PFF: Tyrod Taylor #2 starting QB in AFCE

[GoBills808]

I don't know how you are taking my words and turning it into that? The Bills lost 6 games scoring 24 points while the rest of the AFC playoff teams lost 4 combined. That's the defense. GoBills was offering an explanation of a few of them that makes the defense look a little better.

 

Honest question, who was better the last 2 years the offense or the defense?

I am not trying to do that even if it comes across that way. I am simply saying that the defense was a much bigger problem than the offense. They all share in the wins and losses. If you are to put percentages as to why they finished where they did I would put it as such: coaching 60%, defense 25%, offense 10% and st 5%. That is obviously a dumbed down version but you get the point.

I would be close to agreeing with those percentages, personally. My contention is that it's convenient to simply categorize 'defense' and 'offense' for those who won't admit that our passing attack was and is holding the team back. In that light, I'd say the issues were 50% coaching, pass defense 7.5%, run defense 17.5%, run offense 0%, pass offense 20%, and special teams 5%. So yes, defense WAS a bigger issue than offense, but if you're into a closer look it might not be as easy to simply say 'Well the offense was fine and the defense sucked, fix the defense and leave the offense alone.'

[Crusher]

I don't know how you are taking my words and turning it into that? The Bills lost 6 games scoring 24 points while the rest of the AFC playoff teams lost 4 combined. That's the defense. GoBills was offering an explanation of a few of them that makes the defense look a little better.

 

Honest question, who was better the last 2 years the offense or the defense?

I am not trying to do that even if it comes across that way. I am simply saying that the defense was a much bigger problem than the offense. They all share in the wins and losses. If you are to put percentages as to why they finished where they did I would put it as such: coaching 60%, defense 25%, offense 10% and st 5%. That is obviously a dumbed down version but you get the point.

I wasn't directly responding to you. It was more of a general response to those that always want to tout the offense (Tyrod more specifically), and put the failures of the season on the defense. They had their bad moments, but they also had a large part in all our wins, and they made some plays to give the offense a chance in a few others.

 

And the offense has been better the last two years to answer your question. How much of that is a direct result of Taylor though when measured against his peers? I looked up what percentage of the team's offense the QB was responsible for on the other board, and it turned out that Taylor was only better than Osweiler in terms of total yards and total TD's. This basically shows that most other QB's had a bigger hand in their team's offensive production than Tyrod.

[section122]

The Taylor situation is a lot simpler for me than some of you are making. Until he can do something/anything presnap and routinely run a two minute offense the team should always be looking for his replacement. Sure, he does some nice things, protects the ball, he is highly likeable and entertaining BUT if he is playing with blinders on that is just not good enough.

 

I'm hopeful the new coaching staff takes a different approach with TT and he makes some strides towards becoming a more complete QB. In my opinion having a QB that offers nothing presnap and who is unable to run a two minute offense is a fatal flaw.

 

Very fair.

 

I am excited to see what TT can do this year. This is his last chance imo. 3 years of starting and we should know whether he can be the guy or not. I like the Dennison hire as someone who has worked with him in the past and am glad that the Bills helped TT through the draft with a WR and OL taken. I too would like to see the growth you describe.

 

I'm nervous about the end result of this season (final record) as I see a defense with a few major holes in it. I do feel confident that the Bills are set up to move on quickly if TT flames out this year with the 2 firsts next year so within a year the Bills should either have an answer at QB or a highly rated prospect going into next season.

[John from Riverside]

I wasn't directly responding to you. It was more of a general response to those that always want to tout the offense (Tyrod more specifically), and put the failures of the season on the defense. They had their bad moments, but they also had a large part in all our wins, and they made some plays to give the offense a chance in a few others.

 

And the offense has been better the last two years to answer your question. How much of that is a direct result of Taylor though when measured against his peers? I looked up what percentage of the team's offense the QB was responsible for on the other board, and it turned out that Taylor was only better than Osweiler in terms of total yards and total TD's. This basically shows that most other QB's had a bigger hand in their team's offensive production than Tyrod.

Actually...that is not correct either.....when talking about the offense its talking about the OFFENSE which includes the whole offensive unit....it is just YOU that throws in the TT thing...he is merely a spoke on a wheel.

[section122]

I wasn't directly responding to you. It was more of a general response to those that always want to tout the offense (Tyrod more specifically), and put the failures of the season on the defense. They had their bad moments, but they also had a large part in all our wins, and they made some plays to give the offense a chance in a few others.

 

And the offense has been better the last two years to answer your question. How much of that is a direct result of Taylor though when measured against his peers? I looked up what percentage of the team's offense the QB was responsible for on the other board, and it turned out that Taylor was only better than Osweiler in terms of total yards and total TD's. This basically shows that most other QB's had a bigger hand in their team's offensive production than Tyrod.

 

Could you elaborate on the bolded? Just on a cursory look for me:

 

TT finished with 23 TDs combined in 2016 which was more than Russel Wilson (22), Flacco (22), Bradford (20), Tannehil (20), Wentz(18), and Dalton (22) among others.

 

I would like to look at it if you can find it as I may be misunderstanding your point.

[Crusher]

 

Could you elaborate on the bolded? Just on a cursory look for me:

 

TT finished with 23 TDs combined in 2016 which was more than Russel Wilson (22), Flacco (22), Bradford (20), Tannehil (20), Wentz(18), and Dalton (22) among others.

 

I would like to look at it if you can find it as I may be misunderstanding your point.

Look at the team's total TD's and the QB's and calculate the percentage. Same thing with yards.

 

I figured he would rank low, but he was almost dead last. This is only a measure of how much of the offense the QB is directly responsible for to be clear, but I found it worth noting when talking about the offenses production and how much credit you want to assign to Taylor.

[JM2009]

It's easy to make the defense the scapegoat. These posters can't come to terms with the fact that Taylor is just not very good when it comes to passing. They can't escape the fact that he came up short when it mattered most in nearly all situations, however.

The Ryans were fired due to the poor defense.

Look at the team's total TD's and the QB's and calculate the percentage. Same thing with yards.

 

I figured he would rank low, but he was almost dead last. This is only a measure of how much of the offense the QB is directly responsible for to be clear, but I found it worth noting when talking about the offenses production and how much credit you want to assign to Taylor.

You assign him zero credit for the running game, and rushing TDs that he himself scores.

[Crusher]

Actually...that is not correct either.....when talking about the offense its talking about the OFFENSE which includes the whole offensive unit....it is just YOU that throws in the TT thing...he is merely a spoke on a wheel.

I don't think it's accurate to go around and tout Taylor as being the leader of a upper half of the league offense when he was alot less responsible in terms of percentage of the team's total offensive production than nearly all other QB's. It should at least be made note of.

The Ryans were fired due to the poor defense.

 

You assign him zero credit for the running game, and rushing TDs that he himself scores.

No...his rushing numbers are included. Just like all the other QB's. They accumulated rush numbers also.

[JM2009]

I don't think it's accurate to go around and tout Taylor as being the leader of a upper half of the league offense when he was alot less responsible in terms of percentage of the team's total offensive production than nearly all other QB's. It should at least be made note of.

 

No...his rushing numbers are included. Just like all the other QB's. They accumulated rush numbers also.

"Those numbers also combat the argument that Taylor has one of the league’s best run games to prop him up. He is adding 550-plus yards to that run game himself each season to make it look far better than it would with a less-mobile QB behind it. Buffalo has a league-leading 2,630 rushing yards this season, but Taylor accounts for 22.0 percent of them, and 23.3 percent of the team’s total in 2015."

[section122]

Look at the team's total TD's and the QB's and calculate the percentage. Same thing with yards.

 

I figured he would rank low, but he was almost dead last. This is only a measure of how much of the offense the QB is directly responsible for to be clear, but I found it worth noting when talking about the offenses production and how much credit you want to assign to Taylor.

 

I don't have time to dig in now but thanks for the explanation. It does appear that it would skew negatively towards strong running teams but I do see the point your trying to make.

[Crusher]

"Those numbers also combat the argument that Taylor has one of the leagues best run games to prop him up. He is adding 550-plus yards to that run game himself each season to make it look far better than it would with a less-mobile QB behind it. Buffalo has a league-leading 2,630 rushing yards this season, but Taylor accounts for 22.0 percent of them, and 23.3 percent of the teams total in 2015."

I've been through this with you countless times. His rush yards that you drool over are factored in, and he still comes in near the very bottom for total yards and total TD's When compared to the percentage his peers had for their respective team's.

[JM2009]

I've been through this with you countless times. His rush yards that you drool over are factored in, and he still comes in near the very bottom for total yards and total TD's When compared to the percentage his peers had for their respective team's.

The Bills attempted the fewest passes in the NFL in 2016.

[Crusher]

 

I don't have time to dig in now but thanks for the explanation. It does appear that it would skew negatively towards strong running teams but I do see the point your trying to make.

Sure thing.

 

Yeah...I did the legwork on the now extinct board, and posters lost their minds. The MODS quickly worked to delete it with no further explanation. I was not happy about it at all.

[JM2009]

I've been through this with you countless times. His rush yards that you drool over are factored in, and he still comes in near the very bottom for total yards and total TD's When compared to the percentage his peers had for their respective team's.

"Taylor ended the 2016 regular season with the 10th-best overall grade among all QBs, at 84.7. That’s higher than Alex Smith, Ben Roethlisberger, Jameis Winston, Andy Dalton and—here is the big one—Dak Prescott. Last year, Taylor was seventh (88.3)."

[Crusher]

The Bills attempted the fewest passes in the NFL in 2016.

This doesn't change the fact that he was less responsible for his team's production than most other QB's.

 

Tyrod has proven to be efficient, not productive.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I don't have time to dig in now but thanks for the explanation. It does appear that it would skew negatively towards strong running teams but I do see the point your trying to make.

Of course it would, the QB would naturally be responsible for less TDs with less opportunities. If you use that odd way of viewing things Tom Brady was only responsible for 54.9% of the Pats offensive TDs and Blake Bortles would be responsible for 81.3% of Jacksonville's offensive TDs.

[Crusher]

"Taylor ended the 2016 regular season with the 10th-best overall grade among all QBs, at 84.7. Thats higher than Alex Smith, Ben Roethlisberger, Jameis Winston, Andy Dalton andhere is the big oneDak Prescott. Last year, Taylor was seventh (88.3)."

This doesn't account for the systems they ran and the reponsibilities they had within their offensive system. Taylor was clearly in a simplistic system with little responsibility and very little freelancing, making reads, and attempting more difficult throws.

 

Those things absolutely mean something, and without accounting for that, I can't glean much from some of these stats.

[John from Riverside]

Sure thing.

 

Yeah...I did the legwork on the now extinct board, and posters lost their minds. The MODS quickly worked to delete it with no further explanation. I was not happy about it at all.

Everyones out to get you huh? lol

[section122]

Of course it would, the QB would naturally be responsible for less TDs with less opportunities. If you use that odd way of viewing things Tom Brady was only responsible for 54.9% of the Pats offensive TDs and Blake Bortles would be responsible for 81.3% of Jacksonville's offensive TDs.

 

That is why I wanted to dig in on it lol. It would seem to also reward poor teams QBs as well as poor scoring teams.

 

The point however seems to be that although the Bills offense as a whole was effective Tyrod wasn't. Not sure that is the best way to say it but I think that is what he was driving at. For me personally it is really hard to remove the QB from the equation when discussing a successful offense or say that the QB didn't pplay a large part in it.

[PolishDave]

Most rushing yards by a back in NFL = Elliot at 1,631

 

Most passing yards by a QB = Brees at 5,208

 

 

If you add up all the rushing yards for the top ten yardage rushing teams it equals = 20,451

 

If you add up all the passing yards for the top ten yardage passing teams it equals = 43,926

 

In other words one rushing yard is the equivalent of more than 2 passing yards NFL wide.

 

 

Comparing rushers to passers is not a 1:1 ratio league wide.

 

If you do so, your results are automatically going to be skewed against a rusher every time regardless of who that rusher is.

 

On passing plays you are giving credit to the QB for every yard gained by receivers running with the ball as well as every yard the pass actually goes through the air. It is like 2 players playing against 1. And the receivers running with the ball very often times are already passed the line of scrimmage where there are far fewer defenders.

Edited May 8, 2017 by PolishDave