GG Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It doesn't matter who he worked for when he did this. The special prosecutor found this out during their investigation, prosecuted him for these crimes, and for 8 of them a jury of his peers found him guilty. Should we now just not prosecute financial crimes? The Russian stuff is still being investigated. We will see what they find out. Today does not have to have anything to do with it. Manafort was the big get in the Russia collusion investigation, and all that was discovered that he broke laws while serving the Clinton Foundation and a Putin backed regime in Ukraine. Coincidence? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, GG said: Manafort was the big get in the Russia collusion investigation, and all that was discovered that he broke laws while serving the Clinton Foundation and a Putin backed regime in Ukraine. Coincidence? No. Not for these charges. Now he has the ones in DC to deal with. If he was or was not.part of a Russian conspiracy it will become known. Let them do their job is all I'm saying. I'll accept whatever conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: False. I have read some of your stuff. I don't find it persuasive at all. I'm not asking you to read my stuff. I've given you primary source evidence to read which you ignore. You ignore it because you've made up your mind, contrary evidence be damned, which is the opposite of having an open mind. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf The above is essential to understanding anything that happened from March 2016 on forward. It's primary source evidence from the FISC and NSA, and it's damning. But you haven't read it/won't read it. Or take the time to understand why it's relevant. Because you don't think for yourself. As you've told us from the start, you let other people tell you what to think. Like Mueller. You're waiting for him to finish his investigation, not because you're waiting for all the evidence to come in (which is noble and I am doing as well) but because you're going to agree with whatever he concludes since "he's the expert". That's lazy. And again, the opposite of thinking for yourself. 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: No. Not for these charges. Now he has the ones in DC to deal with. If he was or was not.part of a Russian conspiracy it will become known. Let them do their job is all I'm saying. I'll accept whatever conclusions. Which again, proves you aren't free thinking. You're waiting to be told what to think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Campaign finance violations are a felony? Why did Cohen say the payment was directed by the candidate (Trump) and to influence the election? Trump’s right hand man and fixer is a ?. Someone smarter than me please explain if and how this affects Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: No. Not for these charges. Now he has the ones in DC to deal with. If he was or was not.part of a Russian conspiracy it will become known. Let them do their job is all I'm saying. I'll accept whatever conclusions. DC charges have nothing to do with Russia. It's the tangent to tax fraud. If Mueller is honest, his investigation should follow the entire Manafort string during that time frame. If you were a prosecutor, and you just convicted a principal of a consulting firm of major fraud charges, and knowing that firm immediately closed up shop when the initial indictments were brought up, wouldn't your curiosity be piqued to see where else the trail leads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: I'm not asking you to read my stuff. I've given you primary source evidence to read which you ignore. You ignore it because you've made up your mind, contrary evidence be damned, which is the opposite of having an open mind. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf The above is essential to understanding anything that happened from March 2016 on forward. It's primary source evidence from the FISC and NSA, and it's damning. But you haven't read it/won't read it. Or take the time to understand why it's relevant. Because you don't think for yourself. As you've told us from the start, you let other people tell you what to think. Like Mueller. You're waiting for him to finish his investigation, not because you're waiting for all the evidence to come in (which is noble and I am doing as well) but because you're going to agree with whatever he concludes since "he's the expert". That's lazy. And again, the opposite of thinking for yourself. Tell you what. Over the next few days I'll read through this and give you my feedback. But quit trying to lecture people on whether or not they think. You're better than that. As for Mueller, everyone agreed at the beginning he was as standup a guy as could be picked to do this. Just now, GG said: DC charges have nothing to do with Russia. It's the tangent to tax fraud. If Mueller is honest, his investigation should follow the entire Manafort string during that time frame. If you were a prosecutor, and you just convicted a principal of a consulting firm of major fraud charges, and knowing that firm immediately closed up shop when the initial indictments were brought up, wouldn't your curiosity be piqued to see where else the trail leads? Sure. And I suspect they probably are. Let them do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, gatorbait said: Campaign finance violations are a felony? Why did Cohen say the payment was directed by the candidate (Trump) and to influence the election? Trump’s right hand man and fixer is a ?. Someone smarter than me please explain if and how this affects Trump. Barring some sort of unknown evidence, it doesn't impact Trump other than in the PR/Political spin world. Cohen paid the women with his own money, funneled into an LLC (or law firm, I forget) and billed Trump for the expense. Which is standard practice for lawyers. Trump paid Cohen back during the campaign, with his own money. The only way it's illegal for Trump to have done any of that is if he used campaign money to do so (meaning money donated to him, which was all small donors because he self funded his campaign). It's a charge that lacks evidence and believably (there's no reason Trump would use campaign money, he's got more than enough personal money to cover 130k) and is designed to further the narrative through headline news. 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Tell you what. Over the next few days I'll read through this and give you my feedback. But quit trying to lecture people on whether or not they think. You're better than that. I'm challenging you to break free and think for yourself. To empower yourself. Not lecturing. Sometimes it takes a jolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 What would the fallout be if Trump try’s to pardon him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, The_Dude said: What would the fallout be if Trump try’s to pardon him? He'd do it just to troll the media. But not until after he wins a second term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: Barring some sort of unknown evidence, it doesn't impact Trump other than in the PR/Political spin world. Cohen paid the women with his own money, funneled into an LLC (or law firm, I forget) and billed Trump for the expense. Which is standard practice for lawyers. Trump paid Cohen back during the campaign, with his own money. The only way it's illegal for Trump to have done any of that is if he used campaign money to do so (meaning money donated to him, which was all small donors because he self funded his campaign). It's a charge that lacks evidence and believably (there's no reason Trump would use campaign money, he's got more than enough personal money to cover 130k) and is designed to further the narrative through headline news. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they already prove it was an illegal campaign contribution? I’m really surprised that is a felony. Cohen could have taken that on the chin but he turned around and said it was Trump who directed him to do it. Does that implicate Trump in the crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: He'd do it just to troll the media. But not until after he wins a second term. Dude if Trump wins re-election that man is going to have massive loud speakers installed on Marine One and and do random flybys of DC, NYC, and LA blasting "We Are the Champions" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, gatorbait said: Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they already prove it was an illegal campaign contribution? I’m really surprised that is a felony. Cohen could have taken that on the chin but he turned around and said it was Trump who directed him to do it. Does that implicate Trump in the crime? If they did, I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: How many clients is Davis trying to protect with this statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, gatorbait said: Campaign finance violations are a felony? Forgot to comment on this part of your post... but you're right, they're not felonies. They're fines. All of my comments were to larger fraud charges which would be felonies and of which there's no evidence of occurring that I'm aware of (I'm still reading Cohen's plea - so far, the charges seem to be Cohen had a deal with the National Inquirer to give Cohen - and Trump by extension - a heads up about any negative stories about to hit the press. Which... is campaign strategy 101, not a felony that I'm aware of. Cohen was never a part of the campaign officially, but the plea tries to say he was part of the campaign because he had a campaign email address... which he never used.). Edited August 21, 2018 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: He'd do it just to troll the media. But not until after he wins a second term. 2020 is gonna be the most interesting election ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, The_Dude said: 2020 is gonna be the most interesting election ever. 2024 will probably be more interesting. And the last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Forgot to comment on this part of your post... but you're right, they're not felonies. They're fines. All of my comments were to larger fraud charges which would be felonies and of which there's no evidence of occurring that I'm aware of (I'm still reading Cohen's plea). Cohen is a soft ass B word for flipping. If the felonies are for tax and bank fraud, and the campaign finance stuff is just a misdemeanor or fine like you say then he should have kept his mouth shut. Edited August 21, 2018 by gatorbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: 2024 will probably be more interesting. And the last one. Really? So, it’s as I feared...we’re at Sulla and Marius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 After reading more about it he plead guilty to eight felonies. There’s no doubt in my mind he flipped on Trump to only spend 3-5 years in jail instead of the rest of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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