want. Elite offense with a defense that can stop the other team enough times for the win.

You didn't, I'm just pointing out that several teams in recent history have done well with the opposite. An elite defense and an offense that scores enough to win. You may want the elite offense, but it's hardly the only way to succeed.

 

Also, you're using too many per's in your stat terminology. Nobody divides those numbers twice, that's why the other guy's getting confused.

[jeffismagic]

I completely agree. See my reply to Gunner, above.

I'm confused. Are you talking about yards AFTER catch?

 

Yes. But it is rated per attempt.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

Throwing a perfect slant pass to hit a receiver in stride is a skill that should not be dismissed. It really helps the offense when a QB can hit those passes as well as deep go patterns as the slants and YAC stuff moves the chains.

 

Yeah, it's not being dismissed. It's just perceived as a less difficult throw than those 30+ yard throws and, therefore, given less value.

 

According to Dennison, we should be seeing a lot more of those short timing patters with YAC built into the offense for Taylor, anyway. I don't think Taylor has a problem running that kind offense and making those throws, our offenses under Roman and Lynn didn't call them much, though Lynn definitely called them more than Roman once he took over.

[jeffismagic]

 

Yeah, it's not being dismissed. It's just perceived as a less difficult throw than those 30+ yard throws and, therefore, given less value.

 

According to Dennison, we should be seeing a lot more of those short timing patters with YAC built into the offense for Taylor, anyway. I don't think Taylor has a problem running that kind offense and making those throws, our offenses under Roman and Lynn didn't call them much, though Lynn definitely called them more than Roman once he took over.

 

The QB matters. I love how people just say Roman/Lynn sucked and Dennison is better. Based on what?

[3rdand12]

You didn't, I'm just pointing out that several teams in recent history have done well with the opposite. An elite defense and an offense that scores enough to win. You may want the elite offense, but it's hardly the only way to succeed.

 

Also, you're using too many per's in your stat terminology. Nobody divides those numbers twice, that's why the other guy's getting confused.

I appreciate your work in this thread. Perhaps you have exp. in Psychology?

Always a pleasure 13 !

[transplantbillsfan]

 

Winning a Super Bowl with a poor defense is also an outlier. And I'd argue that your point would be more accurate if you said winning with a one-dimensional offense is an outlier.

 

100% spot on!

 

Historically going waaaaaay back if you look up Super Bowl winners those teams are usually in the top 10 of at least one of 2 critical defensive stats: yards allowed and/or points allowed.

 

And this year was no exception.

 

 

Brady was pretty awful for more than half of that game against Atlanta and has a great defensive performance and a miracle catch by Edleman to thank for getting back on track to his HOF self.

[3rdand12]

 

The QB matters. I love how people just say Roman/Lynn sucked and Dennison is better. Based on what?

Dennison is different.

I would not suggest Roman sucked.

And Lynn? I very honestly was thinking Bills HC.

If Tyrod is going to step upon another level? he is in the Right Place.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

The QB matters. I love how people just say Roman/Lynn sucked and Dennison is better. Based on what?

 

What?

 

Are you denying that Lynn and especially Roman didn't have much playcalling with those short timing routes designed to get the ball out quickly for that YAC you so desperately crave?

 

I thought that was pretty obvious.

 

 

Or if you're questioning whether Dennison will do it more, apparently he said he would on WGR today

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/194093-rick-dennison-interview-on-wgr/

[C.Biscuit97]

Tyrod hater's worst nightmare is him having a playoff-caliber season.

What a silly post. Do you honestly believe a Bills fan, besides a moron, doesn't want Tyrod to have a good season? This is our stupid world now. There are only two choices. If you think Tyrod probably isn't a good enough qb to consistently win, you are a Tyrod hater. So dumb.

 

And as much as the nerds try, analytics will never fully work in football. There are too many variables that can't be accounted for.

[BuffaloHokie13]

I appreciate your work in this thread. Perhaps you have exp. in Psychology?

Always a pleasure 13 !

Nah, engineering. Numbers are kind of my thing haha.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

What?

 

Are you denying that Lynn and especially Roman didn't have much playcalling with those short timing routes designed to get the ball out quickly for that YAC you so desperately crave?

 

I thought that was pretty obvious.

 

 

Or if you're questioning whether Dennison will do it more, apparently he said he would on WGR today

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/194093-rick-dennison-interview-on-wgr/

Yeah, these coaches saw Tyrod ever day in practice and totally held him back.

 

Remember when the coaches were holding back JP Losman?

[jeffismagic]

 

What?

 

Are you denying that Lynn and especially Roman didn't have much playcalling with those short timing routes designed to get the ball out quickly for that YAC you so desperately crave?

 

I thought that was pretty obvious.

 

 

Or if you're questioning whether Dennison will do it more, apparently he said he would on WGR today

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/194093-rick-dennison-interview-on-wgr/

 

 

Anthony Lynn's preferred offense is a West Coast offense. The QB has to hit guys when they are open and not hold on to the ball too long. Stop blaming everyone but the QB for the QB's play.

[3rdand12]

Nah, engineering. Numbers are kind of my thing haha.

Oh , you are one of those slide ruling geeks i work with?

 

jk 13.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Yeah, it's not being dismissed. It's just perceived as a less difficult throw than those 30+ yard throws and, therefore, given less value.

 

According to Dennison, we should be seeing a lot more of those short timing patters with YAC built into the offense for Taylor, anyway. I don't think Taylor has a problem running that kind offense and making those throws, our offenses under Roman and Lynn didn't call them much, though Lynn definitely called them more than Roman once he took over.

Have people not watched Tyrod the last 2 years? Chris Hogan had more YAC last year than Sammy has had in 2 years!!! I'm not even mad at Tyrod. I think he has actually overachieved.

 

But this belief that there was some conspiracy that coaches and WRs are holding him back is just silly. He has never been a pinpoint passer. His best plays are generally made when he is playing sandlot football. Expecting him to be a west coast pin point passer is just silly,

 

 

Anthony Lynn's preferred offense is a West Coast offense. The QB has to hit guys when they are open and not hold on to the ball too long. Stop blaming everyone but the QB for the QB's play.

Hopefully, Lynn doesn't hold Rivers back this year.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Have people not watched Tyrod the last 2 years? Chris Hogan had more YAC last year than Sammy has had in 2 years!!! I'm not even mad at Tyrod. I think he has actually overachieved.

 

But this belief that there was some conspiracy that coaches and WRs are holding him back is just silly. He has never been a pinpoint passer. His best plays are generally made when he is playing sandlot football. Expecting him to be a west coast pin point passer is just silly,

 

Hopefully, Lynn doesn't hold Rivers back this year.

And Sammy has had ~350 more yards and 5 more TDs in 10 fewer games over those same 2 years. Why do you care if Sammy catches it 5 yards downfield vs 50 yards downfield?

Edited May 20, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13