Albwan Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Where should I start: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2018/06/04/451570/confronting-cost-trumps-corruption-american-families/ "...These actions, and many more, send a clear signal: In the Trump administration, corruption is not just accepted, it is encouraged. Trump has created a culture of corruption, where it’s expected that those with public power will wield it for private gain. And this culture has, in turn, attracted those who are themselves corrupt and seeking to profit from this opportunity. This culture of corruption has wide-ranging effects. When the interests of the politically connected are put first, it’s at the expense of people without the means to pay for lobbyists in Washington. When the interests of foreign governments are put first, it’s at the expense of America’s safety. And when the priorities of elected leaders are shaped only by those with money or power, then the needs of the American people remain unmet. A culture of corruption also weakens society as a whole. It leads to a perverse set of incentives, where those who are corrupt advance, while those who are honest are forced out of positions of power. It incentivizes incompetence among public officials because people are judged not by their ability to do their job, but rather on their ability to conceal or participate in unethical, and even illegal, behavior. Moreover, it weakens the societal trust that is the cornerstone of a robust economy and civil society...." Lol..looking at the 'Russia' links section tells anyone what they need to know about that site. also...'Posted on June 4, 2018, 9:33 am' by 3 bloggers..c'mon man
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 Just now, Albwan said: Lol..looking at the 'Russia' links section tells anyone what they need to know about that site. also...'Posted on June 4, 2018, 9:33 am' by 3 bloggers..c'mon man Yeah... So what was quoted above is false? Glean the important, fundamental stuff. Ethics in Private Sector is vastly different from ethics in Public Sector. There in lies the issue. I get most people don't understand the two. They simply aren't the same. Doing something, anything as long as it's NOT against the law is vastly different to doing only what the law says you can do. Gotta admit... Those ethics are lost on this administration. What I quoted holds true. Knock the site. Yet, how would you change what I quoted?
DC Tom Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 6 hours ago, Foxx said: https://twitter.com/LisaMei62/status/1109287444657131522 Nunes is an idiot for not learning over the past two years not to overstate your position. 4 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: By Congress? Or will he just ignore that? He doesn't work for Congress.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: From a purely POLITICAL standpoint, I think it would be a mistake for R's to go down that rabbit hole. Fascinated to hear why.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 Enjoy the show. 23 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: From a purely POLITICAL standpoint, I think it would be a mistake for R's to go down that rabbit hole. It's the only way to assure this kind of overreach and abuse never happens again. If they are allowed to skate, then it'll happen again. And next time it'll be a weaker president who won't be able to withstand the coup. Doling out justice on this matter is the only way to assure the continuation of the republic imo. 3
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, DC Tom said: He doesn't work for Congress. Of course.
LSHMEAB Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Enjoy the show. It's the only way to assure this kind of overreach and abuse never happens again. If they are allowed to skate, then it'll happen again. And next time it'll be a weaker president who won't be able to withstand the coup. Doling out justice on this matter is the only way to assure the continuation of the republic imo. So who are the R's going to target and what is the crime? Clinton? Comey? Strzok? McCabe? On the surface, that is probably not a good look. I see about as much chance of any such investigation bearing fruit as the one Mueller just concluded. I will say this; if they embark on such a quest for justice and fail, they will have repeated the same mistake as the left. So they better be damn sure they've got something substantial. Again, I'm speaking only from a political perspective. I've read much of what's been written regarding the bad actors at Main Justice and don't see a smoking gun. JMO. 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: Enjoy the show. Soooo... Cenk is asking us to believe that the President conducting foreign policy is illegal? Edited March 23, 2019 by TakeYouToTasker 4
Deranged Rhino Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 Just now, LSHMEAB said: So who are the R's going to target and what is the crime? Clinton? Comey? Strzok? McCabe? On the surface, that is probably not a good look. I see about as much chance of any such investigation bearing fruit as the one Mueller just concluded. I will say this; if they embark on such a quest for justice and fail, they will have repeated the same mistake as the left. So they better be damn sure they've got something substantial. Again, I'm speaking only from a political perspective. I've read much of what's been written regarding the bad actors at Main Justice and don't see a smoking gun. JMO. The crimes will be FISA abuse, FARA violations, perjury, and criminal felony leaks. There won't be a special counsel. The investigation into those crimes has been ongoing since 2017 by the DOJ OIG Horowitz, Jeff Sessions/John Huber - the FISA report is done and on deck. The declassification of the FISA is going to hit within the next couple weeks. That will open the spigot. With the evidence already available in open source, we know they have enough to charge Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Simpson, Power, Schiff, Warner, plus a slew of high ranking DOJ/FBI officials. This has been in motion for 2 years. 2 1
LSHMEAB Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: The crimes will be FISA abuse, FARA violations, perjury, and criminal felony leaks. There won't be a special counsel. The investigation into those crimes has been ongoing since 2017 by the DOJ OIG Horowitz, Jeff Sessions/John Huber - the FISA report is done and on deck. The declassification of the FISA is going to hit within the next couple weeks. That will open the spigot. With the evidence already available in open source, we know they have enough to charge Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Simpson, Power, Schiff, Warner, plus a slew of high ranking DOJ/FBI officials. This has been in motion for 2 years. If all that comes to fruition, then so be it. I was speaking more of a Barr lead Special Counsel investigating the investigators who appear to have cleared Trump. THAT would not be a good luck. We'll see what happens over the next couple weeks, but I've been watching Dem overreach for two years. The chickens are now coming home to roost. If I were Trump/an R member of the oversight committee, I would be reluctant to "potentially" make the same political miscalculation. At the end of the day, Trump played the left and can ride that wave. We shall see. 1
BillsFanNC Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Enjoy the show. He did it with Putin's time machine! 2
Deranged Rhino Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: If all that comes to fruition, then so be it. I was speaking more of a Barr lead Special Counsel investigating the investigators who appear to have cleared Trump. THAT would not be a good luck. I completely agree a second special counsel would be a mistake. No one has the patience or energy for 2 more years of this. Which is why the plan has always been to launch simultaneous investigations through the OIG and DOJ. Horowitz has 400+ attorneys working for him on just this issue for the past 2 years. Huber out of Utah, whom gets the referrals fed to him by the OIG has over 20 attorneys working and two grand juries impaneled outside of DC. Sessions, prior to leaving, began a criminal leaking department which is tied to Huber as well and already netted a few indictments (Senate staffer James Wolf for example). The next steps will be: 1) The declassification of the Page FISA warrant. 2) Horowitz's submission of the FISA abuse report. *The order of the above could flip 3) The reveal of whatever Huber's investigation has found in relation to FISA and criminal leaking. 6 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: We'll see what happens over the next couple weeks, but I've been watching Dem overreach for two years. The chickens are now coming home to roost. Yup, though I'd add a qualified to that. It wasn't just the DNC who overreached. It was the uniparty establishment. Both sides of the aisle are dirty on this one. (Why did Paul Ryan not run again? It wasn't to spend more time with his family). 7 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: If I were Trump/an R member of the oversight committee, I would be reluctant to "potentially" make the same political miscalculation. At the end of the day, Trump played the left and can ride that wave. We shall see. The spin will be that Trump's reaction will be political persecution. And the same media members who lied for two plus years about Russian collusion/conspiracy, will push that line HARD. But it's not reality. Reality is that politics aside, justice must be dealt out on this issue otherwise it'll happen again. Trump scored a win, yes. But he doesn't want to win this battle, he wants to win the war against the establishment on both sides of the aisle. That's what this has been about, destroying that shadow government and returning power to the people. Can't do that without charging people for the coup imo. 3 2
snafu Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Yeah... So what was quoted above is false? Glean the important, fundamental stuff. Ethics in Private Sector is vastly different from ethics in Public Sector. There in lies the issue. I get most people don't understand the two. They simply aren't the same. Doing something, anything as long as it's NOT against the law is vastly different to doing only what the law says you can do. Gotta admit... Those ethics are lost on this administration. What I quoted holds true. Knock the site. Yet, how would you change what I quoted? Maybe you should call your Congressional Representative. I’m sure they can add this “news” article to their existing “culture of corruption” investigation. Or, wait, have they started that inquiry yet? Does what you cited rise to (your words) “most corrupt POTUS of modern times”? Edited March 23, 2019 by snafu 1 1
LSHMEAB Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I completely agree a second special counsel would be a mistake. No one has the patience or energy for 2 more years of this. Which is why the plan has always been to launch simultaneous investigations through the OIG and DOJ. Horowitz has 400+ attorneys working for him on just this issue for the past 2 years. Huber out of Utah, whom gets the referrals fed to him by the OIG has over 20 attorneys working and two grand juries impaneled outside of DC. Sessions, prior to leaving, began a criminal leaking department which is tied to Huber as well and already netted a few indictments (Senate staffer James Wolf for example). Horowitz in an interesting figure. Caught hell for his "audaciousness" in holding McCabe accountable. I make no bones about the fact that I'm a liberal(not of the classical variety), but I genuinely respect the breadth of information I find on this forum. Far more substantive than the nonsensical cat fights I encounter on the Twittersphere. 5 2
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Is this supposed to read: "When I'm wrong" or are you saying you're admitting you were wrong? I only ask because of the rest of what you wrote: It won't, it's closed. No more indictments coming - meaning there isn't a single indictment or charge of collusion/conspiracy or obstruction. Not one. Which is what you promised was coming "behind all that smoke" for two plus years. You were wrong. But it's not your fault. You were merely listening to what the "experts" and "authorities" were telling you without bothering to offer any skepticism. That's why you were so badly duped. What's the lesson you're going to take away from that realization? Will it be that Trump "got away with it", or will you take an honest look at the sources you trust and ask them why they knowingly pushed lie after lie after lie about a treasonous president on you? Which means nothing of course, in terms of Russian collusion/conspiracy because that meeting was in no way illegal - as I said from the moment it became news until now despite you arguing otherwise. There's nothing illegal about gathering opposition research, or meeting with people (even Russians) to hear what they have. The hype around the meeting was always a giveaway as to its validity. The liars you read and trust PUSHED this fable on you because it LOOKS bad. Even though they knew the law, and most knew HOW that meeting actually came together in the first place (with an emergency VISA given out by the Obama White House to NV). What is a crime, and what was charged (by you specifically - following the party line of course) was that Trump was an agent of Putin, actively working with the Kremlin to defraud the American people and steal an election. That's what you claimed was coming. For over a year. You were certain of it because your sources and media you read promised you that it was coming and you turned off your own critical thinking. In the end, none of that happen. Not a single charge was brought on those grounds despite two years of looking and witness harassment. The Trump Tower meeting was not illegal. It was a trap - set by the Clinton campaign and the Obama administration. They then used that trap to feed Glenn Simpson and the media fairy tales about Trump and Russians -- all to hide their own crimes. This should outrage you now in retrospect... will it though? That's the next part of this saga, and why if you don't snap out of your slumber you're going to get buried by an avalanche of what you will misconstrue as political persecution rather that the meting out of justice. And justice is coming. For the whole lot of conspirators... This is incorrect and demonstrably false, and again should lead you to reexamine everything you've read and all the sources who told you this was true. Trump made a joke on stage. The hacks(leaks) had already happened and WikiLeaks was already boasting about it. The order of events was never: Trump made that joke >>> Russians hacked. Ever. That's always been a lie. Figure out who told you that. Who reported it. Then never read them again because they're proven liars. You've been lied to so much by those in the media and public office you trust that you don't know which way is up now. That's why, even though it's been gruff at times, I've been trying to shake you out of your slumber for two years. It's not to say "I'm right and you're wrong" but it comes from a place of genuine concern. You're a good person, I enjoy your posts on this board and the main board - I do. But you're a victim of a massive propaganda machine that has programmed you. And you're not alone. There are millions of people who have been duped out there. Now that fiction they sold you is crumbling, you have to work harder than others now to dig your way out - or else you'll just get sucked back into the propaganda spin and be lost once again. But that requires you to honestly assess what you got wrong these past two years and why. So far you don't seem willing to do that. Hope that changes. This is also a falsehood that you've been sold by people who knew they were lying to you when they lied to you (Abramson for example). Cohen nor Stone were ever in touch with WikiLeaks. Their indictments make it clear they had no access - merely the illusion of access. And the call Cohen testified he overhead came a month after Wikileaks publicly boasted about having the emails. It wasn't a revelation. It wasn't inside information. It was public knowledge and they were trying to find a way to contact WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks itself is NOT an agent of Russia. They are not an arm of Russian intelligence. Assange is a lot of things but he's not a Putin cut-out. That line of thinking has always been deeply flawed and not backed by any evidence. Again, the fact you're still pushing proven disinformation isn't your fault. Not really. It's the fault of the people you listened to and trusted to tell you the truth. They lied to you. They lied to you because they think you're stupid. Prove them wrong by never listening to a word they say again. None of which have anything to do with the campaign or Trump or Russia. They have to do with tax fraud and taxi medallions which was a business he ran outside of Trump. This is a shiny object meant to distract you. Don't fall for it. Read the indictments for yourself and see. It's all there, in black and white. I promise you, all the narrative engineers (liars) and news sources you're reading will absolutely try to make the SDNY the important court now that Mueller has come up empty. Remember, the people that will push that lie (and it is a lie) are the same ones who made you believe, so fully that you came down here and boasted about it time and time again, that Mueller already had smoking gun evidence of collusion/conspiracy/obstruction. Did he? Now we know he didn't. But this time they'll be right about the SDNY right? Of course not. They're lying to you again. The SDNY will have no say on collusion/conspiracy/obstruction. That's Mueller's purview and he wouldn't pass it off to the SDNY if he had a single thing on those grounds. Stop and honestly think about this statement you just made. Because you're correct. Anyone else would have likely given into pressure and resigned by now. Off a lie. THAT'S WHAT THE COUP PLOTTERS WANTED. That was the goal. They pushed a lie in order force Trump to resign in shame so they could overturn the results of a legal election because they did not like the choice the people made. If they could do that Trump, a president you clearly do not like (as is your right), what's to stop them from doing the same in the future to a president you do like? This is where principles come in, and why none of this has ever really been about Trump for me. It's been about the rule of law. This was a coup, from the top to bottom. Whether you like Trump or hate him, if you're willing to overlook that fact just because it's Trump, then you're saying you care more about getting rid of Trump than you do preserving the rule of law and the republic. I don't think that's how you really feel or what you believe. But it's the side you're aligning with if you continue to allow them to get away with this lie. Trump was a threat to the foreign policy agenda of establishment DC. They wanted more perma-war, more mass surveillance, more control of the people - and Trump ran on the opposite of that platform. That's (partially) why they concocted this lie - and convinced you, an otherwise sane and intelligent person, that the President was working with Putin against America. They pushed this lie on you because they think you're stupid enough to buy it. And you did. Don't double down on that lie. Learn from it. Grow from it. Remember WMD and Iraq. Remember this. It's the same people, using the same media to push a lie meant to take away your rights. Sure, they cloak it in "Trump's a threat!" but they're the true threat. The people you trust. The people you read. The people you held up as being better than Trump in public office and the media all ***** you over. For a coup. What do you do next? The swamp draining is about to begin. You're not going to like what comes next. And it will likely scare you. Anger you. But it shouldn't. You should grow and become smarter from this. I urge you to go back through and take a fresh look at the evidence and information shared by me in the three main Russia threads. It's objective evidence, primary sources mainly, that allow you to make your own mind up. I'm very curious to see what you do next, @WhitewalkerInPhilly. I hope you take this moment to grow rather than regress back into the NPC conclave. I think this post is representative of what you do very well. Line by line, point by point, respectful of his position yet your perspective properly positioned. I understand your issues with BM, and your decision to respond aggressively to his posts as you do, but perhaps WiP will open his mind a bit and see what the country just went through was unnecessary and divisive. In fact, I've said it before, but let's assume j. Edgar Comey et al were truly convinced the Russians had hidden an earpiece in Trumps ear, and really felt the security of our nation was at risk and we all needed barrack and his crew to run a black op for the good of our way of life? How frigging bad are they that they could run a 2+ year sting with investigations, strong arm tactics, intimidation and come up with zeropointzerozero collusion/treason/spying indicments of the subjects targeted? How could honest and ethical members of our law enforcement agencies miss so badly that their supporters can crow about a few process crimes and some run of the mill tax cheat charges? For that crowd, if they are being honest, they were duped by the entire process, or duped into believing stories told to them by the keystone cops. Edited March 23, 2019 by leh-nerd skin-erd 4 1
Buffalo_Gal Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 ? And, it is very difficult to not agree with this. These people examined his freaking undies and came up with nada. 3 1
reddogblitz Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 14 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: It's only going to get worse for them. This is just the beginning of a complete 180. I hope you're right about all this, but I'll believe it when I see it. 1
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