Chuck Wagon Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 Basically, people who can talk themselves into this team making the playoffs regardless of what's on the roster (and are willing to give the franchise the benefit of the doubt time and time again) and those who believe it's past the point of putting too much faith in this team unless they find and develop a franchise QB. At least that's how I see it, maybe that's a little too blunt or dismissive.
NewEra Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 Sounds about right. I'm in both boats I suppose. More than almost anything in this world, I want the Bills to win a super bowl. Not make a super bowl, we've seen that and my memories are tainted because we lost all 4. It still hurts. Every day. I doubt the pain goes away until we win one. That being said, I view landing a stud qb to be the easiest way back to the big game. Having a great coach not far behind. Building a great defense next up. I'd like to see a combination of all 3. If we can build an elite D led by a great coach, we have a shot at winning a SB with a decent qb. But which is more probable? Building an elite D or landing a great qb? History suggests landing a great QB is easier than building an elite defense capable of winning a SB with a decent QB. Over the years, I haven't seen too many arguements favoring a tank job...up until this year. Why this year? We lost 2 of our best players from last season in Gilmore and Z Brown. We lost Gillislee, Woods, both starting safeties, some DL depth and are switching schemes again with new offensive and defensive coordinators. Our schedule, at the moment, looks to be brutal. We have a brand new FO and don't even have a scouting dept yet. Our best player can't stay healthy and our QB plays very conservative even though our defense was a sieve last year. We really only had one bright spot last season, which was our running game. Sounds like the makings of a down year. Then to look at the QB prospects in next years draft and consider the fact that we traded down to acquire another 1st rd pick next year, it makes sense to think that we're set up to get the best qb in next years draft. Whether or not Darnold, Allen, Rosen or any other QB becomes the next best thing is a complete unknown at this point.....but even an unknown still gives me more hope for greatness than Tyrod Taylor. Emphasis on greatness. TT is a decent QB and might improve in the new offense, which might elevate him to being good or even very good. Imo, the chances of him being very good is low. The likelihood of one of the QBs in next years draft being very good is much higher than tyrod becoming very good. The OP stated that some Bills fans are looking to tank 3-4 years in order to build up the team. That would be a disaster imo. Tanking 1 season in a supposedly loaded qb class, I can live with. Not 3-4 years. I don't even see that as a remote possibility with McDermott leading the charge. Tanking one season to see what he has in our roster and possibly acquiring the team changing qb does make some sense to me. I doubt it happens, but I can understand why someone would be on board with the decision. Having players like Shady and Kyle on the roster this year make a tank unlikely (unless they get hurt and then a tank is inevitable imo). In summation, we haven't had a good QB and HC since Jimbo and Marv. They are the 2 most important ingredients in building a true contender. Until we have one or both, our chances of being a contender is nil. McD is still an unknown, but I think our HC arrow is pointing upwards (can't be worse than Rex). The QB arrow is right where it has been for the past few years and not much higher than it's been in the last 20 years. I believe those fans that want to win now, don't care as much about winning the SB as they do being happy next season. Those that are dead set on a QB have a super bowl or bust philosophy. I'm more along the lines of super bowl or bust but would be happy to watch us compete for a playoff spot next season and end the drought. While I want that Lombardi and the QB that can lead us there, I didn't want to use a 1st rd pick on a qb this year. I felt that way because I wasn't a big fan of the QBs in this draft after scouting them. Next years QBs could end up just like this years, without a consensus #1 qb. A qb draft class that the browns, niners and jets all passed on a qb while in dire need of one. It'll be an interesting college football season to see how these QBs pan out and see if a tank would've benefitted our team. Sorry for the wall of text and the random thoughts interjected everywhere. Time to head to work. Go Bills!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 Also, can we stop trying to put everyone in 2 categories all the time? It's a huge reason why our country is so disjointed.
Mark80 Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) Super Bowl or bust. This team was built to be as good as possible without a QB but you can't win in the NFL without a QB. I'm not interested in a .500 team. Tyrod is a QB that gets you to .500. A lot of people hope that MAYBE we can squeak into the playoffs and I hear some people say well you can't win the Super Bowl without first making the playoffs. But there is a big difference between building a winning franchise that will compete for championships year in and year out or simply building a team that maybe if the cards fall correctly will get a wild card and then be one and done. I'd mortgage 3-4 seasons of rebuilding rather than live through another 20 years of mediocrity. People need to wake up and realize that just because we are Buffalo doesn't mean we don't deserve nice things. We need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and thinking that a mediocre team is all we deserve. Demand better You are not interested in a .500 team but you are still here after 17 years of it? Seems to me that you are pretty interested in a .500 team. Me, I'm a Bills fan and I typically support whoever is running the show and all the players until they are no longer a part of the team (or some major transgression - Like Preston Brown's complete inability to tackle as a MLB). I'm optimistic till the end (usually mid to late November). Football is entertainment and I am entertained even if we don't win the SB. I'm entertained watching the games, watching the draft, talking to friends and family about them, listening to WGR, reading this site, reading articles, watching prospects youtube videos, etc.. We don't need to win a SB for me to be entertained, it's just the icing on top. Edited May 12, 2017 by Mark80
flomoe Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 1. Just WIN 2. Continue to WIN year after year 3. STOP SUCKING
nucci Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 No one wants to win more and find the right QB then 1st time HC McD and GM Beane. Give them the full 5 years. I really think these two are the real deal. Another key is to get a good scouting staff. They know that as well. what if we are an awful team and show no improvement after 3 years?
The Frankish Reich Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 I look at it like Pro-Bills and Pro-Winning. Pro-Bills folks put their emphasis on loving the Bills in their current incarnation at all times, virtually no matter what. Pro-Winning put their emphasis on the Bills winning even if it would mean major change to the current incarnation. Do the Pro-Bills group want to see them win, of course, but they put more emphasis on their love for the team. Do the Pro-Winning people love the Bills, of course, but they put more emphasis on seeing them become a winner. That's probably as good a summation as any. So many of the threads here eventually arrive at that destination: "Keep Tyrod, maybe get lucky and make the playoffs in the next couple years" vs. "Go for the full rebuild, maybe have a Super Bowl contender by 2020 (2021-22?)." After 17 years of the former model not working, I'm tending strongly toward the latter. But I'll admit it: there's no convincing people of the opposite mindset. Nothing wrong with that, but it does make for some tedious conversations.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 Also, can we stop trying to put everyone in 2 categories all the time? It's a huge reason why our country is so disjointed. 100%! Here is a couple more camps. There are those who have some perspective and realize that this is entertainment and what they say has no bearing on the outcome. And, those who its all about them. I'm sure there are others, but that's a couple that sticks out to me.
K D Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 You are not interested in a .500 team but you are still here after 17 years of it? Seems to me that you are pretty interested in a .500 team. Me, I'm a Bills fan and I typically support whoever is running the show and all the players until they are no longer a part of the team (or some major transgression - Like Preston Brown's complete inability to tackle as a MLB). I'm optimistic till the end (usually mid to late November). Football is entertainment and I am entertained even if we don't win the SB. I'm entertained watching the games, watching the draft, talking to friends and family about them, listening to WGR, reading this site, reading articles, watching prospects youtube videos, etc.. We don't need to win a SB for me to be entertained, it's just the icing on top. can't help it. when you are born 30 min from the stadium you have to be a fan. it's more than football to people that live here. it's a representation of us. it pains me to say I'm from Buffalo because the first thing out of someone's mouth after that is oh no I'm sorry to hear that, you must be a Bills fan! you are instantly judged as a person based on the national view that Buffalo is a joke of a city with crappy sports teams. how great would it be to be able to proudly say I'm from Buffalo! enough of this mediocrity, let's build something great
Dorkington Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 I look at it like Pro-Bills and Pro-Winning. Pro-Bills folks put their emphasis on loving the Bills in their current incarnation at all times, virtually no matter what. Pro-Winning put their emphasis on the Bills winning even if it would mean major change to the current incarnation. Do the Pro-Bills group want to see them win, of course, but they put more emphasis on their love for the team. Do the Pro-Winning people love the Bills, of course, but they put more emphasis on seeing them become a winner. This is also how I see it. With the 'Pro-Win' folks divided on if you can only win with a top 5 QB or not (and then those people divided on if that's easy to do or not)
transient Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 Also, can we stop trying to put everyone in 2 categories all the time? It's a huge reason why our country is so disjointed. There are two types of people in this world, the people that think like me and the people that are wrong. The people that think like me includes me and... nope, just me. The people that are wrong includes everybody else. Things I think are right because I thought them, and they make sense to me. Sometimes other people can be right, when they think like me. Most of the time, however, they are wrong. Come to think of it, I haven't always been right... like the time I thought the $5 earned in a dare would totally make up for any discomfort that might occur from peeing on an electric fence... or the, unfortunately numerous, times I've thought the potential plusses of the companionship of crazy women would make up for the more obvious minuses... or the numerous times I've thought the Bills or Sabres were on the right track only to re-live the pain of peeing on an electric fence. Come to think of it, there are two types of people in this world, those who are wrong, and those who were wrong and will soon be again.
JohnC Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 This type of topic is coming up more and more. It's stupid and childish. If you can't handle different points of view then that's your problem. It's getting tiresome and contributes nothing of value. My recommendation: Grow up!
jr1 Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 none of us have any sway with team management so there's no point in fighting or taking the board too seriously
hondo in seattle Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 I think I would settle for making the playoffs before I die... 17 years no playoffs and counting... Color me selfish if you will.... I empathize. I have one of those shirts that says "Just one before I die." Here in Seattle, few can decipher it but any Bills fan would know immediately what we're talking about. I used to think like this: I will probably live - given family genetics, health factors, etc. - about 32 more years. Probability says I should witness one Bills Super Bowl win before I die. But that's assuming each year each team has a 1-in-32 chance of winning and that's clearly not accurate. The Bills are obviously cursed and their odds are longer. So maybe I should be more realistic and just ask for one playoff appearance before I die.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 Also, can we stop trying to put everyone in 2 categories all the time? It's a huge reason why our country is so disjointed.Oh, take it to PPP C.Biscuit!!!!
4_kidd_4 Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 Also, can we stop trying to put everyone in 2 categories all the time? It's a huge reason why our country is so disjointed. *slowclap*
boyst Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 Also, can we stop trying to put everyone in 2 categories all the time? It's a huge reason why our country is so disjointed.right. The irony is if I just say right it could trigger someone. So, correct. There are more than two ideologies. There are more than enough unique ideas. There is not enough maturity and restraint to withhold them. Especially initially. Too often now we jump at the first tremble of gossip. Too often we are wrong. There are very few things in this world that are definitively a pair or only two options and it is not just right or wrong. The only thing I can say that is exclusive as the only known truth is that tom Brady is a piece of **** and loves men. Because !@#$ new england
xxxxxxxx Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 I would add a third: fans who want to watch fun, interesting football. Teams can win, while being ugly and boring, which is bad for the sport overall. Teams can loose and still be interesting and fun, to watch which is good for a sport overall. I have no problem watching a fun, interesting Bills team loose a game, provided that the game is close and watchable. I think its silly to put too much emphasis on winning, and that those who are obsessed with it are pretty good at ruining sports.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 100%! Here is a couple more camps. There are those who have some perspective and realize that this is entertainment and what they say has no bearing on the outcome. And, those who its all about them. I'm sure there are others, but that's a couple that sticks out to me. Well said. I used to be the biggest homer and try to make the best out of every Bills move. Now, I try to view it more objectively. I can't stand the miserable fans and media, Jerry Sullivan, who complain about everything. At the same point, the fans who apologize for everything Bills related. I love the Bills but mostly it's because they represent Buffalo. But objectively looking, we are a flawed franchise. I love the Pegulas but they have struggle as owners. I believe in them but there is reason to doubt them right now. I want to believe in SMD but it seems like it was given an insane amount of power. But that said, I would probably cry or pee my pants if the Bills ever make the playoffs again. And believe me, I really want to pee my pants! right. The irony is if I just say right it could trigger someone. So, correct. There are more than two ideologies. There are more than enough unique ideas. There is not enough maturity and restraint to withhold them. Especially initially. Too often now we jump at the first tremble of gossip. Too often we are wrong. There are very few things in this world that are definitively a pair or only two options and it is not just right or wrong. The only thing I can say that is exclusive as the only known truth is that tom Brady is a piece of **** and loves men. Because !@#$ new england I've never agreed with you more. Good post.
boyst Posted May 12, 2017 Posted May 12, 2017 Well said. I used to be the biggest homer and try to make the best out of every Bills move. Now, I try to view it more objectively. I can't stand the miserable fans and media, Jerry Sullivan, who complain about everything. At the same point, the fans who apologize for everything Bills related. I love the Bills but mostly it's because they represent Buffalo. But objectively looking, we are a flawed franchise. I love the Pegulas but they have struggle as owners. I believe in them but there is reason to doubt them right now. I want to believe in SMD but it seems like it was given an insane amount of power. But that said, I would probably cry or pee my pants if the Bills ever make the playoffs again. And believe me, I really want to pee my pants! I've never agreed with you more. Good post. thanks. Even the news has fallen victim to this. No longer do facts support facts but facts support emotions so that emotions support facts and when you have #feelings you end up offending someone. And when you offend someone you and up having to not only avoid communication but it will always void the facts.
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