oldmanfan Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I'm jumping in here late, but here's the thing that strikes me. I'd think you're either in, or you're out. If you're in...if your opinion/expertise is valued by the new administration, it seems logical to me that a pathway should exist for continued clearance at the highest level necessary. It doesn't seem all that complicated to me. I know we can all pretend it is, or should be, but in 2018 it seems like it should be pretty straightforward. On the other hand, if you're out, and take great pains to paint yourself as an enemy of the next admin, I see no reason for the new admin to grant you access to the Congressional Fitness Center, let alone classified information. Assuming clearance can be terminated lawfully, it makes little sense to spend an inordinate amount of time wringing our hands about the lawful termination of access. In fact, responding to your earlier post, the whole thing is political, isn't it? Who has access, who gets to stay, who gets to go. I felt the same way about Trump giving Comey the boot, and let's be fair, at any given time over the preceding year Comey could have been terminated and half the country would have been thrilled, and half would not. Change the date of the termination by a couple months, and the roles are reversed. The argument that Trump needs to continue a legacy of access because his predecessor(s) chose to follow a path means nothing to me as a private citizen. To be honest, I was stunned to find that clearance was treated as part of the gold watch program for departing officials. Seems like a recipe for disaster to me. Clapper has been quoted as saying how "petty" Trumps move was. What world does he live in where he justifies his action against this admin and NOT assume he's' going to get the boot? And why "petty"? Is he a valued member of the IC as seen by Trump, or not? If not, what badge of honor comes with the clearance that makes it simply "petty" and not a "national disgrace the security of the Nation as risk"? Screw him. As I said above perhaps just make it a rule of law that all clearances are revoked upon leaving a federal job, but that clearance can be reinstated on an ad hoc basis.
row_33 Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 Watergate started with apprehended criminal acts, people of importance in jail, hush money paid to them. All known very very quickly. This ain't even 10,000,000 whim-wishes close to Watergate.
DC Tom Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: This ain't even 10,000,000 whim-wishes close to Watergate. No, it's just our Pearl Harbor/Kristallnacht/Lexington/Concord/Boston Massacre/Krakatoa/Bubonic Plague/Vandal Sacking of Rome. 1
GG Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: How do you address the folks in the campaign like Flynn who have admitted guilt? Let him complete his investigation. Then we'll know. Why has Flynn's sentencing been postponed again & again? 1
oldmanfan Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 Just now, GG said: Why has Flynn's sentencing been postponed again & again? Because they're using him to get further evidence I would suppose. Prosecutors do that all the time.
row_33 Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, DC Tom said: No, it's just our Pearl Harbor/Kristallnacht/Lexington/Concord/Boston Massacre/Krakatoa/Bubonic Plague/Vandal Sacking of Rome. LOL some people should be grateful they haven't had to suffer at all, but nope.... they want to get it good and hard.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I think it should be done on a non-partisan basis because I think our national security should be above partisan politics. Idealistic, I know. I think it goes beyond idealism to a fantasy world. Everything is political. Everything done involves posturing. Everyone in Washington seems to be playing the long game. The former director of the CIA calls the current admin treasonous, and we're to assume that's not political? And again, if Trump and his people think Brennan et al offer nothing of value to them, it's like the oldretiredfiremanfan who keeps coming around the fire station waxing about the good old days. time to move on. In this case, Brennan is a paid talking head for a media outlet, an outlet that seems to be at war with the admin. The trump admin is stating, clearly, loudly and publicly: We don't want this guy around intelligence. The End 1
row_33 Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) yes, we should do all of this without any partiality we should also stand on the front lawn and flap our arms and fly to the moon Edited July 24, 2018 by row_33
oldmanfan Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I think it goes beyond idealism to a fantasy world. Everything is political. Everything done involves posturing. Everyone in Washington seems to be playing the long game. The former director of the CIA calls the current admin treasonous, and we're to assume that's not political? And again, if Trump and his people think Brennan et al offer nothing of value to them, it's like the oldretiredfiremanfan who keeps coming around the fire station waxing about the good old days. time to move on. In this case, Brennan is a paid talking head for a media outlet, an outlet that seems to be at war with the admin. The trump admin is stating, clearly, loudly and publicly: We don't want this guy around intelligence. The End As I said my view is admittedly idealistic. But what's wrong with a little idealism? What's wrong with wanting our country to be out above political interests? Reading what I've read here my opinion is now that clearances should just be, well, cleared, when you leave with an old administration. But you should be called back on an ad hoc basis if your input would provide value. If that was the routine he politics are taken out of it.
row_33 Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 and just you all friggin wait till the GOP starts appointing Special Prosecutors for real crimes..... hell to pay for this nonsense ongoing...
TH3 Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I think it goes beyond idealism to a fantasy world. Everything is political. Everything done involves posturing. Everyone in Washington seems to be playing the long game. The former director of the CIA calls the current admin treasonous, MAYBE HE IS and we're to assume that's not political....? And again, if Trump and his people think Brennan et al offer nothing of value to them, it's like the oldretiredfiremanfan who keeps coming around the fire station waxing about the good old days. time to move on. In this case, Brennan is a paid talking head for a media outlet, an outlet that seems to be at war with the admin. The trump admin is stating, clearly, loudly and publicly: We don't want this guy around intelligence MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO SOME RESEARCH ON HOW MUCH INTELLIGENCE HE HAS ACCESS TO RECENTLY...HERE I WILL HELP YOU...IT IS ZERO. The End
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, baskin said: I'll give you a pass because you seem very emotional on this issue. I'll try to extend the courtesy I extend to others, but have to let you know if you're going to behave a teenager who feels cheated because she/he is entering puberty later than his/her peers I'm not interested in that type of exchange. If you're comfortable with Brennan's outburst, character and statements, I urge you to share that with all your friend. Then, shout it from the rooftops. Tell people at social gatherings. Look for people that are on the fence and tell them that you think that Brennan was not acting in a political fashion because MAYBE Trump is treasonous. It definitely will help. As to your other point, I looked into this as your argument was really compelling, probably because the capital letters were easy to read. I have been unable to find any reference source that suggests Brennan has previously been stripped of his clearance. I also was unable to find any sources that revealed what Brennan may or may not have accessed on a classified level. Not sure why, but I get this blinking message in red that tells me I do not have clearance to access the data. Come to think of it that message was all in caps as well. Has Brennan been stripped of his clearance? 1
Buffalo_Gal Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 22 minutes ago, baskin said: I think it won't quote because you wrote inside the quote box (had to take off the bold, the caps were bad enough, but the bold was downright obnoxious) ...MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO SOME RESEARCH ON HOW MUCH INTELLIGENCE HE HAS ACCESS TO RECENTLY... My answer? Five Eyes. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I think it won't quote because you wrote inside the quote box (had to take off the bold, the caps were bad enough, but the bold was downright obnoxious) ...MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO SOME RESEARCH ON HOW MUCH INTELLIGENCE HE HAS ACCESS TO RECENTLY... My answer? Five Eyes. thanks. it was obnoxious, uncalled for, and rude on baskins part. there was a time when that sort of things aggravated me, but i'm pretty comfortable with the way i see the world. better off to let baskin be baskin, and i'll just go get a slice of pizza.
DC Tom Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I think it won't quote because you wrote inside the quote box (had to take off the bold, the caps were bad enough, but the bold was downright obnoxious) ...MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO SOME RESEARCH ON HOW MUCH INTELLIGENCE HE HAS ACCESS TO RECENTLY... My answer? Five Eyes. Lot more than that. 1
Buffalo_Gal Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 Just now, DC Tom said: Lot more than that. No doubt.
boyst Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 51 minutes ago, baskin said: You have absolutely no right to type the word intelligence. It is too painful to read you attempting to do so.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: How do you address the folks in the campaign like Flynn who have admitted guilt? You should take the time to really reexamine the Flynn case with these markers in mind: 1. Why was Judge Contreas removed from his case after the Strzok/Page texts started coming out? 2. What did Flynn actually plead guilty to? How does that line up with both Comey and McCabe's testimony before Congress? 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Because they're using him to get further evidence I would suppose. Prosecutors do that all the time. This is not what is happening with Flynn. Promise. 1 hour ago, baskin said: As usual, Baskin is incorrect. Brennan has had access to loads of Intel. He gets finished Intel briefs in addition to his ability to access Intel on his own in scifs. 1
Trogdor Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: As usual, Baskin is incorrect. Brennan has had access to loads of Intel. He gets finished Intel briefs in addition to his ability to access Intel on his own in scifs. Do you have anything to back this up? A clearance alone doesn't grant you access to information. You need to have a need to know and authorization in conjunction with the proper clearance to get into a scif or to access intel. Two people working in the same building with the same clearance might not have access to the same information.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 https://mobile.twitter.com/Jim_Jordan/status/1021781707450667011 5 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Do you have anything to back this up? A clearance alone doesn't grant you access to information. You need to have a need to know and authorization in conjunction with the proper clearance to get into a scif or to access intel. Two people working in the same building with the same clearance might not have access to the same information. 24+ months of research. Brennan was director level. He gets copies of all finished intelligence (if he so chooses, which he has) on programs he was involved in and ones he was not. Plus, due to Five Eyes agreement, he can go to London and sit in a sciff and access anything he wishes. As can clinton. As can Obama. 1
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