BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: The report has been out for all to read since January 2017. You judge a source by the place they work. I judge a source based on their track record of accuracy. One is smart, the other is real dumb. There was nothing new in the report, you're right - but the Senate Committee just reconfirmed the findings TODAY. And STFU - there is a WHOLE THREAD on CNN on this site with your comments ALL over it - you CLEARLY judge a SOURCE by the place they work.
B-Man Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 Mollie Ziegler Hemingway is an American author, columnist and political commentator. She is a senior editor at the online magazine The Federalist and a contributor for Fox News. We all wish we had the intelligence and success as Ms. Hemingway. But she contributes to Fox News.............so the knee-jerk reactions of the children here (emphasis on jerk) is to discredit her.......? BACK TO THE THREAD...... Schiff Demanded the DNI Not Share Evidence From HIC’s Russia Investigation With White House . . 2 1
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Give an example on the Trump/Russia matter. Go. How many meetings did the Trump campaign have with Russian linked operatives? 1
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BillStime said: There was nothing new in the report, you're right - but the Senate Committee just reconfirmed the findings TODAY. You're wrong. And exposing that you didn't read the report itself, only the (incorrect) headlines. Note the threads above going through the actual document (which you dismissed as opinion). It shows where you're wrong. Trump/Russia was never real. The Senate confirms this. 7 minutes ago, BillStime said: How many meetings did the Trump campaign have with Russian linked operatives? That wasn't something Mollie covered and got wrong. She covered it and got it right. The real question to ask is not how many meetings Team Trump had with "Russian linked operatives" -- but how many of those meetings were set up by the DNC/Obama White House/USIC? The answer, when you look: EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. That's a problem for the narrative that they've never been able to deny. Edited April 21, 2020 by Deranged Rhino
Foxx Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, BillStime said: Do you think John got to see the redacted parts? Oh, no? So, we all have to rely on the unredacted parts FROM THE ACTUAL REPORT instead of someone's opinion? (I know that's not how you work, Raging Rhino - you can only look at tRump through your rosy lens.)... you really ought to think about quitting while you're behind here. i mean.... you do realize that DR, Molly, John Huber and all the rest were way out in front of the redactions of Horowitz's report, right? not to mention just about every aspect these last 4 years. you understand that they all put the dots together and have been proven to be right, right? swallow that pride and accept that yes, they were right and from all appearances, they are going to be right this time as well. but... i know... we got Trump this time! Edited April 21, 2020 by Foxx 3 2
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: You're wrong. And exposing that you didn't read the report itself, only the (incorrect) headlines. Note the threads above going through the actual document (which you dismissed as opinion). It shows where you're wrong. Trump/Russia was never real. The Senate confirms this. That wasn't something Mollie covered and got wrong. She covered it and got it right (maybe because who post here shared information with her from REAL good sources). The real question to ask is not how many meetings Team Trump had with "Russian linked operatives" -- but how many of those meetings were set up by the DNC/Obama White House/USIC? The answer, when you look: EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. That's a problem for the narrative that they've never been able to deny. 100% Raging Rhino:
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, BillStime said: 100% Raging Rhino: So, rather than dispute the facts I laid out, you run away with an insult. Why? Because you've been badly lied to about this topic. For years. So much so you can't even fathom how wrong your baseline opinion on this issue is. 1
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Foxx said: you really ought to think about quitting while you're behind here. i mean.... you do realize that DR, Molly, John Huber and all the rest were way out in front of the redactions of Horowitz's report, right? not to mention just about every aspect these last 4 years. you understand that they all put the dots together and have been proven to be right, right? swallow that pride and accept that yes, they were right and from all appearances, they are going to be right this time as well. but... i know... we got Trump this time! Sorry, I don't live my life on the fringe like you... keep spinning bro... and you're dreaming if you don't think the Russia narrative will go away - no matter how hard you and the Raging Rhino try... this will continue to drip and the truth will come out. 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: So, rather than dispute the facts I laid out, you run away with an insult. Why? Because you've been badly lied to about this topic. For years. So much so you can't even fathom how wrong your baseline opinion on this issue is. You didn't dispute anything. I asked how many meetings Trump's campaigns had with Russian operatives. You responded by saying those meetings were arranged by the DNC. OH - OK!
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, BillStime said: You didn't dispute anything. I asked how many meetings Trump's campaigns had with Russian operatives. You responded by saying those meetings were arranged by the DNC. OH - OK! That is disputing your charge. And guess what, they were and I can (and have) proven that with evidence. Question: Who did Don Jr. meet with in the now infamous Trump Tower meeting? Do you remember her name? 1
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: That is disputing your charge. And guess what, they were and I can (and have) proven that with evidence. Question: Who did Don Jr. meet with in the now infamous Trump Tower meeting? Do you remember her name? Oh, ok - I'll just take your word for it - and rely on your fringe sources. EVERYBODY - the RAGING RHINO HAS SPOKEN.
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BillStime said: Oh, ok - I'll just take your word for it - and rely on your fringe sources. EVERYBODY - the RAGING RHINO HAS SPOKEN. I'm not asking you, or anyone, to take my word for it. Unlike you, I can back this all up with primary source information you can then vet for yourself. And it's funny you're not answering the question. Clearly you must remember the details of the Trump Tower meeting since you're SO convinced it wasn't a set up, right? Heck, you could even Google her name to find out... but rather than do the bare minimum of work for yourself, you cut and run. Why? Because you're scared you'll learn something that challenges your position. Edited April 21, 2020 by Deranged Rhino 1
Foxx Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, BillStime said: Sorry, I don't live my life on the fringe like you... keep spinning bro... and you're dreaming if you don't think the Russia narrative will go away - no matter how hard you and the Raging Rhino try... this will continue to drip and the truth will come out. ... no, you swallow anything the main stream propagandists sell you, hook, line and sinker. you seem like an intelligent guy, can you not think for yourself and dispell all of that NLP that has been inflicted upon you? i suggest you do it now before your whole paradigm comes crashing down around you and you end up drooling out in the street. the research is not hard. It is all contained within this thread and even if you disagree with many takes, all the information is there of what went on, just use your discernment skills and look past any hype that you perceive. Edited April 21, 2020 by Foxx 2
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 Correct... which should tell you all you need to know about the motivations of the FBI leadership in that moment. They didn't want to stand beside the dossier they knew (BACK IN JANUARY OF 2017) to be bunk, but they DID want to use it as part of their application to the FISC. Not once, not twice, not three times, but FOUR times. 4
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 56 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Give an example on the Trump/Russia matter. Go. Note: He never did (because he can't).
BillStime Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Note: He never did (because he can't). How many meetings did the Trump campaign have with Russian operatives?
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, BillStime said: How many meetings did the Trump campaign have with Russian operatives? I know the answer. So why don't you tell me. List the meetings they had, and the parties involved, including their ties to Russian intelligence. Go!
BullBuchanan Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, B-Man said: Mollie Ziegler Hemingway is an American author, columnist and political commentator. She is a senior editor at the online magazine The Federalist and a contributor for Fox News. We all wish we had the intelligence and success as Ms. Hemingway. But she contributes to Fox News.............so the knee-jerk reactions of the children here (emphasis on jerk) is to discredit her.......? BACK TO THE THREAD...... Schiff Demanded the DNI Not Share Evidence From HIC’s Russia Investigation With White House . . The Federalist is the Jordan Peterson of Alt-right news. Someone should put them into a coma too. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: The Federalist is the Jordan Peterson of Alt-right news. Someone should put them into a coma too. I'm surprised you had the (small) balls to show back up in a thread you've been hiding from for over two weeks. Just to remind you of what you're running from: On 4/1/2020 at 9:56 AM, Deranged Rhino said: @BullBuchanan -- Time for you to show the whole board that you have this whole scandal down, and weren't fooled at all into believing a narrative concocted by the USIC, DNC, and 44's White House. We can do this with civility and we both might end up learning a thing or two -- that is if you got the stones for it. And I hope you do. You contend that the Russians and their proxies interfered in the 2016 election more than the USIC and previous administration. (please correct that if it's inaccurate). I contend that the USIC and its proxies (including 44's administration, the establishment media, and the DNC/HRC campaigns) interfered FAR more, with a more disastrous impact on the country and our civil discourse. That is not to say I'm arguing Russia did nothing, they did, just that what they did was comical (and ineffective) compared to what the USIC did. Only one of these positions can be correct. So let's dig in and see which one holds more merit based on evidence and fact, not opinion and supposition. We'll start with a few simple premises upon which I think we both can agree -- correct any you disagree with: 1)The United States Government, especially Langley, has a long history of meddling in the elections of sovereign powers. 2) Anything the Russian intelligence services can do, like meddle in an election, the US intelligence community can do with better funding/training/and efficiency. Those are two undeniable facts, backed by history, budgets, and their success rates. The major thrust of the Russian operation into the 2016 election, per three congressional studies and Mueller's own report, was to purchase around $100k of ad buys on Facebook. These ads largely were (sloppy) memes designed to cause division and chaos rather than favoring one party over the other. Ads like these: Reveal hidden contents (spoiler tag added for space purposes) These ads were but a drop in the bucket compared to the almost $1 billion dollar campaign run by the Clinton machine, and an almost equally extravagant Trump campaign. Yet, we are to believe that $100k of (not even targeted) ad buys somehow drowned out close to a billion dollars worth of advertising from the DNC or GOP? To put this in perspective, Bloomberg just ran an all out assault on the digital media space, dropping close to a quarter of a billion dollars in less than three months into the marketplace and he wound up winning... American Samoa. How did Bloomberg's money do so much less than the Russian 100k? To underline this point even further, to show how ineffective the Russian campaign was, the Mueller prosecution team was just forced to drop its case against the only Russians Mueller indicted in his two year probe due to faulty evidence and specious legal arguments. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/politics/concord-case-russian-interference.html The only way you could argue that Russia interfered/meddled in the election more than our own government is if you were to take the position that they did more than just Facebook ads -- something not even Mueller, Congress, or the FBI ever could prove after several years. If you have something more they did, please share. If not -- then you have to see that your position is already weaker than you'd like to admit. Of course, proving Russia was ineffective in their attempts to interfere is only half the discussion. The other half lies in proving that the USIC and its proxies interfered in a more dastardly and demonstrable fashion. And I can do that, with reams of evidence to back it up. But it's best to start slow, and start at the very beginning of this whole scandal. With a primary source document I'm willing to bet you've never seen or even heard about: This is a declassified FISC Opinion memo from Justice Collyer. It was declassified in April of 2017 by DNI Coats, and was originally compiled in the fall of 2016 at the height of the campaign. It's a 99 page document I recommend reading in full, but for the sake of expediency and this conversation, pages 82-84 of the document itself cut to the heart of the matter and will, in time, show you where the whole "Russia narrative" actually began. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf This document discusses an audit of the FISC and multiple illegal intrusions into the 702 program from within the FBI and DOJ for at least four years prior to 2016. These intrusions and abuses of the 702 program paint a picture of gross criminal conduct which was routinely carried out by the highest levels of the FBI and DOJ under 44. This matter came to the FISC's attention in September of 2016 when then head of NSA, Admiral Rogers (an Obama appointee), noticed an alarming rise in the number of illegal 702 queries being conducted by private contractors (not FBI or DOJ personnel) without the proper warrant or oversight. (Page 82): "NSA examined all queries using identifiers for 'U.S. persons targeted pursuant to Sections 704 and 705(b) of FISA using the [REDACTED/Likely X-Keyscore] tool in [REDACTED]... from November 1, 2015 to May 1, 2016." Id. at 2-3 (footnote omitted). Based on that examination, "NSA estimates that approximately eighty-five percent of those queries, representing [REDACTED] queries conducted by approximately [REDACTED] targeted offices, were not compliant with the applicable minimization procedures." Id. at 3. Many of these non-compliant queries involved the use of the same identifiers over different date ranges. Id. Even so, a non-compliance rate of 85% raises substantial questions about the propriety of using of [REDACTED / likely X-Keyscore] to query FISA data. While the government reports that it is unable to provide a reliable estimate of the number of non-compliant queries since 2012, id., there is no apparent reason to believe the November 2015-April 2016 period coincided with an unusually high error rate." (Emphasis my own) In order to understand what this document is discussing, it's important to understand how the FISC works, what the 702 program is, and what powers the DOJ NSD and FBI CID hold in their respective agencies. It's also important to know what a Title I FISA warrant is, how it works, and how they're granted. Once you do understand these elements (and I'm happy to walk you through any of them that you may have questions about), this document becomes quite chilling. It's laying out how there were ROUTINE abuses in the most invasive, and powerful, surveillance tools within the USIC by unauthorized private contractors working for the FBI and DOJ -- so much so that 85 percent of the searches were deemed illegal by the FISC and NSA both. This is a MAJOR scandal for the Obama administration, breaking in the early spring (April) of 2016 when Rogers first told the DOJ/FBI that the NSA was doing an audit on their 702 queries. The type of scandal that would bring down his entire legacy if it were to come out, and detonate much of the party's leadership. Even bigger, there's every reason to believe these kinds of abuses were happening in 43's administration as well, meaning this scandal was a threat to not only Obama, but the entire establishment GOP and DNC as well. It quite literally was an existential crisis for the most powerful politicians and gov't employees in the country. And you, likely, never heard boo about it. The information and data contained within the 702 program, and available through tools like X-Keyscore, is the mother lode if one were ever inclined to apply pressure or to blackmail a political rival (or private citizen). Obama ran on a platform of reducing the security state, of stopping these sorts of abuses of our 4th amendment rights. I know this because it's why I voted for him twice. Yet, here is Admiral Rogers, in the spring of 2016, exposing that (once again) the Obama administration's word meant dick. They weren't only expanding the surveillance state (doubling its size in 8 years), they were routinely running illegal searches on private citizens for the purposes of blackmail and extortion. How it works is easy -- need to make sure a vote goes your way, or an appeals judge rules in your favor? Check his digital footprint, find his secrets, and exploit them to get him to comply with your wishes. This was so routine it was almost SOP from 2012-2016 at least. Admiral Rogers not only knew this, and had the evidence with this audit -- he was demanding the DOJ and FBI leadership (Comey, McCabe, and others) to explain all their illegal searches to the FISC. That put these powerful people in serious legal peril. These were egregious violations of the constitution and their oaths of office. Decades in prison awaited them all if they weren't able to adequately explain their illegal activity. And they knew they couldn't explain it without admitting to further crimes. They were, quite literally, fukkked. A massive scandal which threatened to take out all of establishment DC in one massive media explosion was hanging over their heads like the sword of Damocles. At the time this was breaking, early spring of 2016 (March/April), there was ZERO talk in the media about Trump/Russia. It was not a story. It wasn't even a blip on the radar. In fact, the only discussions about Russia at the time were coming from the Clinton campaign while discussing her platform on what to do in Syria. She was taking the position (with her neoliberal handlers) to implement No Fly zones in Syria. Which sounds great, until you understand that in order to enforce those No-Fly zones would require US pilots to drop bombs on Russian AA sites in the region and kill Russian troops along the way. In other words, the only Russia news peculating was HRC's desire to start a war against them over Syria. There was no talk of Trump and Putin. There was no dossier. There was nothing... just a massive scandal uncovered by Obama's own NSA director which threatened to not only expose the Obama administration for unparalleled civil liberty abuses, but threatened to take down Clinton and the Bushes in the crossfire. A change in the narrative was needed. That's why, just 24 hours after Rogers alerted the DOJ and FBI to his audit, President Obama met alone in the Oval Office with Mary Jacoby -- the wife of Glenn Simpson. Within 72 hours of that meeting, the DNC had hired Simpson's oppo-research shop, Fusion GPS, who then went and hired Christopher Steele. All within days of Roger's move. This isn't speculation, it's proven with White House visitor logs. ... Then, within about a month, the Russia narrative began to gestate. This is the starting point to a much larger conversation. It's not opinion. It's backed by years of research, first hand interviews, and primary source material. 2
BullBuchanan Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 lol pWnd: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/21/us/politics/russian-interference-senate-intelligence-report.html
Deranged Rhino Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: lol pWnd: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/21/us/politics/russian-interference-senate-intelligence-report.html You're three hours behind the curve (again). And -- not surprisingly -- backing the wrong horse.
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