Worried About the Scout Vacancies- Big Hole!

[Wayne Arnold]

I can't sleep at night I'm so worried about our scout vacancies! Please help!

[stuvian]

Between indeed and monster and Craigslist I bet we can round up 17 guys again

so true, Tom Modrak did all his scouting from his computer

[Dr. K]

Somehow the idea that the Bills just fired their entire scouting staff (17 people except for two in personnel) does not seem concerning to most people but I am worried that it is a huge deal, a huge hole.

When has a team fired their entire scouting staff?

You can't just out source college and pro scouts to India or the Philippines (for example). A team needs a trusted network of them, people that have relationships with the coach, GM and other team officials. Trusted scouts are the worker bees that help build a successful team's foundation.

Most likely McD and the Beane have relationships and connections to some Scouts and will succeed in bringing them to the Bills- but it will not be enough.

I know that the previous scouts should be accountable in part for the lack of the team's success.

But what the heck are they going to do next year? Rely on Mayock, McShay and Walter Football?

This is a big deal!

I for one have thought from I first heard they did it that firing the scouting staff was both a very arrogant and a very dumb move.

[Just Joshin']

Are you worried there a few rugby scouts available?

[Kirby Jackson]

You are making an assumption that they wanted Monos. If they wanted Monos he would still be a Bill.

I'm not at all. He's an example. They could have protected anyone. There was no upside.

[psuscott16]

[Bronxbomber21]

Not worried at all..as he said once he was hired a sleuth of unemployed football potentials/ talent called him.

 

I personally would bring back Monos. I like the way he presents himself and love his eye for talent.

 

I was just thinking the samething. I wonder if Beane likes Monos enough to bring him back.

[Bill_with_it]

I'm not at all. He's an example. They could have protected anyone. There was no upside.

You cant say there was no upside. You have zero knowledge of what Monos was doing or any of the scouts for that matter. Collectively they were not meeting Terry Pegulas expectations (the only ones that matter) and collectively they were let go.

[Kirby Jackson]

You cant say there was no upside. You have zero knowledge of what Monos was doing or any of the scouts for that matter. Collectively they were not meeting Terry Pegulas expectations (the only ones that matter) and collectively they were let go.

You aren't following the thread. They had control over whoever stayed and whoever went. They relinquished that control. It is as simple as that. It may not matter but in no world is giving up the power a good idea. You need to understand the situation. Edited May 14, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[folz]

Excellent, well-informed posts Yolo! The big takeaways imo are:

 

It's common to fire the whole FO when the GM is changed, if the new GM is coming from the outside. The reason is that it's likely there will be whole different structure and way if doing things. Though it may seem like you could just keep some of the guys, it's actually easier to bring in guys who either already know your way or you can train your way right out of the gate.

 

So many people have wanted a house-cleaning, well, this is what it looks like. It's not unprecedented and the above reasoning makes a lot of sense.

 

As far as hiring the new personnel, the most important thing right now is Director of College Scouting and Director of player personnel .

@insidetheleague
2 names I'm hearing that could emerge as Dir of Player Personnel for #Bills: #Dolphins DPP Joe Schoen and #Panthers Pro Director Mark Koncz.

 

Couldn't agree more. If you get two really solid guys to fill those roles, either via promotion or whatever, then you also open up a whole other pool

of scouting candidates that have ties to those two guys. On top of the ties that Beane and McD have.

 

I put this in another thread about the FO buildout but here's a link to FO movement since Jan. Not sure if TJ McCreight is on there yet, he's the Director of College Scouting for Indy. Colts just fired whole FO after the draft (besides new GM Ballard who got there pre-draft).
http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/front-office/2017/05/01/dan-hatmans-2017-nfl-scout-movement-tracker/

 

So according to that link (from May 1st), there are (not counting the guys the Bills fired) about 25 guys who were in an NFL front office/scouting dept. last year that are currently available. There may also be qualified guys who did not have a job last year for whatever reason (timing, etc.), but have NFL experience. There may be young guys, former players, etc. that Beane, MCD, or the new Directors of Pro & College Scouting (once hired) know that they think are ready to become scouts. There may be guys outside the NFL (that work for these scouting firms, etc.) that could be options. And there is the option of giving promotions to guys currently on other teams that are ready to take the next step (hopefully like Beane and McD are). Not to mention that Beane said he has already had a lot of people contact him about wanting to come to Buffalo to work for him. That should all be a big enough pool to find 15-20 qualified people.

[Bill_with_it]

You aren't following the thread. They had control over whoever stayed and whoever went. They relinquished that control. It is as simple as that. It may not matter but in no world is giving up the power a good idea. You need to understand the situation.

You fail to understand the situation, yet I am very suprised as to how. First you admit "they had control over who stayed and who went". Yet you are still in confusion as if these people were still wanted at OBS. If they were wanted as employees they would be here. Its very clear by their release they were not wanted as employees. Most employers dont fire employees that they want to keep.

[Kirby Jackson]

You fail to understand the situation, yet I am very suprised as to how. First you admit "they had control over who stayed and who went". Yet you are still in confusion as if these people were still wanted at OBS. If they were wanted as employees they would be here. Its very clear by their release they were not wanted as employees. Most employers dont fire employees that they want to keep.

I'm not even a little confused. There was no upside to how they handled it. It may not matter but they did it the wrong way.

[oldmanfan]

I'm not even a little confused. There was no upside to how they handled it. It may not matter but they did it the wrong way.

No they didn't. They were moving on and did not prolong the situation.

[NoSaint]

You fail to understand the situation, yet I am very suprised as to how. First you admit "they had control over who stayed and who went". Yet you are still in confusion as if these people were still wanted at OBS. If they were wanted as employees they would be here. Its very clear by their release they were not wanted as employees. Most employers dont fire employees that they want to keep.

The thing he's arguing that you are missing is that he wants the GM to make that call and not the owner.

 

Is there a reason that you would rather have pegula make that call before interviewing any candidates?

Edited May 14, 2017 by NoSaint

[Buddo]

I'm with Kirby on this one. Firstly, for all people have complained about all sorts of things over the years, the ability of the FO to find guys , especially in FA and the waiver wire, who haven't cost much, yet have made good contributions, has never really been an issue. The people responsible for that side of things, were fired, alongside the rest.

 

Makes no sense to me.

 

It seems obvious that the Pegulas decided to give the new GM, a 'clean slate', but was it necessary to do so?

 

Seems as though it's the norm in the NFL, to get rid of everything, and start again, even when there are parts that are working well. Certainly in respect to coaching and FO hiring and firing.

[Bill_with_it]

I'm not even a little confused. There was no upside to how they handled it. It may not matter but they did it the wrong way.

You seemed to be confused; thinking that a) they need fired employees back

Or

B) they mistakenly fired someone that they intended to keep

Its more likely you didn't want to see some of these people fired. Thats fine.

However, your opinion doesnt mean that Terry and Kim wanted to keep any of the people they fired.

To the contrary, these people are wealthy buisness owners, they know exactly who they intended to fire and did just that.

 

You are making a rather large commotion about nothing.

The thing he's arguing that you are missing is that he wants the GM to make that call and not the owner.

 

Is there a reason that you would rather have pegula make that call before interviewing any candidates?

I didn't miss that at all. They are the owners of the team. They can and will make any decisions that they wish.

Just because the fans werent saturated with the thought process or privy as to why doesnt make it less of an intelligent decision that will payoff in the longrun.

[BringBackOrton]

You seemed to be confused; thinking that a) they need fired employees back

Or

B) they mistakenly fired someone that they intended to keep

Its more likely you didn't want to see some of these people fired. Thats fine.

However, your opinion doesnt mean that Terry and Kim wanted to keep any of the people they fired.

To the contrary, these people are wealthy buisness owners, they know exactly who they intended to fire and did just that.

 

You are making a rather large commotion about nothing.

I didn't miss that at all. They are the owners of the team. They can and will make any decisions that they wish.

Just because the fans werent saturated with the thought process or privy as to why doesnt make it less of an intelligent decision that will payoff in the longrun.

Yes, because the owners have made nothing but intelligent decisions using their "process." Just ask Marrone, Whaley and Rex?

[bigK14094]

Its hard to believe that scouts are totally "plug and play" I think the lack of a group of scouts that have worked with the management will dog the Bills for several years. Fielding a capable team of scouts is also critical, as they set the table for the draft....and, I can hear the words now...." not bad for our first draft"///////ugh, been there done that.....heard that line before.

[NoSaint]

You seemed to be confused; thinking that a) they need fired employees back

Or

B) they mistakenly fired someone that they intended to keep

Its more likely you didn't want to see some of these people fired. Thats fine.

However, your opinion doesnt mean that Terry and Kim wanted to keep any of the people they fired.

To the contrary, these people are wealthy buisness owners, they know exactly who they intended to fire and did just that.

 

You are making a rather large commotion about nothing.

I didn't miss that at all. They are the owners of the team. They can and will make any decisions that they wish.

Just because the fans werent saturated with the thought process or privy as to why doesnt make it less of an intelligent decision that will payoff in the longrun.

So the next obvious question is besides "they own the team" is there a reason that the owners should be choosing who is (or in this case is not) scouting players, instead of leaving that to the GM to decide upon?

[Bill_with_it]

So the next obvious question is besides "they own the team" is there a reason that the owners should be choosing who is (or in this case is not) scouting players, instead of leaving that to the GM to decide upon?

So the next answer Im going to provide, is do you 100% believe this decision was made in a vaccum without outside guidance?

 

I keep saying just because the random fan isnt saturated in the decision making process doesnt mean it lacked rational intelligent NFL thought (nfl advisory committee) or mean that it will lack effectiveness.

Yes, because the owners have made nothing but intelligent decisions using their "process." Just ask Marrone, Whaley and Rex?

Marrones contract included a clause before Pegulas owned the team.

Whaley wasnt good at his job nor was Rex. The process wasnt flawed.