Thurmal34 Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 If your country was under attack at it’s very core, base, and foundation, would you care more about the cool foriegners you knew or reality? If another land attacks your fundamental institutions and you blame a political party are you still capable of decision making? 1
thebug Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) You folks don’t seem too concerned that this actually happened? Seems like you just want to blame or deflect blame? Is this not serious? FFS a Russian just took huge run at your goalie a cross checked him in the back of the head and you guys just skated back to the bench. (Sorry as a Canadian that was the first thing that came to mind) Maybe this is not a big deal? Edited February 17, 2018 by thebug 2
keepthefaith Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, thebug said: You folks don’t seem too concerned that this actually happened? Seems like you just want to blame or deflect blame? Is this not serious? FFS a Russian just took huge run at your goalie a cross checked him in the back of the head and you guys just skated back to the bench. (Sorry as a Canadian that was the first thing that came to mind) Maybe this is not a big deal? I think the goalie analogy is a little strong. The impact of this meddling seems to be more on the order of a small beer spill on one fan by a fan of a rival team.
Deranged Rhino Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 4 hours ago, DC Tom said: As much as I keep reading about this indictment, and the outrage it's generating, I still see nothing more than "People pretending to be people they're not trolled gullible Americans on Facebook." This indictment is less an indictment of Russians than it is an indictment of an ignorant and indolent American public for literally being incapable of handling free speech on the internet. It's embarrassing. The end result of this is less "protecting American democracy" than it is ending it by admitting we're too incompetent to think for ourselves, and need a higher authority to sanction information for us. Yup. Check out my post quoted below from 7/20. 2 hours ago, snafu said: Side note: since it has come out that this Russian chaos plan was in effect since 2013(?), why wasn't anything done about it before the 2016 election? Why did it take Mueller's group to do anything about it? Because the impact on elections and actual votes were minimal. (imo) 1 hour ago, thebug said: You folks don’t seem too concerned that this actually happened? Seems like you just want to blame or deflect blame? Is this not serious? FFS a Russian just took huge run at your goalie a cross checked him in the back of the head and you guys just skated back to the bench. (Sorry as a Canadian that was the first thing that came to mind) Maybe this is not a big deal? I dug up some old posts to link them for your reference. Lots of people were concerned about this, for different reasons, from the start. On 7/20/2017 at 4:22 PM, Deranged Rhino said: It's a totally fair question - and for clarity there is zero doubt in my mind that the Russians waged such a propaganda campaign. There's zero doubt because those sorts of campaigns have been waged as long as there have been newspapers. That Russia uses information warfare isn't news, and that story alone shouldn't be particularly alarming to anyone familiar with history (as I know you are). And that's exactly why the hysteria over this story has always smacked of something deeper than just this election or this president. Because you're right, there were probably lots of people swayed by such propaganda during this election cycle. I personally doubt whether that amount of people were statistically significant enough to sway the election one way or the other, but for argument's sake let's say it was enough. How was this feat accomplished? By using the powers our own system, our own freedoms of thought, speech, and the press against us. This is the part of the story that isn't being discussed - and it's arguably the most important element. If you're accusing them of writing dubious news stories and putting them out on the web for Americans to read, then in reality they committed no crime other than playing on our own stupidity as a nation and using our own system against us. That, to me, is more of an "us" problem than a Russian problem. Getting back to your point, this is something that was clearly done. So, what's the solution? The one immediately floated out by the Washington Post several months ago now was to label these stories "fake news" - which then allowed search engines and social media companies to begin vetting which articles and stories can get traction on their sites. In other words, the first solution proposed was censorship. The solution to protecting our country's sacred institution was to fundamentally undercut our first amendment protection. Think about that and let it sink in. In the name of protecting our freedoms, the first solution offered (and the solution that's ultimately at the root of all the others I've heard so far) is to limit our citizen's ability to read, say, or write what they wish. And this time it's not coming from the right. It's coming from the left. Which, as someone who believes in liberalism in the actual definition of the word, is astonishing to hear. The War on Terror demanded a sacrifice of our right to privacy. "That's the only way to protect our nation," is what was said at the time. A short while later the right to due process went out the window in the name of stopping lone wolf actors. Now, in 2017, we're honestly discussing giving up our first amendment rights in order to protect our nation from Russian aggression. Here's my question: If we no longer have the basic fundamental rights that make us American and made this country the beacon of freedom it is - what are we actually protecting with these sorts of overreactions? My answer: an empire that has nothing to do with the people of this country. The real problem with this whole narrative is that Russia, even though they are most certainly guilty of what you're describing, isn't really the enemy. An adversary? Sure. But they are not a hostile enemy as they're being painted as being in this story. That's not defending Russia, that's just an honest threat assessment. So if Russia isn't really a hostile actor, what's the point of this hysteria? If you take the politics out of it (which is darned near impossible, I grant you), this is a story designed to pump up the budgets of the MiC and defense contractors. The War on Terror is fading, a new boogeyman is needed to justify the budgets of various departments, agencies, and contractors. The real enemy isn't Russia. The real enemy is within. It's the system that educated - or failed to educate - those people who were swayed by the Russian propaganda on basic critical thinking skills. We don't teach that anymore, we teach our kids how to pass tests not how to think. Our education system is in tatters in part because we spend billions a year on defense instead of investing that into our people and future. That's not to say I think we should spend nothing on defense - not at all - just that we're currently out of whack with our priorities in the spending department. And this narrative will only further put us out of whack because it's shifting the blame and focus to more empire building rather than focusing on the issues on the home front. imo of course. On 3/11/2017 at 10:38 AM, Deranged Rhino said: Actually, nothing in the document has been corroborated other than who it was compiled by. I'm open to the idea that Russia interfered, but before I make such a leap, I'd like to see actual evidence that doesn't rely on unnamed sources citing unnamed methods. Especially when those unnamed sources and unnamed methods are being pushed by known liars and perjurers with a history of lying the country into war on falsified grounds. On 3/11/2017 at 10:45 AM, Deranged Rhino said: You are incorrect that "much" of the dossier has been corroborated as fact -- and the media is not an arbiter of truth on their own. From your own source (of which the Independent is... not the most reliable of rags): "Some of the claims appear to have been verified..." -- if that's your threshold for "proof" then that explains your rush to judgment on this issue. Steele was a former MI6 officer who was hired to do opposition research on Trump. That immediately not only brings into question his motive (making stuff up to justify his paycheck) but his also methods and sources. Big claims require hard proof. Did we learn nothing from WMD? On 3/20/2017 at 10:14 AM, Deranged Rhino said: No one, at least not me, is arguing they're not worth looking into. What's being debated is what conclusions can be drawn from this information. There is a rush to judgment on the left that has existed since election night... and so far none of the evidence, even the circumstantial stuff you reference, makes that case. Yet people like Schiff are acting like it's already a proven case when it's anything but. On 3/22/2017 at 8:33 PM, Deranged Rhino said: Potential treason, when it's covered in the way it's being covered by many in the press and in government, actually can be hilarious. But I don't think anyone posting here thinks actual treason of the kind being suggested by a sitting president is something to laugh at. We're all on the same side, even though everyone speaking into a microphone right now is trying their best to make us feel like we have to pick a side. Without evidence, these remain just speculations and theorizing that puts my work in the deep state thread to shame on many levels. That doesn't mean (most) people in this thread are saying it couldn't have happened, just that it honestly has not been proven to be anything more than smoke... despite 8 months of ongoing investigations.
row_33 Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 4 hours ago, keepthefaith said: I think the goalie analogy is a little strong. The impact of this meddling seems to be more on the order of a small beer spill on one fan by a fan of a rival team. Matters not a bit, but people are free to spend 3,000 more hours whining about Trump winning if they want.
Bob in Mich Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 4 hours ago, keepthefaith said: I think the goalie analogy is a little strong. The impact of this meddling seems to be more on the order of a small beer spill on one fan by a fan of a rival team. Yeah, I suppose...if that fan then fell backwards over the glass, onto the ice, KO'd the goalie, and deflected the puck into the net for a goal.
row_33 Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 It over and long done but keep crying, it’s the background music to our enjoyment to MAGA
Bob in Mich Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, row_33 said: It over and long done but keep crying, it’s the background music to our enjoyment to MAGA So, what's the story 33, are you one of these agents of Russia sowing discord on this PPP message board? As you know, I have mentioned this before but did not really get your response. I began to wonder because so many of your posts seem very divisive. Not as in holding a strong opinion in a discussion, but sort of drive-by divisive, like to stir up the discussion. You also speak of and defend Russia more than anyone else I have seen here, seem to have a strong European knowledge, and use some less familiar vocabulary. I know some here have claimed you are Canadian and you may live in Canada, but that alone, if true, would not invalidate the question. Did you emigrate to Canada recently? You don't post like most Canadians, not to mention the supposed Russian language posts you exchange with 3rd. Now those seem like BS and 3rd doesn't appear smart enough to be recruited as an agent but you, you.......not so sure about you 33. To other posters, just be aware of the possibilities. Even if I am in left field about 33, there could be divisive forces on here. Lord knows discussions around here devolve quickly into insult contests. Any thoughts?
snafu Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 6 hours ago, thebug said: You folks don’t seem too concerned that this actually happened? Seems like you just want to blame or deflect blame? Is this not serious? FFS a Russian just took huge run at your goalie a cross checked him in the back of the head and you guys just skated back to the bench. (Sorry as a Canadian that was the first thing that came to mind) Maybe this is not a big deal? I'm not sure what you mean by "you folks". Is that us on a message board who suspect underhanded activity and only now have had our government tell us about it even though they knew for at least four years? So if "you folks" are the general populace, then we only just saw our goalie just take the hit. Problem is, we're not on the ice to retaliate. I can get my stick and go smack some Russians around, but I'm pretty sure that I won't really be smacking the right Russians. If "you folks" is our government, nobody on this board knows whether any retaliation is going on at the moment. There's been a lot of complaining that Trump is letting this happen with no thought that maybe (a) the prior administration let this happen and (b) maybe something is happening and we don't know it, and (c ) got any ideas -- other than sanctions?
Nanker Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Bob in Mich said: So, what's the story 33, are you one of these agents of Russia sowing discord on this PPP message board? As you know, I have mentioned this before but did not really get your response. I began to wonder because so many of your posts seem very divisive. Not as in holding a strong opinion in a discussion, but sort of drive-by divisive, like to stir up the discussion. You also speak of and defend Russia more than anyone else I have seen here, seem to have a strong European knowledge, and use some less familiar vocabulary. I know some here have claimed you are Canadian and you may live in Canada, but that alone, if true, would not invalidate the question. Did you emigrate to Canada recently? You don't post like most Canadians, not to mention the supposed Russian language posts you exchange with 3rd. Now those seem like BS and 3rd doesn't appear smart enough to be recruited as an agent but you, you.......not so sure about you 33. To other posters, just be aware of the possibilities. Even if I am in left field about 33, there could be divisive forces on here. Lord knows discussions around here devolve quickly into insult contests. Any thoughts? It could be. But I doubt anyone here other than folks who think like you do give him much credence most of the time. I think of him as though he’s probably EII’s drunk Canadian cousin. Gotta run now and go collect my monthly $6,000 check from Sergi. Don’t know why he does it, but he said if i’d Vote for Trump he’d pay me $6k a month for the duration of his first term. How much did Hillary’s camp pay you?
4merper4mer Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Bob in Mich said: Yeah, I suppose...if that fan then fell backwards over the glass, onto the ice, KO'd the goalie, and deflected the puck into the net for a goal. We get it, we get it. If the fans were smoking pot there would have never been a scuffle. Too mellow. 1
Tiberius Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 12 hours ago, Doc said: And what do you think the "Trump dossier" was all about? What's your point?
KW95 - JA17 Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 Is it me or is Trump always adjusting his tie and collar. Something must be tightening around that big fat neck. 2
Tiberius Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 7 hours ago, keepthefaith said: I think the goalie analogy is a little strong. The impact of this meddling seems to be more on the order of a small beer spill on one fan by a fan of a rival team. No, they attacked our democracy and you just don't care. The term fascism has been thrown around a lot and with good reason. We have a huge fifth column in this country ready and willing to take Russian aid at the expense of our major institutions. 2 minutes ago, KW95 said: Is it me or is Trump always adjusting his tie and collar. Something must be tightening around that big fat neck. He sure is afraid of the media now. As is John Kelly. As is Sanders. What a disaster. Thanks Putin
4merper4mer Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 There are 2 things going on here: 1. Some idiot Russians made a Facebook account and tried to stir up stojan. The indictment says their is no evidence of collusion with Trump, Sanders or anyone else. Big deal. That is a distraction. The real thing is that there is no evidence it had any impact with or without collusion. Because is was a friggin Facebook page with bad grammar. Even the cherry picked "examples" were poorly written. This is a far less effective Tokyo Rose. Crap like this has gone on daily in different forms since the dawn of time. 2. Establishment cretins like Mueller,Comey, Hillary, Jeb, Jeb, Chuck, Mitt, Matt Lauer, Wolf, and more still can't believe they lost. They are still trying to blame it on some mysterious all powerful source instead of coming to grips with the fact that they are both out of touch with reality and still not quite powerful enough to completely control the electorate. So now they will try to take it by force, which is far less comfortable. Neither Bernie nor Trump had the impacts they did because of Russians or even because of themselves really. They had their impact because they were not Hillary or Jeb or someone else like them. Trump and Bernie had just enough personality to add a few people that were actually voting for them and not simply against the other ones. It made the whole thing a failure for the establishment. Ghoul Mueller connecting unconnected dots can't ever change reality even if it gets Trump kicked out, drawn and quartered and replaced by Hillary. Enough people have sufficiently tired of watching absolute dolts like Kirsten Gillibrand or Mitch McConnell being portrayed as actually having firing synapses, and critical thinking skills that the establishment can't get the mindshare back without a level of force far higher than they want. This isn't as easy as the NFL convincing the fandom that Andrew Luck has had an elite pro career.
Nanker Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 52 minutes ago, Tiberius said: No, they attacked our democracy and you just don't care. The term fascism has been thrown around a lot and with good reason. We have a huge fifth column in this country ready and willing to take Russian aid at the expense of our major institutions. He sure is afraid of the media now. As is John Kelly. As is Sanders. What a disaster. Thanks Putin Yes, we do. It's the DNC and they've trashed the integrity of the DOJ and the FBI. 1
3rdnlng Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Bob in Mich said: So, what's the story 33, are you one of these agents of Russia sowing discord on this PPP message board? As you know, I have mentioned this before but did not really get your response. I began to wonder because so many of your posts seem very divisive. Not as in holding a strong opinion in a discussion, but sort of drive-by divisive, like to stir up the discussion. You also speak of and defend Russia more than anyone else I have seen here, seem to have a strong European knowledge, and use some less familiar vocabulary. I know some here have claimed you are Canadian and you may live in Canada, but that alone, if true, would not invalidate the question. Did you emigrate to Canada recently? You don't post like most Canadians, not to mention the supposed Russian language posts you exchange with 3rd. Now those seem like BS and 3rd doesn't appear smart enough to be recruited as an agent but you, you.......not so sure about you 33. To other posters, just be aware of the possibilities. Even if I am in left field about 33, there could be divisive forces on here. Lord knows discussions around here devolve quickly into insult contests. Any thoughts? Thank you. Knowing that I don't meet the approval of a stoner who is dedicated to living his/her life in an altered state is somehow reassuring.
Tiberius Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: There are 2 things going on here: 1. Some idiot Russians made a Facebook account and tried to stir up stojan. The indictment says their is no evidence of collusion with Trump, Sanders or anyone else. The indictment does not say there is no evidence of collusion. The indictment says this indictment is about something else aside from collusion. The indictment does say there was a conspiracy to defraud our election run by Russians. That's it. Doesn't mean an end of the investigation at all 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The indictment does not say there is no evidence of collusion. The indictment says this indictment is about something else aside from collusion. The indictment does say there was a conspiracy to defraud our election run by Russians. That's it. Doesn't mean an end of the investigation at all I just hope they dig back far enough to figure out why this was able to happen on the BO and HRC watch. When you step back from it a bit, his description of her as adorably reckless with national security but a crackerjack candidate for Prezbian you have to wonder how bad it got in that administration. Then again, I have never understood why Russians placing phony ads ito influence an election is bad, but BO, HRC & Susan Rice et al creating a fictional account of Benghazi to influence an election was a resume booster for the modern democrat voter. But, lets see it through and see if we all can live with the results.
3rdnlng Posted February 17, 2018 Posted February 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I just hope they dig back far enough to figure out why this was able to happen on the BO and HRC watch. When you step back from it a bit, his description of her as adorably reckless with national security but a crackerjack candidate for Prezbian you have to wonder how bad it got in that administration. Then again, I have never understood why Russians placing phony ads ito influence an election is bad, but BO, HRC & Susan Rice et al creating a fictional account of Benghazi to influence an election was a resume booster for the modern democrat voter. But, lets see it through and see if we all can live with the results. Now you went and did it. Don't you know that any mention of Benghazi causes gator to double over in laughter and make his/her day?
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