Carucci says the housecleaning isn't finished

[beerme1]

I'm not a Brandon fan or apologist, and to me he has the aura of a used car salesman.

 

Having said that, wasn't Brandon the one responsible for negotiating the poison pill provisions into the last lease agreement that made it prohibitive to move the team out of Buffalo?

 

I get what you mean but I wonder if selling used cars is actually more difficult than new nowadays. He makes me think of Herb Tarlek so I definitely get where you're coming from

[PlayoffsPlease]

See the two posts above yours.

 

We as bills fans and a community support our team becaus we are die hards, not because Brandon is a marketing wizard.

 

What did he do? Sold some games to Toronto to build fan base (largely seen as a fail). Branched out to Rochester to extend fan base. Cool bro, I don't think he's a wizard. I also have no problem with him being kept on business side of Pegula sports a season long as he doesn't make any operational calls

I think we saw the extent of his marketing genius with his complete failure to sell tickets in one of North America's largest cities. If he was even competent let alone a genius, he would have sold out games in Toronto.

[CommonCents]

Better have the house cleaned before company arrives or momma going to be mad.

[May Day 10]

I think we saw the extent of his marketing genius with his complete failure to sell tickets in one of North America's largest cities. If he was even competent let alone a genius, he would have sold out games in Toronto.

My understanding:

As far as the bills were concerned, it was a lump sum money deal. They basically sold the games to rogers for $76 million (the second contract was less and not disclosed). The pricing, most of the marketing, selling of tickets and production fell onto rogers

[Taro T]

That was likely Littman and Wilson who allowed that moreso than Brandon sliding it in there under his bosses' noses, devaluing the team for a multi-year window.

 

And if Mr Wilson had lived a few more years, the terms of that NRA could have been a disaster for Buffalo's hold on an NFL team.

 

Prove it. Brandon was the lead negotiator with the county so you need evidence that says it wasn't his call. Also explain how the NRA becomes a disaster for Buffalo keeping the Bills? The Bills franchise had vultures circling it with the blessing of the NFL's wealthy owners. Only the Pegulas crazy bid saved them. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

Wait a second. Are you trying to say that Brandon put in the "poison pill" on his own and not at the Wilsons' urging?

 

It was very well known that Wilson wanted the team to stay in Buffalo. He considered the community his second home.

[K-9]

I think we saw the extent of his marketing genius with his complete failure to sell tickets in one of North America's largest cities. If he was even competent let alone a genius, he would have sold out games in Toronto.

Ridiculous. He sold the Toronto package to Rogers and collected the ENTIRE amount of $78m (ca) for the deal before a single game was played in Toronto, which set a record for gate revenue for a single event in that venue. That amount was also more than their total operating revenue when the deal was struck. The marketing and selling of the event was in the purview of the Rogers group alone. Not his fault that they totally underestimated the interest a losing team would bring to their market. Perhaps they should have consulted him on successful marketing strategies.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Wait a second. Are you trying to say that Brandon put in the "poison pill" on his own and not at the Wilsons' urging?

 

It was very well known that Wilson wanted the team to stay in Buffalo. He considered the community his second home.

Brandon was the lead negotiator. That is fact. You can imagine anyone suggesting the poison pill clause to him. Wilson, Brandon's mom, a bum on the street. It's all conjuncture. All a desperate attempt to diminish a significant and positive contribution Brandon made because of spite.

[Taro T]

Brandon was the lead negotiator. That is fact. You can imagine anyone suggesting the poison pill clause to him. Wilson, Brandon's mom, a bum on the street. It's all conjuncture. All a desperate attempt to diminish a significant and positive contribution Brandon made because of spite.

Gee, no conjecture in the bolded is there?

[PromoTheRobot]

Gee, no conjecture in the bolded is there?

So why not share the facts with us, Taro?

 

By the way, it's not conjecture when you're contempt for Brandon is on full display.

Edited May 16, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[oldmanfan]

 

Wait a second. Are you trying to say that Brandon put in the "poison pill" on his own and not at the Wilsons' urging?

 

It was very well known that Wilson wanted the team to stay in Buffalo. He considered the community his second home.

Yes Ralph wanted it. And his executive staff including Brandon negotiated and implemented it. That is what executives do. Not just marketing as people continue to insist.

[Taro T]

So why not share the facts with us, Taro?

By the way, it's not conjecture when you're contempt for Brandon is on full display.

 

What are these 'facts' to which you are referring?

 

The only fact that seems to be apparent is that you apparently have reading comprehension issues, not the least of which is an inability to differentiate different points from different authors. You have accused me of being spiteful of Russ Brandon apparently due to his treatment of my friends. Do you care to provide any support for those accusations?

 

You also in your previous few posts appear to be championing the idea that Russ Brandon put the "poison pill" in the last lease on his own volition and against the Wilsons' best interest. This is a ludicrous position. If this isn't your position, could you please clarifiy how you reconcile Russ' apparent complete authority on negotiating in the Wilsons best interest AND putting in a clause that should Ralph pass away while the lease was still in the 1st couple of years that would lower the value of his estate UNLESS that is WHAT THE WILSONS WANTED HIM TO DO?

 

As to my views on Russ Brandon, I have made them abundently clear through the years. I believe he should have no input on football, hockey, or lacrosse matters and that as a fan I want those departments to have the ability to overrule the business side of things rather than the opposite. Should that be the case, I have no problem with Brandon continuing his role in PSE & subsidiaries. I been VERY consistent in that opinion through the years.

 

Playing a home hockey game in NYC shows that business still takes precedence over hockey. As that is the case, I'd prefer to see him out of that operation. I have also been consistent in that opinion through the years. I have no illusions nor expectations that it will happen as it looks like he makes money for the Pegulas. Again, this position has also been consistent.

 

 

 

Yes Ralph wanted it. And his executive staff including Brandon negotiated and implemented it. That is what executives do. Not just marketing as people continue to insist.

Exactly.

[PromoTheRobot]

Yes Ralph wanted it. And his executive staff including Brandon negotiated and implemented it. That is what executives do. Not just marketing as people continue to insist.

 

There is a difference between Ralph giving the poison pill clause word-for-word, and Ralph giving Brandon a request to do what he can to achieve that goal.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

What are these 'facts' to which you are referring?

 

The only fact that seems to be apparent is that you apparently have reading comprehension issues, not the least of which is an inability to differentiate different points from different authors. You have accused me of being spiteful of Russ Brandon apparently due to his treatment of my friends. Do you care to provide any support for those accusations?

 

You also in your previous few posts appear to be championing the idea that Russ Brandon put the "poison pill" in the last lease on his own volition and against the Wilsons' best interest. This is a ludicrous position. If this isn't your position, could you please clarifiy how you reconcile Russ' apparent complete authority on negotiating in the Wilsons best interest AND putting in a clause that should Ralph pass away while the lease was still in the 1st couple of years that would lower the value of his estate UNLESS that is WHAT THE WILSONS WANTED HIM TO DO?

 

As to my views on Russ Brandon, I have made them abundently clear through the years. I believe he should have no input on football, hockey, or lacrosse matters and that as a fan I want those departments to have the ability to overrule the business side of things rather than the opposite. Should that be the case, I have no problem with Brandon continuing his role in PSE & subsidiaries. I been VERY consistent in that opinion through the years.

 

Playing a home hockey game in NYC shows that business still takes precedence over hockey. As that is the case, I'd prefer to see him out of that operation. I have also been consistent in that opinion through the years. I have no illusions nor expectations that it will happen as it looks like he makes money for the Pegulas. Again, this position has also been consistent.

 

 

 

Exactly.

Your animus toward Russ was on display in a thread on SabreSpace where you and That Aud Smell were sharing stories of how awful Brandon treats friends of yours who work for him. Do you remember that thread? And I was saying being a dick boss doesn't make him incompetent.

 

Speaking of reading comprehension, pot meet kettle. I never said Brandon went against Wilson's wishes. He always did Ralph's bidding. That's why Ralph trusted him with the team when he became too feeble to manage it.

 

Of course he was fulfilling Wilson's wishes when the poison pill clause was inserted. But your argument is Brandon deserves no credit because he was just following orders. My argument was even if Wilson gave him the general order to make it harder to move the Bills after his passing, Russ had to come up with the terms that not only the county, but the NFL would accept, because the league signs off on any lease. And he succeeded.

 

And you continue to makes leaps of logic about things like the Winter Classic. You assume it was Brandon's call to play the game in New York. How do you know the NHL didn't want the game there? Did you forget Buffalo is hosting the IIHF World Championship at the same time? Maybe the NHL didn't want Winter Classic colliding with another major hockey event?

 

You speak out of both sides of your mouth. In one sentence you say you have no problem with Brandon keeping to his PSE duties. In the next you rail against him being responsible for some perceived slight even when you have no proof.

Edited May 16, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[Gordio]

Your animus toward Russ was on display in a thread on SabreSpace where you and That Aud Smell were sharing stories of how awful Brandon treats friends of yours who work for him. Do you remember that thread? And I was saying being a dick boss doesn't make him incompetent.

 

Speaking of reading comprehension, pot meet kettle. I never said Brandon went against Wilson's wishes. He always did Ralph's bidding. That's why Ralph trusted him with the team when he became too feeble to manage it.

 

Of course he was fulfilling Wilson's wishes when the poison pill clause was inserted. But your argument is Brandon deserves no credit because he was just following orders. My argument was even if Wilson gave him the general order to make it harder to move the Bills after his passing, Russ had to come up with the terms that not only the county, but the NFL would accept, because the league signs off on any lease. And he succeeded.

 

And you continue to makes leaps of logic about things like the Winter Classic. You assume it was Brandon's call to play the game in New York. How do you know the NHL didn't want the game there? Did you forget Buffalo is hosting the IIHF World Championship at the same time? Maybe the NHL didn't want Winter Classic colliding with another major hockey event?

 

You speak out of both sides of your mouth. In one sentence you say you have no problem with Brandon keeping to his PSE duties. In the next you rail against him being responsible for some perceived slight even when you have no proof.

 

You could be right, but why in God's earth is this considered a home game for Buffalo??? It is clearly in Ranger territory.

 

Yeah Brandon is a marketing genius. Know what else is good for Marketing. Putting a winning product on the field for once.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

You could be right, but why in God's earth is this considered a home game for Buffalo??? It is clearly in Ranger territory.

 

 

The Rangers contract with MSG stipulates they are heavily fined if they play any home game in any other venue than MSG. That's why.

 

 

 

Yeah Brandon is a marketing genius. Know what else is good for Marketing. Putting a winning product on the field for once.

 

Agreed. But why are we hanging this on Brandon when we don't want him involved in team matters?

Edited May 16, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[Gordio]

 

The Rangers contract with MSG stipulates they are heavily fined if they play any home game in any other venue than MSG. That's why.

 

 

Agreed. But why are we hanging this on Brandon when we don't want him involved in team matters?

 

 

Okay so why would the Sabres agree to this. If I was Pegula I would tell them we will play the game in Citifield but we are the away team or we will play them at the Ralph. Why do they have to be the Jackasses that play the Rangers in NYC but lose a home game? You honestly think the Blackhawks, or the Bruins or the Red Wings would agree to this?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Gordio

[Taro T]

Your animus toward Russ was on display in a thread on SabreSpace where you and That Aud Smell were sharing stories of how awful Brandon treats friends of yours who work for him. Do you remember that thread? And I was saying being a dick boss doesn't make him incompetent.

 

Speaking of reading comprehension, pot meet kettle. I never said Brandon went against Wilson's wishes. He always did Ralph's bidding. That's why Ralph trusted him with the team when he became too feeble to manage it.

 

Of course he was fulfilling Wilson's wishes when the poison pill clause was inserted. But your argument is Brandon deserves no credit because he was just following orders. My argument was even if Wilson gave him the general order to make it harder to move the Bills after his passing, Russ had to come up with the terms that not only the county, but the NFL would accept, because the league signs off on any lease. And he succeeded.

 

And you continue to makes leaps of logic about things like the Winter Classic. You assume it was Brandon's call to play the game in New York. How do you know the NHL didn't want the game there? Did you forget Buffalo is hosting the IIHF World Championship at the same time? Maybe the NHL didn't want Winter Classic colliding with another major hockey event?

 

You speak out of both sides of your mouth. In one sentence you say you have no problem with Brandon keeping to his PSE duties. In the next you rail against him being responsible for some perceived slight even when you have no proof.

 

Oh, where to start?

 

To the 1st bolded: please show me ANY post I made in that thread, or any other, that said I didn't like Brandon because of what he said to my friends. You've REPEATEDLY made that assertation and I have repeatedly asked you for support of it. You have yet to provide any. Once again, you are confusing who has said what. Apparently in an attempt to (falsely) demonstrate that you are the true supporter of Buffalo teams and all others are haters.

 

The the 2nd bolded: did you not state

Brandon was the lead negotiator. That is fact. You can imagine anyone suggesting the poison pill clause to him. Wilson, Brandon's mom, a bum on the street.

; and in response to MayDay 10 did you not state:

That was likely Littman and Wilson who allowed that moreso than Brandon sliding it in there under his bosses' noses, devaluing the team for a multi-year window.

 

And if Mr Wilson had lived a few more years, the terms of that NRA could have been a disaster for Buffalo's hold on an NFL team.

 

Prove it. Brandon was the lead negotiator with the county so you need evidence that says it wasn't his call. Also explain how the NRA becomes a disaster for Buffalo keeping the Bills? The Bills franchise had vultures circling it with the blessing of the NFL's wealthy owners. Only the Pegulas crazy bid saved them. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

. Our bad for assuming that when you said Brandon did something 100% on his own & the idea to do it could have come from anywhere that you actually meant he followed Ralph Wilson's wishes.

 

The the 3rd bolded: PLEASE show me ANY POST OF MINE that states that Brandon deserves NO CREDIT for the lease negotiation. Once again, you can't because you're making stuff up to argue against points that haven't been made. And ttbomk this is the 1st time that you have nuanced what your impression of Russ' work on the negotiations entailed.

 

To the 4th bolded: YOU continue to make assumptions. I stated that a business decision outweighed a hockey decision. You read more into that than what it was for whatever reason you might have. You then tried to come up with reasons WHY the business decision MIGHT have outweighed the hockey decision. Regardless of the rationale behind it, it was simply an example of Brandon Toronto series-ing the Sabres.

The Rangers contract with MSG stipulates they are heavily fined if they play any home game in any other venue than MSG. That's why.

 

 

 

Agreed. But why are we hanging this on Brandon when we don't want him involved in team matters?

And as Gordio states, WHY should the Sabres agree to give up a home game to meet the Rags needs? There don't appear to be any other chumps jumping on that offer. The business ($$$) side outweighed the hockey side on that call. And that stinks.

 

And to your last sentence: did you actually read what you wrote?

 

You actually asked why we are hanging a decision he was in position to make (giving up a home game) because we don't want him involved in those decisions. WTF?

[Coach Tuesday]

Littman had much more of a direct role in the lease renegotiations than Brandon did. I know that from someone who sat at the table.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I think the biggest issue is the old boys club of dudes who have been here for many years under ralph, and who remained under Pegula. Seems like a bunch of Brandon's buddies who have been promoted.

 

It's not necessarily on them that we were unsuccessful, but they've seemed to be a burden as we have a massive staff of executives and directors.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Ridiculous. He sold the Toronto package to Rogers and collected the ENTIRE amount of $78m (ca) for the deal before a single game was played in Toronto, which set a record for gate revenue for a single event in that venue. That amount was also more than their total operating revenue when the deal was struck. The marketing and selling of the event was in the purview of the Rogers group alone. Not his fault that they totally underestimated the interest a losing team would bring to their market. Perhaps they should have consulted him on successful marketing strategies.

 

That also caused a huge uptick in broker season tickets (which helps sell out games... but also drives revenue down as they'd negotiate pricing on big groups of seats). They only had 1 home preseason game for 5 years, which is usually a sunk cost for a ticket broker.