QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Yes, height's a problem. Deeper drops might help. Maybe Dennison is going to make him move around within the pocket more rather than bootlegging outside the pocket.

Brees-6'0"

Tarkenton-6'0"

Bob Griese-6'1"

Kemp-6'0"

Starr-6'1"

 

....these guys all had productive careers so there is a way to be successful......................

[BADOLBILZ]

Good thinking,

 

I believe Taylors ability to throw the football is getting somewhat misinterpreted because of the low passing attempts and comparisons to league totals in my humble opinion.

 

No doubt.

 

People forget the amazing start to Tyrod's career in Buffalo.

 

First 3 games......74% completion rate with a whopping 9.2 ypa.

 

When he has playmakers he has proven he can work the deep balls and stick those complimentary comebacks with precision.......and it's just hard to defense.

 

He didn't have any healthy playmaking WR most of last season, he had small targets with mostly intermediate range capability as receivers and that didn't play well because he's not a QB that can throw just any WR into big plays.

 

But he CAN make enough throws at a very high level that he can be a tremendous asset at QB.

 

I've often compared him to Randall Cunningham and Daunte Culpepper when they were in Minnesota.......given playmakers they could put up amazing numbers......but without them, they could look bad.

[Crusher]

And something that I thought was interesting... could mean little or could mean a lot. last week Taylor said this:

 

this offense allows us to spread the ball around

 

Did Roman and Lynn NOT let him spread it around?

 

Was there a subtle jab at the offenses he played in the last two years?

You will latch onto anything that could possibly excuse Taylor or paint him in the light you want everyone else to see him in.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

You will latch onto anything that could possibly excuse Taylor or paint him in the light you want everyone else to see him in.

 

 

so, everyone should see it the way you do?

 

that's a laugh.

[Figster]

You will latch onto anything that could possibly excuse Taylor or paint him in the light you want everyone else to see him in.

Its a football forum and having discussions about our starting QB goes with the territory.

 

Are stats a fabrication?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Good thinking,

 

I believe Taylors ability to throw the football is getting somewhat misinterpreted because of the low passing attempts and comparisons to league totals in my humble opinion.

....would be interesting to see a statistical breakdown of his passing game in the "heat of the battle" versus catch up or garbage time......BUT...the kid gets a clean slate IMO with the "dysfunction junction" he's been a part of since signing.....onus is on Dennison to design an offense that fits him but also corrals his premature tendency to "pull it down too soon" depending on his wheels to make it happen regularly.....that needs to be a selective option before he gets killed........he still struggles with processing the entire field, reads, progressions, spotting receivers IF he finds them.....IMO, those are gray matter issues which I'm not sure are fixable.....thus Dennison's offenseive plan needs to take that into account so the passing game is a threatening, viable alternative to the run game.....Blowhard Wrecks was a disaster to the defense but equally so with the offense and his "ground and pound" asinine proclamation with only ONE stallion in the stable...........

[John from Riverside]

You will latch onto anything that could possibly excuse Taylor or paint him in the light you want everyone else to see him in.

WIth all due respect Crusher it looks like you do the polar opposite on that.

 

It sure would be great if we could have you and transplant venture in from the north and south poles so a respectful discussion could be had.

[transplantbillsfan]

Brees-6'0"

Tarkenton-6'0"

Bob Griese-6'1"

Kemp-6'0"

Starr-6'1"

 

....these guys all had productive careers so there is a way to be successful......................

I agree, but those guys were successful in spite of their height, not because of it.

 

Taylor is above 6 feet, so not a major issue.

You will latch onto anything that could possibly excuse Taylor or paint him in the light you want everyone else to see him in.

Did I latch?

 

I made one comment and within it I said it could mean something or could mean nothing.

 

Your hatred for Taylor seriously makes it virtually impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you about him.

WIth all due respect Crusher it looks like you do the polar opposite on that.

 

It sure would be great if we could have you and transplant venture in from the north and south poles so a respectful discussion could be had.

Well this is just offensive...

 

really offensive...

Edited May 27, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[nedboy7]

Who cares if some of you think Tyrod is not an NFL caliber player. You know how many people actually think the earth is flat? There is no shortage of illogical beliefs out there. Believe anything you want. It dont make it real. Most people who know the game like Tyrod as a player. Get over it.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I agree, but those guys were successful in spite of their height, not because of it.

 

Taylor is above 6 feet, so not a major issue.

Did I latch?

 

I made one comment and within it I said it could mean something or could mean nothing.

 

 

....doubt a properly designed system around their height limitations had anything to do with their successes, right?..............

[transplantbillsfan]

....doubt a properly designed system around their height limitations had anything to do with their successes, right?..............

I think you're thinking we're on a different page when we aren't...

[Foxx]

 

No doubt.

 

People forget the amazing start to Tyrod's career in Buffalo.

 

First 3 games......74% completion rate with a whopping 9.2 ypa.

 

When he has playmakers he has proven he can work the deep balls and stick those complimentary comebacks with precision.......and it's just hard to defense.

 

He didn't have any healthy playmaking WR most of last season, he had small targets with mostly intermediate range capability as receivers and that didn't play well because he's not a QB that can throw just any WR into big plays.

 

But he CAN make enough throws at a very high level that he can be a tremendous asset at QB.

 

I've often compared him to Randall Cunningham and Daunte Culpepper when they were in Minnesota.......given playmakers they could put up amazing numbers......but without them, they could look bad.

the other side of the coin to Tyrods amazing career start,is that there was no tape on Tyrod. teams didn't know what he was going to do or who he was. as time wore on, teams figured him out and were better able to contain him. capped with the first game of last year by his previous team, the Ravens. they knew from having him on their team that the best way to contain him was to make him be a quarterback. once that little secret was out of the bag, you had the season he had last year.

 

short of some miraculous intervention by this years coaching staff, that is who Tyrod is and what you will get from him. the number of quarterbacks who have evolved to become significantly better quarterbacks after seven years is slim, in fact i can think of only one. so it is possible i suppose, just highly unlikely.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Foxx

[BADOLBILZ]

the other side of the coin to Tyrods amazing career start,is that there was no tape on Tyrod. teams didn't know what he was going to do or who he was. as time wore on, teams figured him out and were better able to contain him. capped with the first game of last year by his previous team, the Ravens. they knew from having him on their team that the best way to contain him was to make him be a quarterback. once that little secret was out of the bag, you had the season he had last year.

 

short of some miraculous intervention by this years coaching staff, that is who Tyrod is and what you will get from him. the number of quarterbacks who have evolved to become significantly better quarterbacks after seven years is slim, in fact i can think of only one. so it is possible i suppose, just highly unlikely.

 

Tape hasn't undone Tyrod.

 

He's the first in a long line of Bills QB's that flashed promise NOT to be undone by weaknesses exposed by tape.

 

He just hasn't had two playmakers like Harvin and Watkins were at the beginning of 2015.

 

There is really no way to totally shut down that deep/short combination when coupled with the ability to run the ball for huge gains at both RB and QB. It's a poison choice situation for the D.

 

Teams did make adjustments........most significantly they somewhat surprisingly tried to pressure Tyrod more last year than in 2015........so that he wasn't patting the ball in the pocket for 5 seconds and dropping passes in the bucket downfield the way he did with Sammy and Hogan in 2015.

 

Woods wasn't a playmaker but just having Sammy and he back healthy at the end of the season made Tyrod look like a completely different QB.

 

But even with a buch of scrubs at WR most of the year he still kept making plays and guiding one of the league's highest scoring offenses...........where guys like Trent/JP/Fitz brought the entire team down with them when teams identified their weaknesses.cx

 

People who focused on the All-22's and open receivers Tyrod wasn't throwing to when judging Tyrod's ability/potential missed the mark.

 

Tyrod is really a just facilitator as a passer........he is like a great point guard that can't beat you with his own shot.......he does everything else well but he is not going to even venture a lot of throws that a guy like Tom Brady would.

 

We will see what the more deliberate, rhythm passing game does for Tyrod. It would seem contrary to his ultra-cautious nature as a passer but advanced stats say he excels at quick/rhythm passing and he did nothing but take snaps under center for his first 8 years at VA Tech and later Baltimore. It's not new for him, at least.

[The Dean]

I'm very late to this discussion, and I admit I didn't read every response. So apologies in advance, if this has already been covered. 27 pages in, I expect this topic is probably been beaten to death by now, anyway.

 

The study by Fahey is a type of Content Analysis. But for a Content Analysis to be taken seriously as an evaluative tool, there needs to be more than one coder looking at the same content. The comparison of the coder's evaluations on the various data points, are then compared, to check for bias, mistakes and quite frankly, simply disagreements. The comparison is known as Intercoder Reliability. If the different coders disagree on the evaluation of too many data points, the study has a low intercoder reliability, and can be said to have limited value. I would argue, but some might disagree, if the intercoder reliability is 100% (or very close), the data probably wasn't very interesting to examine to begin with, or the coders shared a specific bias. Without the check of multiple coders, it's simply one guy looking at content variables, and giving his/her opinion.

 

With that said, I'd prefer an analysis by someone who carefully looks at data and has a very good record at evaluating the specific phenomenon, than someone who says "I know it when I see it", with no record in this area.

[Figster]

I'm very late to this discussion, and I admit I didn't read every response. So apologies in advance, if this has already been covered. 27 pages in, I expect this topic is probably been beaten to death by now, anyway.

 

The study by Fahey is a type of Content Analysis. But for a Content Analysis to be taken seriously as an evaluative tool, there needs to be more than one coder looking at the same content. The comparison of the coder's evaluations on the various data points, are then compared, to check for bias, mistakes and quite frankly, simply disagreements. The comparison is known as Intercoder Reliability. If the different coders disagree on the evaluation of too many data points, the study has a low intercoder reliability, and can be said to have limited value. I would argue, but some might disagree, if the intercoder reliability is 100% (or very close), the data probably wasn't very interesting to examine to begin with, or the coders shared a specific bias. Without the check of multiple coders, it's simply one guy looking at content variables, and giving his/her opinion.

 

With that said, I'd prefer an analysis by someone who carefully looks at data and has a very good record at evaluating the specific phenomenon, than someone who says "I know it when I see it", with no record in this area.

Its always a pleasure to hear from you Deano, thanks

[Figster]

....would be interesting to see a statistical breakdown of his passing game in the "heat of the battle" versus catch up or garbage time......BUT...the kid gets a clean slate IMO with the "dysfunction junction" he's been a part of since signing.....onus is on Dennison to design an offense that fits him but also corrals his premature tendency to "pull it down too soon" depending on his wheels to make it happen regularly.....that needs to be a selective option before he gets killed........he still struggles with processing the entire field, reads, progressions, spotting receivers IF he finds them.....IMO, those are gray matter issues which I'm not sure are fixable.....thus Dennison's offenseive plan needs to take that into account so the passing game is a threatening, viable alternative to the run game.....Blowhard Wrecks was a disaster to the defense but equally so with the offense and his "ground and pound" asinine proclamation with only ONE stallion in the stable...........

You can't process what you can't see IMO.

[transplantbillsfan]

I'm very late to this discussion, and I admit I didn't read every response. So apologies in advance, if this has already been covered. 27 pages in, I expect this topic is probably been beaten to death by now, anyway.

 

The study by Fahey is a type of Content Analysis. But for a Content Analysis to be taken seriously as an evaluative tool, there needs to be more than one coder looking at the same content. The comparison of the coder's evaluations on the various data points, are then compared, to check for bias, mistakes and quite frankly, simply disagreements. The comparison is known as Intercoder Reliability. If the different coders disagree on the evaluation of too many data points, the study has a low intercoder reliability, and can be said to have limited value. I would argue, but some might disagree, if the intercoder reliability is 100% (or very close), the data probably wasn't very interesting to examine to begin with, or the coders shared a specific bias. Without the check of multiple coders, it's simply one guy looking at content variables, and giving his/her opinion.

 

With that said, I'd prefer an analysis by someone who carefully looks at data and has a very good record at evaluating the specific phenomenon, than someone who says "I know it when I see it", with no record in this area.

Yes. A system like that (almost exactly what PFF operates) would be better, but as imperfect as it is, it's not to be completely dismissed...

 

 

 

 

 

and it's also notable that PFF's system, much like the one you just mentioned, graded Taylor out as a pretty good QB, too.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Its a football forum and having discussions about our starting QB goes with the territory.

 

Are stats a fabrication?

Fabricated or selective stats.

 

Damn I was trying to stay out the QB discussion.

The season can't come fast enough.

[Figster]

Fabricated or selective stats.

 

Damn I was trying to stay out the QB discussion.

The season can't come fast enough.

Some posters point out most of the positives and have a positive outlook, some posters point out the negatives with a negative outlook and some stay somewhat neutral.

 

It balances out in my humble opinion Shady.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

You can't process what you can't see IMO.

...ouch.....a ringing endorsement.....wonder if Goodell would allow GPS units??..............