Warren Zevon Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 Bannon was subpoenaed last week for Mueller's Russia investigation. The news broke as Bannon was speaking with the House Intelligence Committee's Russia probe. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/us/politics/steve-bannon-mueller-russia-subpoena.html WASHINGTON — Stephen K. Bannon, President Trump’s former chief strategist, was subpoenaed last week by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, to testify before a grand jury as part of the investigation into possible links between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter. The move marked the first time Mr. Mueller is known to have used a grand jury subpoena to seek information from a member of Mr. Trump’s inner circle. The special counsel’s office has used subpoenas before to seek information on Mr. Trump’s associates and their possible ties to Russia or other foreign governments. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 Quote The FBI Hand Behind Russia-gate In the Watergate era, liberals warned about U.S. intelligence agencies manipulating U.S. politics, but now Trump-hatred has blinded many of them to this danger becoming real, as ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern notes. snip We suddenly have documentary proof that key elements of the U.S. intelligence community were trying to short-circuit the U.S. democratic process. And that puts in a new and dark context the year-long promotion of Russia-gate. It now appears that it was not the Russians trying to rig the outcome of the U.S. election, but leading officials of the U.S. intelligence community snip Even more unfortunately for Russia-gate enthusiasts, the FBI lovers’ correspondence provides factual evidence exposing much of the made-up “Resistance” narrative – the contrived storyline that The New York Times and much of the rest of the U.S. mainstream media deemed fit to print with little skepticism and few if any caveats, a scenario about brilliantly devious Russians that not only lacks actual evidence – relying on unverified hearsay and rumor – but doesn’t make sense on its face. The Russia-gate narrative always hinged on the preposterous notion that Russian President Vladimir Putin foresaw years ago what no American political analyst considered even possible, the political ascendancy of Donald Trump. According to the narrative, the fortune-telling Putin then risked creating even worse tensions with a nuclear-armed America that would – by all odds – have been led by a vengeful President Hillary Clinton. Worth the read. Authored by Ray McGovern (VIPs). Lays out what I've been saying for over a year now. What we have been witnessing isn't a Russian led disinformation campaign against the American people, but a disinformation campaign waged against the American people by its own USIC. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/01/11/the-fbi-hand-behind-russia-gate/
Nanker Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 Oh, Muller will be punished for breaking the law. I have every confidence in that.
boyst Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Nanker said: Oh, Muller will be punished for breaking the law. I have every confidence in that. When the song is over and there is one chair left it will be Trump. Somehow, someway Trump always stands strong. But, everyone will have mud on their face and the Clinton's blood on their hands.
row_33 Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, Nanker said: Oh, Muller will be punished for breaking the law. I have every confidence in that. yeah okay, nothing will be done... he's immune based on his role's mandate and restrictions
boyst Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 Just now, row_33 said: yeah okay, nothing will be done... he's immune based on his role's mandate and restrictions No one is inmune
row_33 Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: No one is inmune any government worker is immune for doing their job, outside of severe fraud or negligence during the course of their investigation. you can't sue them, they wouldn't take on the job without basically total immunity and the level of fraud and negligence is so high to reach to even begin considering charging them, forget it...
keepthefaith Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 50 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Worth the read. Authored by Ray McGovern (VIPs). Lays out what I've been saying for over a year now. What we have been witnessing isn't a Russian led disinformation campaign against the American people, but a disinformation campaign waged against the American people by its own USIC. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/01/11/the-fbi-hand-behind-russia-gate/ So in the end, Democrats in Congress who screamed that an independent prosecutor was needed will expose their own party's involvement in the stop Trump effort while Trump and his people won't be prosecuted for anything other than a few minor process or tax infractions.
row_33 Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 the only risk of a SP is to be fired by the President, which has its own safeguards against it happening unless direly necessary
Deranged Rhino Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Nanker said: Oh, Muller will be punished for breaking the law. I have every confidence in that. I realize this analysis could be wrong - but I still think it's possible, if not likely, Mueller was already pardoned (see his mysterious meeting with Trump the day before he took the SC job) and is actually working with the administration to flush out the corruption within the DOJ/FBI. 35 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: So in the end, Democrats in Congress who screamed that an independent prosecutor was needed will expose their own party's involvement in the stop Trump effort while Trump and his people won't be prosecuted for anything other than a few minor process or tax infractions. Sure is trending that way. The attempt to move away from the dossier is the giveaway. "She was never supposed to lose" - thus the full story about how the dossier came to be, about the 702 abuses by Fusion GPS under Holder's/Yates DOJ, and the abuses of the FISA court system was NEVER going to see the light of day. They were sloppy. Then, in April of 2016 when Rogers shut down Fusion's access to the FBI NSA data base, they were forced to find a legal way to spy on team Trump (enter Contreras and the dossier). Even then they were sure HRC was going to win, all they had to do was outlast Rogers (who would be replaced by Clinton) then everything would be sealed away... Then a miracle happened. Trump won, and their operation went from sloppy into FRENETIC. They had to act fast, and were even more sloppy in their attempts to use the dossier (and the leaks) to engineer a crisis of confidence in the new POTUS hoping to force an impeachment or a resignation before their dirty deeds could be fully outed. But what they failed to realize, what they failed to understand, is that while they were trying to pin the Russian tale on Trump - Horowitz and Sessions were quietly investigating the investigators with the IG report - of which 1.2 million pages of evidence are being turned over to Congress as we speak.
row_33 Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 But I hope the country only wants the prosecution of real and serious and proven crime. Making things up on the fly and chasing after ghosts is never a good thing, no matter who is being chased.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, row_33 said: But I hope the country only wants the prosecution of real and serious and proven crime. Making things up on the fly and chasing after ghosts is never a good thing, no matter who is being chased. The systemic abuse of the 702 system - by subcontractors to the FBI operating without oversight - in order to attempt to influence and rig an election and, when that didn't work, execute a soft coup against a legally elected POTUS in defiance of the American people and the constitution is about as serious of a crime as one could imagine DOJ officials committing. The evidence is OVERWHELMING this happened. And it's just scratching the surface of the corruption that's about to be exposed. These are serious crimes.
row_33 Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 I know DR, but isn't that business as usual or even a light load of evil for the last century? I'm not holding my breath that anything will come of it.
Koko78 Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Nanker said: Oh, Muller will be punished for breaking the law. I have every confidence in that. Prosecutors are largely immune to prosecution when acting as a prosecutor (they are immune for issues that are within the scope of their official duties). It's a very high burden to show that a prosecutor was not only acting outside the scope of their duties, but that, in addition, a cognizable constitutional right was violated. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: I know DR, but isn't that business as usual or even a light load of evil for the last century? I'm not holding my breath that anything will come of it. You're absolutely correct it's par for the course for previous administrations as well (for different reasons of course - not everyone was focused on Russia/Trump while abusing the powers of their office). You're absolutely correct that these things normally don't get punished. I think we are in a different world today though. With different rules. The evidence of this, to me, is the fact that these crimes have been publicly outed as much as they have (in addition to the global changes we've seen over the past 12-18 months). If we were operating under the same rules as before, none of this ever would have reached the mainstream as much as it has. But... I could be wrong. The safer bet is to assume it's going to go down as it's always gone down.
row_33 Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Prosecutors are largely immune to prosecution when acting as a prosecutor (they are immune for issues that are within the scope of their official duties). It's a very high burden to show that a prosecutor was not only acting outside the scope of their duties, but that, in addition, a cognizable constitutional right was violated. as i've posted 3 or 4 times on this page, outside of egregious fraud or negligence it's a no-go on prosecuting government workers doing their job. getting fired is Mueller's only real risk, and that had better be for good reasons... 8 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: You're absolutely correct it's par for the course for previous administrations as well (for different reasons of course - not everyone was focused on Russia/Trump while abusing the powers of their office). You're absolutely correct that these things normally don't get punished. I think we are in a different world today though. With different rules. The evidence of this, to me, is the fact that these crimes have been publicly outed as much as they have (in addition to the global changes we've seen over the past 12-18 months). If we were operating under the same rules as before, none of this ever would have reached the mainstream as much as it has. But... I could be wrong. The safer bet is to assume it's going to go down as it's always gone down. i've lived to see drunk driving become totally verboten and we are in the midst of sexual predation on women getting punished suddenly so there's always hope for basic common decency to arise in this area as well...
Koko78 Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: as i've posted 3 or 4 times on this page, outside of egregious fraud or negligence it's a no-go on prosecuting government workers doing their job. getting fired is Mueller's only real risk, and that had better be for good reasons... Most government workers have qualified immunity; prosecutors and judges have absolute immunity (when acting in the scope of their official duties).
row_33 Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Most government workers have qualified immunity; prosecutors and judges have absolute immunity (when acting in the scope of their official duties). yup, when i'm reviewing an RFP for government files I first go right to the Cover My Behind paragraphs... I have them well memorized. I've had both qualified and full-tilt immunity depends on the seriousness and security clearance levels
Deranged Rhino Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Most government workers have qualified immunity; prosecutors and judges have absolute immunity (when acting in the scope of their official duties). Correct - though Mueller's SC title wouldn't make him immune from any crimes discovered to have gone down while he was head of FBI (U-1, for example). Mueller is a creature of the swamp, he's gotten dirty in it during his tenure. But he also is a man who believes in justice. That he was not allowed to follow up (on a multi-year long investigation) by Holder always stuck in his craw. I'm betting Trump offered Mueller a deal: work with us on clearing the DOJ/FBI of corruption and go down a hero, or work against us and get exposed along with the rest of the swamp rats and have your legacy go down in flames. If he chose the former, which I think he did, I'm thinking he got a shiny pardon for any blow back he could face for exposing things during his tenure as FBI head. *edit: Remember, at the time of Trump's meeting with Mueller, Rogers already had all the goods on EVERYONE in the DOJ and had shared it with Trump's team - motivating their move from Trump Towers to NJ during the transition. Weissman, Rosenstein, and Mueller all tried prosecuting U1 indictments only to get slapped down by Holder. This is either their chance to continue that coverup for Holder and 44 (doubtful) or their chance to get righteous. But I can see how/why people think Mueller is dirty. It could end up breaking that way. Edited January 16, 2018 by Deranged Rhino
Warren Zevon Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 Back in the land of reality, Bannon was subpoenaed this afternoon (second time in as many weeks for those keeping score) to comply with the House Intelligence hearing. Sources (from Fox reporter Chad Pergram) say Bannon was directed by the White House to not answer any questions about the White House and the transition. In my opinion, the bolded is an example of obstruction of justice.
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