dpberr Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 I'm intrigued the Pegulas have made money conducting business this way. They appear to get emotionally invested in people quickly and it's not something you traditionally see from business owners.
dubs Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 I used to be the biggest homer on this board and try to defend everything the Bills did. But honestly, what other NFL franchise would give this much power to a 1st time head coach? It's a good point. I am not saying a guarantee it's going to work. But there is also no guarantee it's NOT going to work. The most important things for a franchise to be successful, IMHO, is: 1) Put good people in place in important positions (Coach, GM, etc..) 2) Ensure those people are coordinated, working in tandem, and have the same vision 3) Get good players I think that gets teams most of the way there. I think with McD, there is a chance we are starting to get number 1 right. Maybe not, but maybe we are. I think they are trying to find a GM that will complete number 1 AND number 2. That's going to lead to getting good players though the draft, retention, and FA. Gonna take some time and might not work and I understand the concern with a relatively neophyte in there. But it could work as well, especially if McD is what the Pegulas think he is.
dave mcbride Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Agree. Lombardi says some interesting things but he is basically just a puppet of BB. He was dreadful in Cleveland. That is just untrue. The Browns developed into a really good team but fell apart because of the move, which was probably the most controversial and acrimonious team move since the Dodgers left Brooklyn. I distinctly recall how ugly it was. The Browns were really good in 1994 (11-5), crushing the Pats in a playoff game and leading the league in least points allowed.
Dr. Who Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 I used to be the biggest homer on this board and try to defend everything the Bills did. But honestly, what other NFL franchise would give this much power to a 1st time head coach? Yeah, just using yards in a vacuum is a silly way to judge success. Kyle Orton was known as a qb that could move the ball between the 20s but struggles to get it in the endzone. If you can't score tds, who cares how many yards you had? Additionally, stats like 3rd down % and red zone % are very important as well. Agree with all these points. I hope McD is successful, but on what basis has he acquired all this power? He has yet to coach a single down as a head coach.
BADOLBILZ Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 How do you leap to a conclusion like this? What is your source? No way do I believe that the Pegulas have just blindly handed over the team to McDermott. Nobody would run their business that way, especuially people as successful as the Pegulas are in the business world. They hired him as HC........gave him autonomy over personnel..........and are hiring his hand-picked choice for GM. Bear in mind he has fielded a lot of "meh" defenses as a coordinator and never won a title. We aren't talking about the type of track record that is normally given this much power. If the term "blindly" offends you, that's different than being incorrect..... figuratively it sounds pretty accurate.
WhoTom Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Agree. Lombardi says some interesting things but he is basically just a puppet of BB. He was dreadful in Cleveland. So was Belichick.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 That is just untrue. The Browns developed into a really good team but fell apart because of the move, which was probably the most controversial and acrimonious team move since the Dodgers left Brooklyn. I distinctly recall how ugly it was. The Browns were really good in 1994 (11-5), crushing the Pats in a playoff game and leading the league in least points allowed. He's been a GM once in his career and that was a couple of years ago in Cleveland. His draft in Cleveland was awful. Again, I think he's a smart guy but I also think he is just saying stuff that other smart guys have told him. Very interesting nonetheless.
Buffalo Boy Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 So far, I like the McD hire as coach. Not much you can judge in the offseason, but I at least like his pedigree and what he's saying so far. I do NOT, as a general rule, like the idea of a coach getting powers as a GM, and the way things sound from the outside, that's basically what we're going to get if McD has as much sway in this decision as the reports are making it out to be (who the hell knows what the truth is though). I also hate the idea that this article can be correct. Biggest mistake the Pegulas made so far was hiring Rex cause he blew them away when they talked to him. How can they be so quick to repeat that mistake? They're doing things backwards. They need to hire they're best possible bet at GM and let him have the reigns. I really do hope this works out and they stumbled into a great hire with McDermott. Yep
Rico Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) Great article, thanks. In this day and age where fantasy football is the rage, i think this article does help to explain why some of the less-savvy posters would think Lil Doug was a good GM. No doubt he was in WAY over his head, but if he had been here a decade earlier, he would've been a big upgrade over John friggin' Guy. Edited May 4, 2017 by Rico
dave mcbride Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 He's been a GM once in his career and that was a couple of years ago in Cleveland. His draft in Cleveland was awful. Again, I think he's a smart guy but I also think he is just saying stuff that other smart guys have told him. Very interesting nonetheless. That was a horrible situation - one that preceded and continued after he left. The fish rots from the head, and in the case of Cleveland, it is Haslam. He was pretty high up in Cleveland in the early 1990s and also with the Raiders in the late 1990s/early 200s. IIRC, he was involved in bringing in Gannon, who was most definitely not an Al Davis prototype.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 It's a good point. I am not saying a guarantee it's going to work. But there is also no guarantee it's NOT going to work. The most important things for a franchise to be successful, IMHO, is: 1) Put good people in place in important positions (Coach, GM, etc..) 2) Ensure those people are coordinated, working in tandem, and have the same vision 3) Get good players I think that gets teams most of the way there. I think with McD, there is a chance we are starting to get number 1 right. Maybe not, but maybe we are. I think they are trying to find a GM that will complete number 1 AND number 2. That's going to lead to getting good players though the draft, retention, and FA. Gonna take some time and might not work and I understand the concern with a relatively neophyte in there. But it could work as well, especially if McD is what the Pegulas think he is. You make solid points and trust me, I want for you to be right. But it does seem like the Pegulas don't know how to run a NFL team. They basically Gave no power to their GM. They hire a guy as a first time coach, who was a D.C. For a defensive coach. SM seems like a really smart guy. But this seems like the exact opposite way to build a team. Is our puppet GM going to have control over the roster? Can he fire the coach? That was a horrible situation - one that preceded and continued after he left. The fish rots from the head, and in the case of Cleveland, it is Haslam. He was pretty high up in Cleveland in the early 1990s and also with the Raiders in the late 1990s/early 200s. IIRC, he was involved in bringing in Gannon, who was most definitely not an Al Davis prototype. I don't disagree with you. But the one time he was a GM, he literally had one of the drafts you could imagine.
dubs Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 You make solid points and trust me, I want for you to be right. But it does seem like the Pegulas don't know how to run a NFL team. They basically Gave no power to their GM. They hire a guy as a first time coach, who was a D.C. For a defensive coach. SM seems like a really smart guy. But this seems like the exact opposite way to build a team. Is our puppet GM going to have control over the roster? Can he fire the coach? I don't disagree with you. But the one time he was a GM, he literally had one of the drafts you could imagine. I know, it does seem weird. here's kind of what I think happened from a timeline standpoint (again, could TOTALLY be wrong here, but just a hunch based on how things have transpired). Pegs got to the end of last season and said, Rex is a disaster. He gave way too much power to Rob and the defense was horrible. He's go to go. So they fired him. They considered firing Whaley and Co as well, but knew that it was a tough time to hire a new front office with FAs and the draft coming up, so rather than scramble to clean house and potentially make a rash decision, they kept DW and decided to look for a new coach. When they hired McD, they did it with the notion that they loved what he brought to the table (obviously mostly intangibles) and decided at that moment his vision was going to be the vision going forward. Whaley was a dead man walking. But they also decided that the next GM would have to not just coexist with McD, but be a true partner. Meaning they are going to share the vision and ultimately credit or blame depending on how the next few years go. So in the end, I think the timing seems funny, but at the end of the day the new GM and SMcD will be a package deal and it will either work out or it won't. Again, not guarantees this works or that things played out this way, but just one humble man's opinion.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 I used to be the biggest homer on this board and try to defend everything the Bills did. But honestly, what other NFL franchise would give this much power to a 1st time head coach? You and me both, brother.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 I know, it does seem weird. here's kind of what I think happened from a timeline standpoint (again, could TOTALLY be wrong here, but just a hunch based on how things have transpired). Pegs got to the end of last season and said, Rex is a disaster. He gave way too much power to Rob and the defense was horrible. He's go to go. So they fired him. They considered firing Whaley and Co as well, but knew that it was a tough time to hire a new front office with FAs and the draft coming up, so rather than scramble to clean house and potentially make a rash decision, they kept DW and decided to look for a new coach. When they hired McD, they did it with the notion that they loved what he brought to the table (obviously mostly intangibles) and decided at that moment his vision was going to be the vision going forward. Whaley was a dead man walking. But they also decided that the next GM would have to not just coexist with McD, but be a true partner. Meaning they are going to share the vision and ultimately credit or blame depending on how the next few years go. So in the end, I think the timing seems funny, but at the end of the day the new GM and SMcD will be a package deal and it will either work out or it won't. Again, not guarantees this works or that things played out this way, but just one humble man's opinion. I respect this opinion a lot. I like SM but I worry they may be putting him a position to fail. It's way too hard to coach and worry about personnel. It killed Chip Kelly. You and me both, brother. I never thought guys like you and me would be doubters haha. Once Promo starts questioning decisions, all hope is gone.
GG Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 You make solid points and trust me, I want for you to be right. But it does seem like the Pegulas don't know how to run a NFL team. They basically Gave no power to their GM. They hire a guy as a first time coach, who was a D.C. For a defensive coach. SM seems like a really smart guy. But this seems like the exact opposite way to build a team. Is our puppet GM going to have control over the roster? Can he fire the coach? I don't disagree with you. But the one time he was a GM, he literally had one of the drafts you could imagine. But things are coming more clear in retrospect, especially the Marrone quitting fiasco. Pegulas didn't come into the ownership blindly. They had a lot of input from Polian, Todd France, etc on the outsiders' views of Bills management. Marrone's known quibbles with Whaley, and Polian's refusal to come back to the Bills didn't help Whaley's case in Pegula's eyes. Obviously, Pegula should have made the GM move at that time, instead of thinking that Whaley would grow on him. in the end, Whaley proved to be what his critics said he was - a good personnel man, but a middling GM.
oldmanfan Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 You make solid points and trust me, I want for you to be right. But it does seem like the Pegulas don't know how to run a NFL team. They basically Gave no power to their GM. They hire a guy as a first time coach, who was a D.C. For a defensive coach. SM seems like a really smart guy. But this seems like the exact opposite way to build a team. Is our puppet GM going to have control over the roster? Can he fire the coach? I don't disagree with you. But the one time he was a GM, he literally had one of the drafts you could imagine. The majority of HCs in the league were coordinators before taking their HC spot.
QCity Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 https://theringer.com/nfl-buffalo-bills-gm-doug-whaley-fired-sean-mcdermott-d87e027bae86-d87e027bae86 "he was picking players, not building a team. Being a GM in the NFL is not like being a fantasy football owner. There has to be an understanding of the essentials needed for a team to succeed." It feels like I've been saying this for the past 3 years. Now that he's gone and the rose-colored glasses are off, maybe fans will look at the GM role a little differently.
BillsVet Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Great article, thanks. In this day and age where fantasy football is the rage, i think this article does help to explain why some of the less-savvy posters would think Lil Doug was a good GM. No doubt he was in WAY over his head, but if he had been here a decade earlier, he would've been a big upgrade over John friggin' Guy. Selected a QB with his first rounder in 2013. Traded up to take the then ranked top WR in 2014. Traded for McCoy (at RR's urging) in 2015. Signed Clay the same year. Nix and Whaley seemed like scouts miscast in management roles. That there wasn't alignment between coaching and the front office isn't hard to see, but it's a subject that goes too deep in the weeds for many. But if you're looking for improvement, that relationship needs to be there. And it hasn't been since Polian and Marv were working together.
wiskibreth Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) I don't think what people are understanding is that McDermott isn't being given overriding power, or making a power grab. He's simply doing the things he needs to do to keep the ball rolling. I give him tons of credit for making it known to the Pegula's that he and Doug clearly aren't on the same page, they don't share football philosophies, and by in large, they can't build a TEAM together. The Pegula's like his vision more and here we are. I think it's a little ironic that Doug probably "picked" McDermott for the HC candidate, like he would have "picked" a player, only to have it bite him in the behind because he didn't do his complete homework to know if they shared the same philosophies on building a football team. I think when all the dust settles, we'll end up with two guys with equal "power" reporting to the Pegula's in complete partnership. -which is what they've wanted all along, but didn't know how to get there. McDermott turned on some lights. I think this part of the article speaks the lowdest to me, and where the Pegula's want to be: "In football, a successful partnership between the head coach and GM starts with a philosophical connection. I was a more effective personnel man working for Patriots head coach Bill Belichick; we share the same vision for what it takes to win in the NFL. When I wasn’t with Bill, I was horrible working with … I’ll leave out the name, as it pains me to even remember. The cohesiveness between coach and GM is vital to an organization. Pete Carroll found it with John Schneider in Seattle, Ted Thompson found it with Mike McCarthy in Green Bay, and the Steelers have always had it with whoever is their GM — in this case, Kevin Colbert — and their head coach, Mike Tomlin." Edited May 4, 2017 by wiskibreth
boyst Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Between the "structure" Great Leader Pegula has setup, and the constant turnover in coaching staff, Whaley never had a chance. We might be ok since it looks like McD is getting all the power and will hire his own GM, but... 1. That's ass-backwards 2. Great Leader Pegula said in his presser that he is sticking with the flat structure so the HC and GM will continue to report directly to him. If #2 stays true, we'll continue with this lack of accountability and bickering that has plagued the FO over the last 4 years. exactly. At the end of the day coaches and GMs are mid level management on this level. It gets nothing done.
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