26CornerBlitz Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: That assumes CrowdStrike is operating on the level and not a part of the plot, 26. This is what you can't escape. If CrowdStrike is dirty, and there's LOTS of evidence to suggest they are, then anything given to the FBI cannot be trusted without independent verification. This is the issue. No one, at least not me, is suggesting all the FBI needed to do is look at one server. That's missing the point. The point is they took the word of a partisan government contractor who themselves are deeply intertwined with very real 702 abuse inside the FBI-CID and DOJ-NSD. What you're suggesting is that CrowdStrike is unimpeachable as is the data they turned over. I suggest that's naive. For exactly that reason, those two differences of opinion, a neutral and independent investigation of the hardware is needed. If what I'm suggesting about CrowdStrike is "conspiracy" and untrue, that kind of independent investigation would verify it and take away that line of attack. But if we just take them at their word, as you're suggesting, that question remains open for all time. Don't you agree that in this investigation, with all that's at stake (literally people calling to start a war with Russia in response) demands an overly transparent and honest investigation into the matter at hand? Wouldn't it be more logical to take what I'm suggesting under advisement than it is to brush it off? If you tackle my question head on, we get to the truth one way or the other. If we tackle the problem the way you're suggesting we MIGHT get the truth, or we might get snowed. One way is better than the other with the stakes this high. And that way happens to be the proper protocol for criminal investigations. Let someone prove any of the things that you allege. Thus far it's all conspiratorial chatter that has not been verified and there are plenty of dumbasses including 45 who keep on yelling about "the server".
Bray Wyatt Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Let someone prove any of the things that you allege. Thus far it's all conspiratorial chatter that has not been verified and there are plenty of dumbasses including 45 who keep on yelling about "the server". I agree that it hasnt been proven yet that CrowdStrike hasnt acted accordingly. However, there is certainly enough smoke to point that they may not be, and I believe they should have used an independant examiner to confirm the findings etc. The optics on the way it is currently certainly doesnt look good imo
Deranged Rhino Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Let someone prove any of the things that you allege. Thus far it's all conspiratorial chatter that has not been verified and there are plenty of dumbasses including 45 who keep on yelling about "the server". I know you didn't follow this thread closely the past few months, but there is real evidence behind this claim. It's not just conspiratorial chatter, it's FISC memos, NSA reports, IG reports, and Congressional testimony that make this case. The FBI-CID and DOJ-NSD are the two most powerful divisions in the FBI and DOJ. They're the only two civilian counter espionage divisions in the civilian side of our federal government, as such they have more power and access than other divisions within the DOJ. This includes access to NSA servers inside holding 702 data. 702 data is every electronic communication and phone call originating from American citizens. It was discovered in March of 2016 - before any of the hacks took place - that government contractors inside the CID and NSD were illegally accessing this NSA server without oversight or warrants for an unknown period of time. The data collected in the audit from November 2015-April 2016 showed - per the independent FISC - that 85% of these searches were illegal. Admiral Rogers, head of NSA at the time, made this discovery and ordered the FBI-CID and DOJ-NSD to shut off access to these NSA servers until proper technical fixes could be implemented. In the interim, NSA demanded the FBI and DOJ (and its contractors) provide the NSA with an explanation for each and every illegal quarry run during that time frame. All that can be read here: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf (pay attention to page 83-84) Did you know any of that? Edited July 18, 2018 by Deranged Rhino
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Did you know any of that? I think you know the answer to that question.
26CornerBlitz Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I know you didn't follow this thread closely the past few months, but there is real evidence behind this claim. It's not just conspiratorial chatter, it's FISC memos, NSA reports, IG reports, and Congressional testimony that make this case. The FBI-CID and DOJ-NSD are the two most powerful divisions in the FBI and DOJ. They're the only two civilian counter espionage divisions in the civilian side of our federal government, as such they have more power and access than other divisions within the DOJ. This includes access to NSA servers inside holding 702 data. 702 data is every electronic communication and phone call originating from American citizens. It was discovered in March of 2016 - before any of the hacks took place - that government contractors inside the CID and NSD were illegally accessing this NSA server without oversight or warrants for an unknown period of time. The data collected in the audit from November 2015-April 2016 showed - per the independent FISC - that 85% of these searches were illegal. Admiral Rogers, head of NSA at the time, made this discovery and ordered the FBI-CID and DOJ-NSD to shut off access to these NSA servers until proper technical fixes could be implemented. In the interim, NSA demanded the FBI and DOJ (and its contractors) provide the NSA with an explanation for each and every illegal quarry run during that time frame. All that can be read here: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf (pay attention to page 83-84) Did you know any of that? Reading the specifics here, I see no smoking gun that shows any wrongdoing with the unfettered access that is now cutoff.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Reading the specifics here, I see no smoking gun that shows any wrongdoing with the unfettered access that is now cutoff. I haven't gotten there yet, I'm just trying to catch you up with the provable facts first. 7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Reading the specifics here, I see no smoking gun that shows any wrongdoing with the unfettered access that is now cutoff. Now, kindly, take a look at the larger context (worth the time, fully sourced): On 7/13/2018 at 10:10 AM, Deranged Rhino said: I'm only asking questions to prompt a fruitful discussion rather than a combative one, so if this becomes annoying let me know. That's not my intent (I'm just long winded). It's just you stated your opinion today on this issue, and I think it's a common one that many people agree with. But, because of the nature of the (dis)information war going on, it's not a complete picture. That's not a fault of your own, I think you're an honest broker going with the facts you have available. So for all those reasons I figure it might be helpful for others to see how this really worked. Back to Hannigan and how that connects... Were you aware that there are two divisions within the DOJ that have access to raw NSA data? That data, called 702 data, is every single electronic communication made by everyone in the country. The FBI Counter Intelligence Division (CID) and the DOJ National Security Division (NSD). Both of these divisions are the DOJ's most secretive and powerful as they're essentially the only non-military domestic counter intelligence units. In order for FBI agents or DOJ employees to access the information on these servers (which again, are American communications) they need a warrant from the FISC, this is in order to protect our 4th amendment right to privacy. When 44 was elected in his first term, he appointed the DOJ inspector general Michael Horowitz. As IG, Horowitz's job was to perform oversight on the entire DOJ - yet, Eric Holder (backed by Obama with an assist from Sally Yates) re-interpreted the IG law starting in 2010 and prevented Horowitz from access to both the NSD and CID. The only two divisions in the DOJ which Horowitz was denied the ability to perform his duties. Horowitz spent the next 6 years fighting to get this access back, as it was essential to doing his job. He testified to Congress multiple times: He wrote op-eds: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/give-inspectors-general-access-to-the-records-they-need-to-do-their-jobs/2015/10/18/54942f30-738a-11e5-9cbb-790369643cf9_story.html?utm_term=.6113e4173050 Then Sally Yates and the AG responded in 2010 with 58 pages of legal word salad that essentially told Horowitz to get bent: https://www.ignet.gov/sites/default/files/files/OLC IG Act Opinion - 7-20-15 .pdf Whatever was going on in both the CID and NSD, the Obama administration - through both AGs Holder and Lynch - changed the interpretation of the law to prevent the Inspector General from overseeing what was happening. Odd right? The two most powerful divisions in the Department of Justice were deemed off limits to transparency by a POTUS who promised to run the most "transparent administration" ever. This is crucial background to understanding the events of 2016. Why? Because of what happened in March, 2016 when the NSA became aware of an increase in illegal (as in, without a warrant or proper explanation) 702 searches on NSA servers. The NSA, starting in January, began looking into this issue as noted in this report (not made public until 2017), and instituted a number of internal NSA remedies to fix the issue and comply with the law: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/NSA_IG_Report_1_7_16_ST-15-0002.pdf By March of 2016, Admiral Mike Rogers - head of NSA - was made aware of (or discovered himself) that despite the internal changes made to the NSA, the 702 quarries were continuing unchecked. Only now, he could pinpoint where the violations were coming from: the DOJ-NSD and FBI-CID. So in March of 2016, Mike Rogers ordered a full audit of the 702 program. This is a hugely important marker in the timeline. By April 18th, 2016 that audit was complete and NSA reported its findings to the FISC. The discovery was startling. 85% of the 702 quarries logged in the NSD/CID between November 2015 and April 2016 were deemed illegal or improper. These findings were compiled in a FISC opinion which are normally classified, but DNI Coats released it to the public in 2017. Note pages 83-84: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf And note the key finding by the FISC: There is no apparent reason to believe the November 2015-April 2016 period coincided with an unusually high rate. And note the top of page 84: "[REDACTED] and 'is largely staffed by private contractors [REDACTED] certain [REDACTED] contractors had access to raw FISA information on FBI storage systems [REDACTED] ... Nonetheless the [REDACTED] contractors had access to raw FISA information that went well beyond what was necessary to respond to FBI's request." This is dense stuff... but we're almost to the punchline, bear with me. Understand what this FISC memo is stating. It's stating that government contractors inside the FBI-CID and DOJ-NSD were accessing this 702 data without a warrant or oversight for an extended, and unknown, period of time. Think about what that implies when you connect it to Horowitz being denied access to those two divisions. It implies, strongly, that Holder/Lynch/Obama were aware of these abuses of 702 data inside those departments and wished to keep it from the Inspector General (and thus the public). Why would it be so important to keep that kind of abuse secret unless you were profiting in some way from it? How would a sitting POTUS benefit from government contractors having illegal access to 702 data? Think of the POWER of that information. It's everyone's secrets. Everyone's communications. Everyone's texts, tweets, instant messages. That's a treasure trove of blackmail material for your enemies and allies. That kind of information is priceless in political campaigns, or in day-to-day bureaucracy of DC. Got a Congressman who won't vote with you? Hmm, wonder what we'll find in his hidden emails to make him more compliant. Sounds CRAZY. Until you realize who the contractors inside the DOJ-NSD and CID were. While the names in the official FISC memo are redacted, there is STRONG evidence to imply that both Fusion GPS and CrowdStrike were two of those contractors with unfettered access to the most sensitive surveillance data in our IC arsenal. See where this is going yet? The Obama administration (and likely other administrations before it) created an illegal surveillance operation inside the DOJ designed for political spying on their opposition. They were using this access to spy on all the primary campaigns in 2015-2016, not just Trump's. They were deeply invested in making sure the "right" candidate won, and (likely) used this access to aid the Clinton campaign with oppo research. This doesn't require a large number of conspirators, or everyone in the FBI/DOJ/Obama administration to be dirty. It doesn't require a massive "conspiracy". Just a small, tightly controlled circle immune from oversight with access to the most invasive surveillance tools available. Back to the timeline: On April 18th, 2016 Mike Rogers shuts off 702 access to all 702 access outside the NSA. He testified as to the timeline below. Note the October date mentioned towards the end, then remember that the first Page FISA warrant was signed October 20th 2016. So, on April 18th, Mike Rogers shut down this illegal surveillance program. IMMEDIATELY upon this happening, Mary Jacoby - wife of Glenn Simpson (Fusion GPS) - has an Oval Office meeting with Obama, the subject of which has never been made public. The next day, the pieces begin to move to reopen this surveillance pipeline began in earnest with Fusion GPS being retained by Perkins Coie... the rest can be read here: (more sources) 1. DOJ Response Memo: https://www.ignet.gov/sites/default/files/files/OLC%20IG%20Act%20Opinion%20-%207-20-15%20.pdf … 2. NSA IG Report: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/NSA_IG_Report_1_7_16_ST-15-0002.pdf … 3. NSA IG Compliance Review: https://cryptome.org/2017/09/nsa-oig-fisa-702-jan-2016.pdf … 4. FISC Opinion Memo: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf … 5. quoted source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/23/gchq-chief-robert-hannigan-quits
26CornerBlitz Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I haven't gotten there yet, I'm just trying to catch you up with the provable facts first. Now, kindly, take a look at the larger context (worth the time, fully sourced): Rogers himself supports the conclusion that Russia hacked the DNC. How do you explain this?
boyst Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Rogers himself supports the conclusion that Russia hacked the DNC. How do you explain this? You are getting whipped around. Changing the entire argument to this. Your statement is nothing to do with the statement made by Rogers, your statement allows for the misinterpretation of "hacking," and further exposes you as intellectually dishonest or ignorant. Sorry, sweetie. Had to come back to sing to you... I'll probably get a warning point for this as it is... My fan club loves me. I still want to figure out who @26tsyoB is... It's like @26CornerBlitz and I had a kid. Hope he got my brains. And looks.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Rogers himself supports the conclusion that Russia hacked the DNC. How do you explain this? The NSA put their confidence at 50% in the original ICA based entirely on the hacking claims. Rogers only upped the NSA confidence once the hacking claims were taken out. This is why "meddling" has always been conflated with "hacking". To confuse important details like this. This entire narrative was concocted to cover up a massive political spying operation put in place by former administrations inside the FBI and DOJ. Plug in the dates of the hacks from the indictment - they all (but the most minor one in 2015) happened after March 9th, 2016. If you acknowledge CrowdStrike was one of the government contractors inside the CID making those illegal searches (they WERE an FBI contractor in that division at the time), then suddenly all their actions post the "hack" make way more sense. That doesn't mean Russia didn't meddle. They did. It doesn't mean Russia didn't try to interfere. They did. It just means they weren't the only ones meddling in the election. The previous administration, and the CIA, were also meddling in the election - and doing so in a much more invasive and pernicious way. Yet, that conversation isn't being had... because of how hard the "Russians hacked the election" (always a lie) has been pushed for the past 17+ months by messengers in the media who are carrying the water for this CYA scheme. Everything laid out above has mountains of evidence to support it. There's even more evidence to support CrowdStrike's involvement (they're the only company with access to all four servers: the DNC/DCCC/Clinton/FBI-NSA servers. There's connections in CrowdStrike's management team to Russian intelligence. There's a long history of CrowdStrike ignoring previous FBI warnings about hacks... They only seemed to care and act after Rogers shut off their illegal spying spigot. Then, within two weeks, you have Fusion GPS hired, Steele hired, Brennan going to Moscow in secret to talk with the FSB (not GRU), Strzok goes to London (at the same time Downer and Dearlove are there), and Mary Jacoby has a private meeting at the White House with Obama. Oh, and there's also this still unexplained meeting at the White House on April 13th - during the audit and just days before Rogers shut down the access: Things like this are serious questions that aren't being answered or even explored by most. Why? (Because this whole thing ends up at Obama's doorstep and they are circling the media wagons to provide cover) https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/briefing-room/disclosures/visitor-records Edited July 18, 2018 by Deranged Rhino
26CornerBlitz Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: The NSA put their confidence at 50% in the original ICA based entirely on the hacking claims. Rogers only upped the NSA confidence once the hacking claims were taken out. This is why "meddling" has always been conflated with "hacking". To confuse important details like this. This entire narrative was concocted to cover up a massive political spying operation put in place by former administrations inside the FBI and DOJ. Plug in the dates of the hacks from the indictment - they all (but the most minor one in 2015) happened after March 9th, 2016. If you acknowledge CrowdStrike was one of the government contractors inside the CID making those illegal searches (they WERE an FBI contractor in that division at the time), then suddenly all their actions post the "hack" make way more sense. That doesn't mean Russia didn't meddle. They did. It doesn't mean Russia didn't try to interfere. They did. It just means they weren't the only ones meddling in the election. The previous administration, and the CIA, were also meddling in the election - and doing so in a much more invasive and pernicious way. Yet, that conversation isn't being had... because of how hard the "Russians hacked the election" (always a lie) has been pushed for the past 17+ months by messengers in the media who are carrying the water for this CYA scheme. Everything laid out above has mountains of evidence to support it. There's even more evidence to support CrowdStrike's involvement (they're the only company with access to all four servers: the DNC/DCCC/Clinton/FBI-NSA servers. There's connections in CrowdStrike's management team to Russian intelligence. There's a long history of CrowdStrike ignoring previous FBI warnings about hacks... They only seemed to care and act after Rogers shut off their illegal spying spigot. Then, within two weeks, you have Fusion GPS hired, Steele hired, Brennan going to Moscow in secret to talk with the FSB (not GRU), Strzok goes to London (at the same time Downer and Dearlove are there), and Mary Jacoby has a private meeting at the White House with Obama. Oh, and there's also this still unexplained meeting at the White House on April 13th - during the audit and just days before Rogers shut down the access: Things like this are serious questions that aren't being answered or even explored by most. Why? (Because this whole thing ends up at Obama's doorstep and they are circling the media wagons to provide cover) Moderate confidence is the term he used IIRC. He also said he was only moderately confident that the Russians wanted Trump to win, but we now know they did based on the affirmative from what Putin said in Helsinki.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Moderate confidence is the term he used IIRC. He also said he was only moderately confident that the Russians wanted Trump to win, but we now know they did based on the affirmative from what Putin said in Helsinki. Moderate confidence in NSA parlance is 50%. Note too, this was the original assessment in the ICA which everyone said "all 17 intel agencies agree!" - that was never the case, as was clear just by reading the document. More on Rogers... remember he was an Obama hire. But then, starting in October of 2016 - without explanation - Jim Clapper, Brennan, and Ash Carter demanded Obama fire Rogers. Why? (Because he ordered the NSA audit). What did Rogers do after Trump won, do you remember? He went to Trump Tower and had an unscheduled meeting with Trump. What happened immediately after that meeting, besides the press killing Rogers for doing so? Trump's entire transition team moved from Trump Tower to New Jersey. Do you think Rogers told Trump about the illegal spying going on in Trump Tower? It's the only explanation that makes sense. (I'm not asking you to take my word on any of this, I'm providing sources so you can review them for yourself and make up your own mind. These are primary sources for the most part, and despite some redactions, they're pretty hard to rebut)
Koko78 Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 All the fun sniping about the server aside, any criminal defense attorney worth a crap will be hammering the point that the FBI never had been allowed access to the physical server, and that they had no way to compare what was provided to them by a third party to the information contained on the server itself. That's even assuming that the prosecutors can show a complete chain of custody of what was turned over to the FBI. There are enough questionable actors within CrowdStrike, the DNC, and the FBI to paint a fairly compelling picture of shenanigans going on to a jury. 2
DC Tom Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Koko78 said: All the fun sniping about the server aside, any criminal defense attorney worth a crap will be hammering the point that the FBI never had been allowed access to the physical server, and that they had no way to compare what was provided to them by a third party to the information contained on the server itself. That's even assuming that the prosecutors can show a complete chain of custody of what was turned over to the FBI. There are enough questionable actors within CrowdStrike, the DNC, and the FBI to paint a fairly compelling picture of shenanigans going on to a jury. If it even gets to a jury. There's enough squirreliness around the evidence that a good defense attorney in front of the right judge could get this tossed on the basis of "Are you !@#$ing kidding me with this half-assed bull ****?"
Koko78 Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, DC Tom said: If it even gets to a jury. There's enough squirreliness around the evidence that a good defense attorney in front of the right judge could get this tossed on the basis of "Are you !@#$ing kidding me with this half-assed bull ****?" Possible, however issues as to chain of custody and weight/credibility are trial issues.
njbuff Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, Koko78 said: All the fun sniping about the server aside, any criminal defense attorney worth a crap will be hammering the point that the FBI never had been allowed access to the physical server, and that they had no way to compare what was provided to them by a third party to the information contained on the server itself. That's even assuming that the prosecutors can show a complete chain of custody of what was turned over to the FBI. There are enough questionable actors within CrowdStrike, the DNC, and the FBI to paint a fairly compelling picture of shenanigans going on to a jury. They all deserve Purple Hearts.
Koko78 Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, njbuff said: They all deserve Purple Hearts. Purple Hearts and Silver Stars.
outsidethebox Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Boyst62 said: You are getting whipped around. Changing the entire argument to this. Your statement is nothing to do with the statement made by Rogers, your statement allows for the misinterpretation of "hacking," and further exposes you as intellectually dishonest or ignorant. Sorry, sweetie. Had to come back to sing to you... I'll probably get a warning point for this as it is... My fan club loves me. I still want to figure out who @26tsyoB is... It's like @26CornerBlitz and I had a kid. Hope he got my brains. And looks. Don't let the bastards grind you down!
Deranged Rhino Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 If we all agree, as I think we do, that our elections need to be protected and attempting to meddle in them or influence them is a grave threat to our democratic republic - why are we accepting a half-assed investigation that determined the culprit before even beginning its investigation? Why do we just ignore the very real, very pernicious, illegal spying operation run by the FBI, CIA, State Department, and the Obama White House? Shouldn't both be investigated in full, if only to assure the American public our votes actually matter?
gatorbait Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, joesixpack said: Not if the snapshots are deleted you !@#$ing retard. You really think these crowdstrike ppl wouldn't think of that? Come on !@#$wit, go back to the main board where you belong. You add NOTHING here. Wtf do you think you add to the discussion? All you do is whine and complain and call for ridiculous actions against things you don’t like or agree with. You are no DC Tom, you’re like the dead beat drunk uncle that the rest of the family puts up with because they have to.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, gatorbait said: Wtf do you think you add to the discussion? All you do is whine and complain and call for ridiculous actions against things you don’t like or agree with. You are no DC Tom, you’re like the dead beat drunk uncle that the rest of the family puts up with because they have to. What does that make you in this dysfunctional family? The freak Tranny "aunt" that's a chainsmoker? Vahginia Slims dahling. Edited July 18, 2018 by joesixpack
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