Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 I look at it this way. If Sean McDermott had great influence in getting Whaley and the scouts fired... then I say kudos to him! Any really good defensive coach would look at Tyrod Taylor as a godsend to a defense in that this QB can run a ball control run first offense and doesn't foolishly turn the ball over! In his two seasons with Buffalo, Taylor has played in 29 games and thrown 37 TD's, 12 INTs. I can see why McDermott wanted to go this season with Taylor at QB while Whaley wanted him gone. Perhaps. Another viewpoint on the topic would be, the Bills have had 2 years to see how Taylor develops. Several experts feel "what you see is what you get" and it isn't enough for the long haul as an NFL QB. If Taylor had been released and the Bills had gone after a QB in this draft, as the Bears and our trade partner, KC, did, we could have drafted potentially our QB of the future, and kept Gilmore vs. creating a hole while letting drafted talent walk. I personally wanted to keep Taylor, but if Mahomes succeeds, the new GM and his scouts better be sterling talent evaluators or the Bills decision to fire Whaley and the current scouts will look...."Bills-y" in hindsight.
oldmanfan Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Perhaps. Another viewpoint on the topic would be, the Bills have had 2 years to see how Taylor develops. Several experts feel "what you see is what you get" and it isn't enough for the long haul as an NFL QB. If Taylor had been released and the Bills had gone after a QB in this draft, as the Bears and our trade partner, KC, did, we could have drafted potentially our QB of the future, and kept Gilmore vs. creating a hole while letting drafted talent walk. I personally wanted to keep Taylor, but if Mahomes succeeds, the new GM and his scouts better be sterling talent evaluators or the Bills decision to fire Whaley and the current scouts will look...."Bills-y" in hindsight. . And if Mahomes craps out and TT looks good on Dennison'soffense they'll look smart.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 . And if Mahomes craps out and TT looks good on Dennison'soffense they'll look smart. Yes. That is why I said "another viewpoint" and "perhaps". We know the storyline, we don't know the ending. Maybe the ending is "happily ever after". Or maybe not. I am in favor of firing Whaley and the scouts, only because I am tired of the divided responsibility and excuses. People here still blame Whaley for EJ and 2013 draft (under Nix as GM) but credit Nix for Hughes (same timeframe) and credit Ryan for Tyrod Taylor etc. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. So let McWrestler drive the show entirely, including chosing "his" GM and let the lines of responsibility be clear.
oldmanfan Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Yes. That is why I said "another viewpoint" and "perhaps". We know the storyline, we don't know the ending. Maybe the ending is "happily ever after". Or maybe not. I am in favor of firing Whaley and the scouts, only because I am tired of the divided responsibility and excuses. People here still blame Whaley for EJ and 2013 draft (under Nix as GM) but credit Nix for Hughes (same timeframe) and credit Ryan for Tyrod Taylor etc. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. So let McWrestler drive the show entirely, including chosing "his" GM and let the lines of responsibility be clear. Time will tell
TheFunPolice Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 McDermott did fail once. I don't want to lie to you. One day he tried to sleep in until 4:30. Instead he woke up at 4:03.
Nihilarian Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Perhaps. Another viewpoint on the topic would be, the Bills have had 2 years to see how Taylor develops. Several experts feel "what you see is what you get" and it isn't enough for the long haul as an NFL QB. If Taylor had been released and the Bills had gone after a QB in this draft, as the Bears and our trade partner, KC, did, we could have drafted potentially our QB of the future, and kept Gilmore vs. creating a hole while letting drafted talent walk. I personally wanted to keep Taylor, but if Mahomes succeeds, the new GM and his scouts better be sterling talent evaluators or the Bills decision to fire Whaley and the current scouts will look...."Bills-y" in hindsight. My post wasn't about whether Tyrod being good enough or Mahomes developing into the next Jim Kelly as it was about the fact that Whaley had earned getting fired! If firing Whaley means that finally, Russ Brandon will finally be purged from the football side, it's a great day! Enough with this switching coaches and schemes every few years because nobody at the top has a clue how to build a successful winning team. With Whaley as GM after four seasons and a 30-34 record, so many holes still currently all over the roster, Two first rounders for a guy who has missed 11 games out of the last 32 and always seemed to be nursing an injury somewhere. The team being in salary cap hell without paying top dollar for a franchise QB and allowing quality talent to leave for a division rival because of that hell. The inability to find top quality RB/TE talent in the draft was a big reason for overpaying for the current players in free agency. The overall consensus of most NFL scouts were all saying before the draft that this QB class didn't have starting QB talent and they all needed developmental time behind a starter. Knowing this it was brilliant to keep Taylor (who may still keep developing) and not draft a QB this year. Now the Bills will have two first rounders next year should there be a quality QB they want in the draft. Besides, who out of the old scouts/GM would even have the wherewithal to even properly evaluate that QB talent. The best Whaley QB found in his four years was Kyle Orton and Kyle ran for the door like he was on fire from playing behind the worst offensive line in the league. Let's also not forget that Whaley had his rookie QB (EJ) along with two other rookie QB's playing behind some really bad lines along with no QB coach in his first year with the team. So many misses on talent at so many positions the last seven years with Whaley and Nix and the team still didn't find it's franchise QB in all that time! To me, it isn't all about will McDermott get the team into the playoffs this year. It's more about some needed changes in the scouting dept/GM and getting away from the way Ralph Wilson ran the team the last decade. Enough of this middling on the verge stuff and never being able to really compete against the best team in the league in the same division as the Patriots. Sink or swim this change was badly needed and should have happened after the 2014 season.
ROONDOGG55 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Disclaimer: This is a sincere attempt to understand what others see in McDermott. Not trying to start an argument, as I don't think we have enough info for a meaningful conclusion right now either way. But I am really struggling with this guy so far. And I am an optimist by nature and have pretty much talked myself into every single Bills coach (at least during their first preseason) over the past four decades. Here's what worries me: -Never says anything remotely interesting. Buttoned-down corporate speak all the way. And I know there is value in keeping your thoughts to yourself, but this kind of say-nothing style doesn't necessarily mask deep thoughts. It often means the person actually has no insight. The way he communicates publicly completely reminds me of Russ Brandon. That is not a good thing, in my opinion. -Seems to have read a few too many leadership books. He seems like he is trying to manufacture himself into a leader through notes and aphorisms and process. I am beyond skeptical of that approach in any organizational context. He doesn't seem comfortable in his skin to me - even the way he fidgets around in press conferences. He seems like a guy who loves the idea of being a leader, but hasn't discovered his own authentic approach. Feels like he's playing dress-up. (Again, screams Russ Brandon.) -Seems technocratic - thinks success will come primarily through control, detail, process. All well and good at times, but nowhere near enough to manage the seething, human, multi-variable complexity that is any football team. -Role in the Whaley affair is unclear, but optics do look like a bit of a backstabbing power grab. I admit this could be TOTALLY off. Here's what I like: -People he's worked with seem to like the guy. -Reportedly does a good job of connecting to and caring about players as individuals. -I have mad respect for Andy Reid, so I like the tree. I admit, my negatives are superficial and based on my own cursory observations, whereas the positives are substantive and based on the experience and testimony of people who have worked with him. But right now I just have the feeling he is in over his head, but has impressed the Pegulas with his organized approach, attention to detail, and stoic wrestler manner - none of which will make him a good coach IMO. I really hope I'm wrong, and I'm totally prepared to fall in love with the guy as things play out. But I can't remember feeling this cold about a hire. Even Marrone who came off as a total tool early on, somehow convinced me he might have something. This is called PTSD...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted May 3, 2017 Author Posted May 3, 2017 This is called PTSD... Ha ha. I think you may have nailed it. Maybe I need treatment, not a message board discussion. I've been in love with this stupid football team since 1980. There have to be scars. My condolences to those of you that actually followed the team in the 60s and 70s as well.
BillsFan4 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 This is a fantastic post. Thanks for such a thoughtful response. The stats you list do paint a picture of solid coordinator at worst. So that's a good start. The links were very interesting. I had read some of them before, but clearly needed a refresher. I hadn't seen that interview with Coleman, and that was revelatory. Rare depth for something on the sports pages. (In fact, it made me want to hire Kurt Coleman as a coach. What a thoughtful guy.) The picture he paints of McD is very strong, and it does shift my optimism meter significantly. The hard work/grinder stuff doesn't do much for me - there are lots of those guys in the league. But the flexibility, the willingness to build both strategy and culture from the strengths and temperaments of the actual individuals on the team (vs. some slogan), the attention to individualized player development, and frankly the caring - these go a long way for me. One thing that seems clear: whatever happened with Whaley, none of the comments about McD even hint at the kind of guy who is duplicitous or primarily out for himself - quite the opposite. So I have to assume that whatever role he had in things, it was fair and above board. As you say, we can't really know whether he's in over his head until we see how he swims. But it seems pretty clear he's a good guy, with a solid understanding of football tactics, and potentially a strong hand at culture development. I definitely feel better about him than I did yesterday, so thanks. (I still want to hire Kurt Coleman. Wonder if he'll retire soon? ] Hey, no problem! Glad I gave you a bit more optimism about McDermott.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 My post wasn't about whether Tyrod being good enough or Mahomes developing into the next Jim Kelly as it was about the fact that Whaley had earned getting fired! If firing Whaley means that finally, Russ Brandon will finally be purged from the football side, it's a great day! What is there about Pegula firing Whaley which leads you to conclude Brandon will be purged? Pegula has publically stated Russ will be part of the GM hiring process. The gossip on Whaley is "he's so far up Pegula's butt he can see Russ Brandon's feet". No GM bats 1.00 on talent acquisition. GMs properly don't have W-L records, especially ones extending to the start of their tenure (when the other guy's roster is in place). But the #1 thing that makes a GM successful or unsuccessful at talent acquisition/retention is consistency in coaching and scheme, and that, there can be no question, Whaley lacked. Again: I'm not against Whaley being fired, just because I'm tired of the whole "was it this guys move, was it that guys move" divided responsibility thing. Let McDermott take the credit ...and the blame. Let him have his own GM and scouts and succeed or fail as a package.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Polian says McD is Levy 2.0. http://buffalowdown.com/2017/03/05/buffalo-bills-bill-polian-sean-mcdermott-marv-levy/
blacklabel Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) If anyone is listening to the John Murphy Show today, Steve Tasker is on and he's laying down some knowledge. He talked about how difficult it was to get a willing HC in here during Ralph's later years (mostly during the drought). The big name coaches were concerned about the inevitable change in ownership. They were viewed as an unstable organization which is why they ran the gamut on different coaches. Gregg Williams and Doug Marrone, the disciplinarians. Williams jumped at the chance because it was his first chance at being a HC. Marrone only signed on if they included the opt-out clause. Gailey and Rex, players coaches that were retreads. Ralph handing the keys to Marv and Russ, etc. A lot of work went into convincing these coaches to take a chance in Buffalo given the instability of the franchise. Now with stable ownership in place things have started to turn around for them a little bit. McDermott says all the right things but of course he isn't going to divulge valuable info to the media. And I think that's a calculated effort coming straight from ownership. Pegula, by nature, is averse to being in the spotlight. He doesn't do a lot of interviews, he would prefer to install the right people in his organizations and let them lead the charge while he works behind the scenes. Unfortunately they made a bad choice with Rex and I definitely think that hire was influenced heavily by Russ. They viewed Rex as someone who would create hype, which he did but he didn't create wins. I think with McDermott they said, let's find a pure football guy, we don't need to be flashy, we don't want leaks in the media, we need to turn it down and just work. And that's what McDermott personifies, he's here to work. And I was a Whaley supporter and I understand they felt the need to change that dynamic in the organization. They had changed every other dynamic except that one so I think, for them, it may have been a last resort type of thing. Based on what Pegula said, I don't think he personally wanted to fire Doug, but I think he felt it was needed and that a completely fresh start in that department was one of the only things they hadn't tried to get things turned around. The only thing that bothers me is that Russ Brandon has remained a constant throughout all of this chaos. They can say he no longer has a role in football operations but he does. It's not a defined role and I'm sure they will continue to downplay his involvement but he's involved. If they wanted a completely fresh start, Russ would be gone as well. But, Russ is in their ear, he played a big role in transferring ownership to the Pegulas and has surely helped them navigate their way through the NFL as new owners. But anywho, there's a lot to like about McDermott. My one hang up with him *might be* his preference for high character players. I understand there's a line, I mean, Dawkins had a prior incident and they still drafted him but I would hope in the future that character won't be the main thing that determines their decisions about players. I don't think he's in over his head. He's been working towards this opportunity since he started coaching and he's taken in knowledge from some very well respected coaches. I can only hope he was the right decision but right now I'm on board with him. I haven't been able to say that about any coach they've had since Wade. Edited May 3, 2017 by blacklabel
boyst Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Here are Sean's strengths and weaknesses: ISTJ Strengths Honest and Direct Integrity is the heart of the ISTJ personality type. Emotional manipulation, mind games and reassuring lies all run counter to ISTJs preference for managing the reality of the situations they encounter with plain and simple honesty. Strong-willed and Dutiful ISTJs embody that integrity in their actions too, working hard and staying focused on their goals. Patient and determined, people with the ISTJ personality type meet their obligations, period. Very Responsible ISTJs word is a promise, and a promise means everything. ISTJs would rather run themselves into the ground with extra days and lost sleep than fail to deliver the results they said they would. Loyalty is a strong sentiment for ISTJ personalities, and they fulfill their duties to the people and organizations theyve committed themselves to. Calm and Practical None of their promises would mean much if ISTJs lost their tempers and broke down at every sign of hardship they keep their feet on the ground and make clear, rational decisions. Peoples preferences are a factor to consider in this process, and ISTJs work to make the best use of individual qualities, but these decisions are made with effectiveness in mind more so than empathy. The same applies to criticisms, for others and themselves. Create and Enforce Order The primary goal of any ISTJ is to be effective in what theyve chosen to do, and they believe that this is accomplished best when everyone involved knows exactly what is going on and why. Unclear guidelines and people who break established rules undermine this effort, and are rarely tolerated by ISTJs. Structure and rules foster dependability; chaos creates unforeseen setbacks and missed deadlines. Jacks-of-all-trades Much like Analyst personalities, ISTJs are proud repositories of knowledge, though the emphasis is more on facts and statistics than concepts and underlying principles. This allows ISTJs to apply themselves to a variety of situations, picking up and applying new data and grasping the details of challenging situations as a matter of course. ISTJ Weaknesses Stubborn The facts are the facts, and ISTJs tend to resist any new idea that isnt supported by them. This factual decision-making process also makes it difficult for people with the ISTJ personality type to accept that they were wrong about something but anyone can miss a detail, even them. Insensitive While not intentionally harsh, ISTJs often hurt more sensitive types feelings by the simple mantra that honesty is the best policy. ISTJ personalities may take emotions into consideration, but really only so far as to determine the most effective way to say what needs to be said. Always by the Book ISTJs believe that things work best with clearly defined rules, but this makes them reluctant to bend those rules or try new things, even when the downside is minimal. Truly unstructured environments leave ISTJs all but paralyzed. Judgmental Opinions are opinions and facts are facts, and ISTJs are unlikely to respect people who disagree with those facts, or especially those who remain willfully ignorant of them. Often Unreasonably Blame Themselves All this can combine to make ISTJs believe they are the only ones who can see projects through reliably. As they load themselves with extra work and responsibilities, turning away good intentions and helpful ideas, ISTJs sooner or later hit a tipping point where they simply cant deliver. Since theyve heaped the responsibility on themselves, ISTJs then believe the responsibility for failure is theirs alone to bear. https://www.16personalities.com/istj-strengths-and-weaknesses well. He's not an INTJ so he still beta
jeffismagic Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 well. He's not an INTJ so he still beta INTJ is Belichick.
jeffismagic Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 intj is me. Well, can you apply for the GM position? We need someone more creative working with Sean.
Heitz Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 If anyone... ... ...since Wade. Great post - makes almost TOO much sense
Buftex Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Have you ever listened to Bill Belichick's interviews? Not much different that Dick Jauron interviews, though lacking in any humor or attitude whatsoever.
boyst Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Well, can you apply for the GM position? We need someone more creative working with Sean. hahaha i mean, i know a thing or two about football but could you imagine a press conference with me?
jeffismagic Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 hahaha i mean, i know a thing or two about football but could you imagine a press conference with me? Yeah, just don't do them.
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