Nanker Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 British “Master Spies”... Only one of them was real. That’s right. Benedict Arnold. The rest are flights of fiction. 2 1
Deranged Rhino Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 Seth just cant' give up the con, and can't give up being spectacularly wrong (about every single thing). 1
4merper4mer Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 17 hours ago, Nanker said: British “Master Spies”... Only one of them was real. That’s right. Benedict Arnold. The rest are flights of fiction. Clouseau? Shirley!
Deranged Rhino Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, BillsFanNC said: And at least two of those people belong in jail (Isikoff and Korn). 1
bdutton Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 @Deranged Rhino I'd like your take on this: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/statement-assistant-attorney-general-national-security-john-c-demers-public-release Quote Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers stated: “The Department of Justice has completed its review of the 29 FISA applications that were the subject of preliminary findings by the DOJ Inspector General (OIG) in March 2020. We are pleased that our review of these applications concluded that all contained sufficient basis for probable cause and uncovered only two material errors, neither of which invalidated the authorizations granted by the FISA Court. These findings, together with the more than 40 corrective actions undertaken by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National Security Division, should instill confidence in the FBI’s use of FISA authorities. We would like to express our appreciation to the OIG for their focus on the Department’s use of its national security authority. We remain committed to improving the FISA process to ensure that we use these tools consistent with the law and our obligations to the FISA Court. The ability to surveil and to investigate using FISA authorities remains critical to confronting current national security threats, including election interference, Chinese espionage and terrorism.” 1
Deranged Rhino Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, bdutton said: @Deranged Rhino I'd like your take on this: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/statement-assistant-attorney-general-national-security-john-c-demers-public-release There are two things at play with this review. Both related, but also separate. The first, and headline piece is that the review is damning to the entire "it was all done by the books" narrative regarding Crossfire Hurricane and the subsequent Mueller probe. It shows, without a doubt, that what happened to Page was an oddity. Not just a statistical anomaly, but something which can only be explained by people within the FBI putting their thumbs on the scale. The original take, way back in 2017 when issues over FISA abuse were starting to bubble up was that "it's impossible to fraudulently get a FISA, there are too many checks in the system! It's a conspiracy theory to think someone could rig the FISA process!" You had every "national security expert" and talking head on both sides of the aisle making this case for a year. That there was NO way the system could be abused. This was not just the left and never Trumpers, but also those in the middle who hadn't seen the full picture quite yet. And that defense, to those not paying attention, made sense to most. But then starting in 2018 and after Horowitz's report came out and found 17 grave/material errors in just Carter Page's FISA application, the spin doctors switched to "those were simple errors, probably happens all the time!" type defenses (while glossing over the deliberate deception committed by Clinesmith). This "final" review looked at 29 other FISAs within that same time period and found NONE of them had the type of grave/material errors which Page's FISA had. Not one -- which blows the second spin attempt out of the water. So, on this level -- the headline level -- what this review shows is that what happened with Page's warrant was deliberate, unusual, and specific. In other words, they knew the corners they had to cut to make it happen, and did. They didn't do it with any of the other applications on any other number of cases -- just Page and Trump. This makes it clear that what happened was a specific abuse of the surveillance system to target a political enemy of the administration. That lays the ground work (imo) for seditious conspiracy. The other level to this review/story, is that it also bolsters the arguments that the FISA/FISC system works better than many feared when the safeguards are adhered to. In many ways this is damage control for those people, the people in the middle who thought the system was secure but came to be alarmed with what they learned from the Page discoveries.This review helps the cause of the National Security people who have long argued (with merit) that the FISA/FISC are necessary tools and aren't abused often, and thus should not be scrapped entirely. So you have those types pushing this hard, not for the Trump/Russia angle, but for the "protect the FISA/FISC" angle. To that point, imo, the issue, as we saw with CH/Mueller was that when the FBI wants to abuse the system, they know how to do it in a way not easy to detect. THAT makes the entire FISA/FISC system terrifying... but I still don't have an answer as to a fix. 4 1 3
3rdnlng Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 53 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: There are two things at play with this review. Both related, but also separate. The first, and headline piece is that the review is damning to the entire "it was all done by the books" narrative regarding Crossfire Hurricane and the subsequent Mueller probe. It shows, without a doubt, that what happened to Page was an oddity. Not just a statistical anomaly, but something which can only be explained by people within the FBI putting their thumbs on the scale. The original take, way back in 2017 when issues over FISA abuse were starting to bubble up was that "it's impossible to fraudulently get a FISA, there are too many checks in the system! It's a conspiracy theory to think someone could rig the FISA process!" You had every "national security expert" and talking head on both sides of the aisle making this case for a year. That there was NO way the system could be abused. This was not just the left and never Trumpers, but also those in the middle who hadn't seen the full picture quite yet. And that defense, to those not paying attention, made sense to most. But then starting in 2018 and after Horowitz's report came out and found 17 grave/material errors in just Carter Page's FISA application, the spin doctors switched to "those were simple errors, probably happens all the time!" type defenses (while glossing over the deliberate deception committed by Clinesmith). This "final" review looked at 29 other FISAs within that same time period and found NONE of them had the type of grave/material errors which Page's FISA had. Not one -- which blows the second spin attempt out of the water. So, on this level -- the headline level -- what this review shows is that what happened with Page's warrant was deliberate, unusual, and specific. In other words, they knew the corners they had to cut to make it happen, and did. They didn't do it with any of the other applications on any other number of cases -- just Page and Trump. This makes it clear that what happened was a specific abuse of the surveillance system to target a political enemy of the administration. That lays the ground work (imo) for seditious conspiracy. The other level to this review/story, is that it also bolsters the arguments that the FISA/FISC system works better than many feared when the safeguards are adhered to. In many ways this is damage control for those people, the people in the middle who thought the system was secure but came to be alarmed with what they learned from the Page discoveries.This review helps the cause of the National Security people who have long argued (with merit) that the FISA/FISC are necessary tools and aren't abused often, and thus should not be scrapped entirely. So you have those types pushing this hard, not for the Trump/Russia angle, but for the "protect the FISA/FISC" angle. To that point, imo, the issue, as we saw with CH/Mueller was that when the FBI wants to abuse the system, they know how to do it in a way not easy to detect. THAT makes the entire FISA/FISC system terrifying... but I still don't have an answer as to a fix. Well said. 1
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