Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, BullBuchanan said: Right. Like I said, he tampered with witnesses in the Russia Investigation because it was fake. Did anyone tell him that? That's not what he was charged with Bull. Read the documents for yourself. He tampered with witnesses in his own case -- and the person he "tampered with" admitted it wasn't tampering. (his own case was not about Trump/Russia)
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, BullBuchanan said: #Deepstate Funny how that meme doesn't list what they were charged with -- or that it hasn't been updated to show that the charges against the only Russians named were dropped due to a faulty foundation. But what do you care about facts when you have a conspiracy theory to push, amirite, Bull?! * Cohen/Manafort/van der Zwaan/Gates -- all convicted of crimes having nothing to do with 2016 * G-Pop -- convicted for lying to FBI agents, not about Trump/Russia, but about himself. * Flynn -- not convicted of anything, and the longer it's been dragged out the more innocent he's become. Oh, and Kilimnik was an Obama State Department source... It's hilarious how unhinged someone gets when their cognitive dissonance gets disturbed with fact. When it's shown that they've believed in pure fiction for three years, and built a political identity around it, it's painful to discover you've been had. That's how you get responses like the above, without a hint of irony 1
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 And note -- all this time, Bull is still running from this very reasonable, and well sourced, discussion on the topic. He won't have an honest conversation about it, because that would risk him having to admit he's wrong, and has been wrong for years. Instead, he wants to throw bombs and memes and hope that if he does enough of that, this post will go away. But it won't, Bull. Until you engage with it honestly. On 4/1/2020 at 9:56 AM, Deranged Rhino said: @BullBuchanan -- Time for you to show the whole board that you have this whole scandal down, and weren't fooled at all into believing a narrative concocted by the USIC, DNC, and 44's White House. We can do this with civility and we both might end up learning a thing or two -- that is if you got the stones for it. And I hope you do. You contend that the Russians and their proxies interfered in the 2016 election more than the USIC and previous administration. (please correct that if it's inaccurate). I contend that the USIC and its proxies (including 44's administration, the establishment media, and the DNC/HRC campaigns) interfered FAR more, with a more disastrous impact on the country and our civil discourse. That is not to say I'm arguing Russia did nothing, they did, just that what they did was comical (and ineffective) compared to what the USIC did. Only one of these positions can be correct. So let's dig in and see which one holds more merit based on evidence and fact, not opinion and supposition. We'll start with a few simple premises upon which I think we both can agree -- correct any you disagree with: 1)The United States Government, especially Langley, has a long history of meddling in the elections of sovereign powers. 2) Anything the Russian intelligence services can do, like meddle in an election, the US intelligence community can do with better funding/training/and efficiency. Those are two undeniable facts, backed by history, budgets, and their success rates. The major thrust of the Russian operation into the 2016 election, per three congressional studies and Mueller's own report, was to purchase around $100k of ad buys on Facebook. These ads largely were (sloppy) memes designed to cause division and chaos rather than favoring one party over the other. Ads like these: Reveal hidden contents (spoiler tag added for space purposes) These ads were but a drop in the bucket compared to the almost $1 billion dollar campaign run by the Clinton machine, and an almost equally extravagant Trump campaign. Yet, we are to believe that $100k of (not even targeted) ad buys somehow drowned out close to a billion dollars worth of advertising from the DNC or GOP? To put this in perspective, Bloomberg just ran an all out assault on the digital media space, dropping close to a quarter of a billion dollars in less than three months into the marketplace and he wound up winning... American Samoa. How did Bloomberg's money do so much less than the Russian 100k? To underline this point even further, to show how ineffective the Russian campaign was, the Mueller prosecution team was just forced to drop its case against the only Russians Mueller indicted in his two year probe due to faulty evidence and specious legal arguments. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/politics/concord-case-russian-interference.html The only way you could argue that Russia interfered/meddled in the election more than our own government is if you were to take the position that they did more than just Facebook ads -- something not even Mueller, Congress, or the FBI ever could prove after several years. If you have something more they did, please share. If not -- then you have to see that your position is already weaker than you'd like to admit. Of course, proving Russia was ineffective in their attempts to interfere is only half the discussion. The other half lies in proving that the USIC and its proxies interfered in a more dastardly and demonstrable fashion. And I can do that, with reams of evidence to back it up. But it's best to start slow, and start at the very beginning of this whole scandal. With a primary source document I'm willing to bet you've never seen or even heard about: This is a declassified FISC Opinion memo from Justice Collyer. It was declassified in April of 2017 by DNI Coats, and was originally compiled in the fall of 2016 at the height of the campaign. It's a 99 page document I recommend reading in full, but for the sake of expediency and this conversation, pages 82-84 of the document itself cut to the heart of the matter and will, in time, show you where the whole "Russia narrative" actually began. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf This document discusses an audit of the FISC and multiple illegal intrusions into the 702 program from within the FBI and DOJ for at least four years prior to 2016. These intrusions and abuses of the 702 program paint a picture of gross criminal conduct which was routinely carried out by the highest levels of the FBI and DOJ under 44. This matter came to the FISC's attention in September of 2016 when then head of NSA, Admiral Rogers (an Obama appointee), noticed an alarming rise in the number of illegal 702 queries being conducted by private contractors (not FBI or DOJ personnel) without the proper warrant or oversight. (Page 82): "NSA examined all queries using identifiers for 'U.S. persons targeted pursuant to Sections 704 and 705(b) of FISA using the [REDACTED/Likely X-Keyscore] tool in [REDACTED]... from November 1, 2015 to May 1, 2016." Id. at 2-3 (footnote omitted). Based on that examination, "NSA estimates that approximately eighty-five percent of those queries, representing [REDACTED] queries conducted by approximately [REDACTED] targeted offices, were not compliant with the applicable minimization procedures." Id. at 3. Many of these non-compliant queries involved the use of the same identifiers over different date ranges. Id. Even so, a non-compliance rate of 85% raises substantial questions about the propriety of using of [REDACTED / likely X-Keyscore] to query FISA data. While the government reports that it is unable to provide a reliable estimate of the number of non-compliant queries since 2012, id., there is no apparent reason to believe the November 2015-April 2016 period coincided with an unusually high error rate." (Emphasis my own) In order to understand what this document is discussing, it's important to understand how the FISC works, what the 702 program is, and what powers the DOJ NSD and FBI CID hold in their respective agencies. It's also important to know what a Title I FISA warrant is, how it works, and how they're granted. Once you do understand these elements (and I'm happy to walk you through any of them that you may have questions about), this document becomes quite chilling. It's laying out how there were ROUTINE abuses in the most invasive, and powerful, surveillance tools within the USIC by unauthorized private contractors working for the FBI and DOJ -- so much so that 85 percent of the searches were deemed illegal by the FISC and NSA both. This is a MAJOR scandal for the Obama administration, breaking in the early spring (April) of 2016 when Rogers first told the DOJ/FBI that the NSA was doing an audit on their 702 queries. The type of scandal that would bring down his entire legacy if it were to come out, and detonate much of the party's leadership. Even bigger, there's every reason to believe these kinds of abuses were happening in 43's administration as well, meaning this scandal was a threat to not only Obama, but the entire establishment GOP and DNC as well. It quite literally was an existential crisis for the most powerful politicians and gov't employees in the country. And you, likely, never heard boo about it. The information and data contained within the 702 program, and available through tools like X-Keyscore, is the mother lode if one were ever inclined to apply pressure or to blackmail a political rival (or private citizen). Obama ran on a platform of reducing the security state, of stopping these sorts of abuses of our 4th amendment rights. I know this because it's why I voted for him twice. Yet, here is Admiral Rogers, in the spring of 2016, exposing that (once again) the Obama administration's word meant dick. They weren't only expanding the surveillance state (doubling its size in 8 years), they were routinely running illegal searches on private citizens for the purposes of blackmail and extortion. How it works is easy -- need to make sure a vote goes your way, or an appeals judge rules in your favor? Check his digital footprint, find his secrets, and exploit them to get him to comply with your wishes. This was so routine it was almost SOP from 2012-2016 at least. Admiral Rogers not only knew this, and had the evidence with this audit -- he was demanding the DOJ and FBI leadership (Comey, McCabe, and others) to explain all their illegal searches to the FISC. That put these powerful people in serious legal peril. These were egregious violations of the constitution and their oaths of office. Decades in prison awaited them all if they weren't able to adequately explain their illegal activity. And they knew they couldn't explain it without admitting to further crimes. They were, quite literally, fukkked. A massive scandal which threatened to take out all of establishment DC in one massive media explosion was hanging over their heads like the sword of Damocles. At the time this was breaking, early spring of 2016 (March/April), there was ZERO talk in the media about Trump/Russia. It was not a story. It wasn't even a blip on the radar. In fact, the only discussions about Russia at the time were coming from the Clinton campaign while discussing her platform on what to do in Syria. She was taking the position (with her neoliberal handlers) to implement No Fly zones in Syria. Which sounds great, until you understand that in order to enforce those No-Fly zones would require US pilots to drop bombs on Russian AA sites in the region and kill Russian troops along the way. In other words, the only Russia news peculating was HRC's desire to start a war against them over Syria. There was no talk of Trump and Putin. There was no dossier. There was nothing... just a massive scandal uncovered by Obama's own NSA director which threatened to not only expose the Obama administration for unparalleled civil liberty abuses, but threatened to take down Clinton and the Bushes in the crossfire. A change in the narrative was needed. That's why, just 24 hours after Rogers alerted the DOJ and FBI to his audit, President Obama met alone in the Oval Office with Mary Jacoby -- the wife of Glenn Simpson. Within 72 hours of that meeting, the DNC had hired Simpson's oppo-research shop, Fusion GPS, who then went and hired Christopher Steele. All within days of Roger's move. This isn't speculation, it's proven with White House visitor logs. ... Then, within about a month, the Russia narrative began to gestate. This is the starting point to a much larger conversation. It's not opinion. It's backed by years of research, first hand interviews, and primary source material. On 4/1/2020 at 11:04 AM, Deranged Rhino said: Real time footage of @BullBuchanan running from the above discussion... 1 1
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 More hits on Brennan.... it's a laser pointer as to where Durham is headed. ************** Comey never learns: 1 4
Hedge Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 Sorry, @BillStime. Catching up on this thread had you being a shoo in winner for the stupidest things posted today. You just couldn't stay in that saddle though, and @BullBuchanan raced on by. It's not your fault, BB really is just that good at being obtuse, as he continually proves. It's a testament to @Deranged Rhino that he responds to your drivel (but I am glad that he does, because it's a good reminder for anyone who happens by). He has laboriously laid out fact after fact over years about SpyGate (because it's not RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! at all). You could have read through this thread and been ahead of the curve, but instead you two chuckleheads just look like fools. It's scary that your vote counts the same as everyone else. I'm looking forward to your melt downs as the situation continues to unfold. 2 1 3
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: More hits on Brennan.... it's a laser pointer as to where Durham is headed. ************** Comey never learns: Gee, I don't know - could it have anything to do with the fact that the Trump campaign met with Russian operatives 272 times?
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, BillStime said: Gee, I don't know - could it have anything to do with the fact that the Trump campaign met with Russian operatives 272 times? List them, please. Go. (just give me the top 10)
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hedge said: Sorry, @BillStime. Catching up on this thread had you being a shoo in winner for the stupidest things posted today. You just couldn't stay in that saddle though, and @BullBuchanan raced on by. It's not your fault, BB really is just that good at being obtuse, as he continually proves. It's a testament to @Deranged Rhino that he responds to your drivel (but I am glad that he does, because it's a good reminder for anyone who happens by). He has laboriously laid out fact after fact over years about SpyGate (because it's not RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! at all). You could have read through this thread and been ahead of the curve, but instead you two chuckleheads just look like fools. It's scary that your vote counts the same as everyone else. I'm looking forward to your melt downs as the situation continues to unfold. It doesn't surprise me that likeminded people get off with each other... it's just not my cup of tea. Considering your sources - I wouldn't be surprised if you thought Sandy Hook is a hoax and well, this never happened:
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 ☝️ Tactic of a weak mind: can't argue the topic at hand, shift the topic to the absurd. 2
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: ☝️ Tactic of a weak mind: can't argue the topic at hand, shift the topic to the absurd. I'm sorry, I can't keep up with all your handles. You HAVE so many.
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, BillStime said: I'm sorry, I can't keep up with all your handles. You HAVE so many. I have one. And you still haven't answered the direct question asked of you: 19 minutes ago, BillStime said: Gee, I don't know - could it have anything to do with the fact that the Trump campaign met with Russian operatives 272 times? 18 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: List them, please. Go. (just give me the top 10) Why can't you list them? Is it because... you don't know them?
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I have one. And you still haven't answered the direct question asked of you: Why can't you list them? Is it because... you don't know them? You should go do your own research and broaden your sources beyond Trump friendly authors and conspirators. I've given you more than enough information to go on...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 1 minute ago, BillStime said: You should go do your own research and broaden your sources beyond Trump friendly authors and conspirators. I've given you more than enough information to go on... I've done four years of research, including traveling multiple times to DC, London (and more) to interview people with first hand knowledge. You made a statement and were asked to back it up. That's not asking you to do research for me, it's asking you to show your work. Yet you won't. Why? Could it be because you don't know this subject as well as you claim? Again, there's ZERO shame in admitting you got this story wrong. Millions did, because it was the product of an extensive information/disinformation campaign waged by the most sophisticated and omnipresent intelligence apparatus in human history. Where there is shame to be found is in clinging to a fake narrative while refusing to examine new evidence for yourself. Back up what you said. It's PPP 101. 1 1
GG Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, BillStime said: See, that's where you're wrong. I don't give two schitts about the Trump Tower meeting. I want you to tell me HOW MANY MEETINGS occurred. You apparently have all the right sources - and answers - and spend all day on TwoBillsDrive defending Trump - so let's hear it - how many meetings? You need to define operative first. 1
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I have one. And you still haven't answered the direct question asked of you: Why can't you list them? Is it because... you don't know them? 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I've done four years of research, including traveling multiple times to DC, London (and more) to interview people with first hand knowledge. You made a statement and were asked to back it up. That's not asking you to do research for me, it's asking you to show your work. Yet you won't. Why? Could it be because you don't know this subject as well as you claim? Again, there's ZERO shame in admitting you got this story wrong. Millions did, because it was the product of an extensive information/disinformation campaign waged by the most sophisticated and omnipresent intelligence apparatus in human history. Where there is shame to be found is in clinging to a fake narrative while refusing to examine new evidence for yourself. Back up what you said. It's PPP 101. And what are you doing with this research? You couldn't possibly be just sharing it here at TwoBillsDrive, right? I mean, when I google - I'm not finding much on you - so who are you hiding behind? And - you lost your first battle with me - that's why I will forever take everything you say with a grain of salt.
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, BillStime said: And what are you doing with this research? You couldn't possibly be just sharing it here at TwoBillsDrive, right? I mean, when I google - I'm not finding much on you - so who are you hiding behind? I'm sharing information with my fellow citizens, that's what I've been doing with this research for all that time. It started as a book (my day job), then when it became decidedly dangerous for me to continue in the solitary manner I was, I began passing off my research to friends/coworkers/journalists who had bigger platforms. All of which has been shared on here and elsewhere, many, many times. My interest has always been in truth, not a partisan outcome. I love my country, and the people in it, and believe it's my duty as a citizen to share the truth as best I can discern it. So I'm not hiding at all. It's all been discussed, in multiple threads -- including this one. Your turn. Show your work. Define what you consider to be an "operative", then give me your top 10 list of meetings which occurred. 3 3
Hedge Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 New sock puppet account, browsing PPP, soon to join the fray: 6
3rdnlng Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: Right, big fake story that's been going on for years with piles and piles of redacted evidence and dozens of criminal convictions with nearly ever member of the campaign's staff in jail as a result. Trump was the only clean one. I bet you believe in Benghazi, though. You are out of your mind. That is not true. There was a couple of process crimes that had nothing to do with Trump's campaign and we've since found out that those were set up. 1
3rdnlng Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, BillStime said: It doesn't surprise me that likeminded people get off with each other... it's just not my cup of tea. Considering your sources - I wouldn't be surprised if you thought Sandy Hook is a hoax and well, this never happened: This isn't the first time you posted "wide right" but you did it under another screen name then. Once an asswhole, always an asswhole. 3
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