McBean Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I read comments from the new HC that we already have our guy. Draft class of QB's in 2018 irrelevant. We all need to hope that Tyrod Taylor takes a big step this season. A healthy Watkins and a better WR core should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) It is folly to wait for a "sure fire" franchise QB. Last 5 years 2012 Andrew Luck. You needed the 1st overall pick 2013 No sure fire guys or even very good QB prospects 2014 A few good to very good prospects. Derek Carr and Jimmy G were well worth taking. 2015 No sure fire franchise guys. 2 guys were close in Winston and Mariotta and went 1st and 2nd overall. 2016 No sure fire franchise guys. 1 very good prospect in Carson Wentz and Dak Prescott was a good prospect late in the draft. 2017 No sure franchise guy. From my QB board 1 very good prospect in Pat Mahomes, 1 good prospect in Mitch Trubisky and 1 guy worth grabbing later in Josh Dobbs. Some may add Deshaun Watson as a guy they would take as well. So if our strategy is to wait for a sure fire franchise guy this franchise will be heading towards 3 decades without even a VERY GOOD QB that can win the team games. What a shame. I've yet to see anyone say we should wait for a sure-fire franchise guy. Strawman . Edited May 17, 2017 by horned dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I've yet to see anyone say we should wait for a sure-fire franchise guy. Strawman . Have you been on this board? People said don't draft Trubisky or Mahomes or Watson because we need to wait for a sure fire guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Have you been on this board? People said don't draft Trubisky or Mahomes or Watson because we need to wait for a sure fire guy. People said don't draft Trubisky, Mahomes or Watson because they were flawed prospects. Flawed prospects aren't the best investment of a top 10 pick. Did you also like Brady in the 2000 draft? I've never seen someone with such an incredible hit ratio. All of the QBs that you liked from the last 5 years have turned into good players. That's pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I haven't tracked his opinions, but some optometrists who specialize in hindsight seem to have a lot of perfect answers. At least on Mahomes he was committed up front. No idea about the track record. He may be reasonable, but I get sick of the people who are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 People said don't draft Trubisky, Mahomes or Watson because they were flawed prospects. Flawed prospects aren't the best investment of a top 10 pick. Did you also like Brady in the 2000 draft? I've never seen someone with such an incredible hit ratio. All of the QBs that you liked from the last 5 years have turned into good players. That's pretty impressive. A prospect that is not flawed is a sure fire franchise guy. And I just spelled out why waiting for one is idiotic. And no, I didn't just post players I liked. Nice spin. Only the last 2 drafts. I never looked that closely at the 2014 or 2015 draft class. We already had EJ in 2014 so I knew we wouldn't take one and in 2015 the top guys were out of reach and Lynch was a "whatever" prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 A prospect that is not flawed is a sure fire franchise guy. And I just spelled out why waiting for one is idiotic. And no, I didn't just post players I liked. Nice spin. Only the last 2 drafts. I never looked that closely at the 2014 or 2015 draft class. We already had EJ in 2014 so I knew we wouldn't take one and in 2015 the top guys were out of reach and Lynch was a "whatever" prospect. You used the benefit of hindsight and posted only guys that have good reputations today. No one believes that your top 2 QBs in 2016 were Wentz and Dak. In 2014 you liked the 4th and 5th guys picked but not the top 3? Hmmm.... It's not waiting for sure fire prospects. Say what you want about Kiper but he has 4 guys now ahead of Trubisky who went 2. Those guys, on paper, are less flawed in his opinion. You can get better value in a deeper class. I haven't tracked his opinions, but some optometrists who specialize in hindsight seem to have a lot of perfect answers. At least on Mahomes he was committed up front. No idea about the track record. He may be reasonable, but I get sick of the people who are not.He certainly is all in on Mahomes. I expect Mahomes to do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) A prospect that is not flawed is a sure fire franchise guy. And I just spelled out why waiting for one is idiotic. And no, I didn't just post players I liked. Nice spin. Only the last 2 drafts. I never looked that closely at the 2014 or 2015 draft class. We already had EJ in 2014 so I knew we wouldn't take one and in 2015 the top guys were out of reach and Lynch was a "whatever" prospect. oh, Jeff...what are we to do with you? While you seem like a cool dude and I enjoy the passion you put on display night in and night out, I know that some people just like hearing themselves talk, and I'm starting to wonder if perhaps you just get more enjoyment out of being combative for combative sake. Edited May 17, 2017 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 You used the benefit of hindsight and posted only guys that have good reputations today. No one believes that your top 2 QBs in 2016 were Wentz and Dak. In 2014 you liked the 4th and 5th guys picked but not the top 3? Hmmm.... It's not waiting for sure fire prospects. Say what you want about Kiper but he has 4 guys now ahead of Trubisky who went 2. Those guys, on paper, are less flawed in his opinion. You can get better value in a deeper class. He certainly is all in on Mahomes. I expect Mahomes to do well. You only have to believe my board from 2017. My 2016 draft board was not shared here and who cares. Kiper sucks. oh, Jeff...what are we to do with you? While you seem like a cool dude and I enjoy the passion you put on display night in and night out, I know that some people just like hearing themselves talk, and I'm starting to wonder if perhaps you just get more enjoyment out of being combative for combative sake. No, I am tired of hearing stupid statements like let's wait for a sure fire guy or a QB with no flaws. It gets me angry because I hate people defending the Bills inaction and inability to fly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Thank you Buckey Brooks! It is past time someone in the media tell the truth. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000809136/article/darnold-rosen-allen-no-surefire-franchise-qbs-in-next-wave This article is 100% spot on. I remember leading up to the draft, and after, Phil Savage, "The Godfather" Gil Brandt etal were saying it is folly to wait until next year for your QB And its folly to say "next years class is better". Every year after the draft fans are clamoring for this or that QB and then come a few weeks for the draft, they have fallen, EVERY year this happens. I am also sick of saying a 5th rounder can't be a franchise QB then someone throws out a bunch of bull **** stats. Stats can be found and modified in any way you want. I for one don't care about the 18' draft or any QB in it right now (although I have a good feeling about one myself). I want the 2017 NFL season to play out and see what this Bills team, under this staff has. Then after its all over, THEN start thinking if we need a QB, RB, LB or whatever. Keep dreaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 People talk about their draft boards. Really? Do people actually scout college players? For the QB position especially, do you do private interviews with candidates? Find out what their leadership qualities are? Put them in front of a white board to diagram plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Thank you Buckey Brooks! It is past time someone in the media tell the truth. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000809136/article/darnold-rosen-allen-no-surefire-franchise-qbs-in-next-wave This article is 100% spot on. I remember leading up to the draft, and after, Phil Savage, "The Godfather" Gil Brandt etal were saying it is folly to wait until next year for your QB And its folly to say "next years class is better". Every year after the draft fans are clamoring for this or that QB and then come a few weeks for the draft, they have fallen, EVERY year this happens. I am also sick of saying a 5th rounder can't be a franchise QB then someone throws out a bunch of bull **** stats. Stats can be found and modified in any way you want. I for one don't care about the 18' draft or any QB in it right now (although I have a good feeling about one myself). I want the 2017 NFL season to play out and see what this Bills team, under this staff has. Then after its all over, THEN start thinking if we need a QB, RB, LB or whatever. For the most part I understand this and generally agree with it because every year a team "finds" a good to great QB that was not projected to be a team's solution to the QB mystery. However, I also have come to firmly believe coaching has a great deal to do with those QBs that make the transition successfully vs. constantly searching for a an "answer" to the QB problem, is like dropping a dollar in hopes of winning the lottery. So, to that end - while Peterman may just be a No. 2 for life, it's possible with good coaching he fits the style of Offense for the Bills need at this time in their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) You only have to believe my board from 2017. My 2016 draft board was not shared here and who cares. Kiper sucks. No, I am tired of hearing stupid statements like let's wait for a sure fire guy or a QB with no flaws. It gets me angry because I hate people defending the Bills inaction and inability to fly right. First off, the Bills drafted QBs in 2016 and 2017- one of which was said to have more NFL attributes than all of the top guys selected...So you can't fault them for not trying in recent years...Second, there is no such thing as a sure fire guy, but rather prospect that show more consistent traits for success...but it's all an educated guess...For all we know Peterman could be the next Prescott- and then you would have been pissed off for nothing. Edited May 17, 2017 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 You only have to believe my board from 2017. My 2016 draft board was not shared here and who cares. Kiper sucks. So you conveniently look back and say that we should have taken the 2 guys that ended up best? We should have taken Brady in 2000 too (but you already knew that by the 2003 season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 First off, the Bills drafted QBs in 2016 and 2017- one of which was said to have more NFL attributes than all of the top guys selected...Second, there is no such thing as a sure fire guy, but rather prospect that show more consistent traits for success...but it's all an educated guess. Well, many on this board told me that QB's with no flaws would be passing their way into our hearts in 2018. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Well, many on this board told me that QB's with no flaws would be passing their way into our hearts in 2018. Stay tuned. Indeed I will...as well as looking forward to your analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 So you conveniently look back and say that we should have taken the 2 guys that ended up best? We should have taken Brady in 2000 too (but you already knew that by the 2003 season). The point of my post was to identify sure fire guys. And there has been only Andrew Luck. Some might add RG3, Winston(although he was not treated as sure fire by talking heads), and Mariotta (who also was questioned by pundits). So let's focus on the original point. There are very few sure fire guys and if you want one you need the 1st pick or 2nd pick in the draft. Indeed I will...as well as looking forward to your analysis. Yes, Rosen will be a fun scouting journey! The Rosen One.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 The point of my post was to identify sure fire guys. And there has been only Andrew Luck. Some might add RG3, Winston(although he was not treated as sure fire by talking heads), and Mariotta (who also was questioned by pundits). So let's focus on the original point. There are very few sure fire guys and if you want one you need the 1st pick or 2nd pick in the draft. Have you been on this board? People said don't draft Trubisky or Mahomes or Watson because we need to wait for a sure fire guy. No the above mentioned are not worthy of top 10 picks by many, including the Bills . You disagree that's your opinion. Your crusade against the Bills moving forward, because of their past (this is a new organization) is tiresome. They have not said they won't take anything other than a flawless QB. They took Peterman this year, Jones last. They are positioning for one next year if TT doesn't pan out this year. Give it a rest and stop with the Sean the Wrestler crap and your personality analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 The point of my post was to identify sure fire guys. And there has been only Andrew Luck. Some might add RG3, Winston(although he was not treated as sure fire by talking heads), and Mariotta (who also was questioned by pundits). So let's focus on the original point. There are very few sure fire guys and if you want one you need the 1st pick or 2nd pick in the draft. Yes, Rosen will be a fun scouting journey! The Rosen One.. You do need a top 3 pick normally for the safest prospects. They are about 50% over the last 15 years and it's significantly higher than pick 4 - UDFA. That's why the 2nd 1st in 2018 is key. If some of these guys emerge like Darnold, Allen and/or Rosen we have the ammo to go up. There are some teams that appear bad (49ers, Jets) that will be going QB. There are some teams that appear bad (Bears, Rams) that probably aren't. Maybe the Rams do but they paid a hefty price to give Goff 20 total starts (or whatever). The order always changes too. We just need the right teams to be up there and can get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Well, many on this board told me that QB's with no flaws would be passing their way into our hearts in 2018. Stay tuned. Wow, who EXACTLY told you that? Please do tell..... They should be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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