17 members of Bills scouting staff fired.

[Kirby Jackson]

My crusade was to bench TT more than play ej. But thanks for playing holier than thou

No it wasn't and that wasn't a cross worth dying on. You lost all credibility with that. Keep bringing nothing to the board though. Edited May 4, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[JohnC]

I think that you are right. McDermott has A LOT of power for a 1st time HC. His ego scares me more than anything else about him.

Yep

From a personality standpoint he reminds me of Greg Williams who entered the scene as a drill sargeant arse kicker. He acted as if his dogmatic and tyrannical approach would compensate for a lack of talent.

 

The apparent current HC/GM arrangement is not the first time that this structure has been used by Buffalo. Chuck Knox had such an all encompassing role in the football operation. The difference now is that with free agency, the cap and greater player movement it is much more difficult for someone to have such a wide ranging responsibility.

 

I get the sense that McDermott has thought long and hard about what he would like to do if given the opportunity to be a HC. Without question he is a smart and a well prepared person. In an interview setting I could see how he would be impressive, especially in contrast to the bombast of the prior HC. However, my concern is raised because he seems to have so much belief in himself and his ideas. That's what gives me pause about him. There seems to be a lack of humility in his taking on such a large responsibility.

[Bill_with_it]

Teams do not have any obligation to let scouts or other personnel staff go unless you are promoting them to GM with personnel control.

So there is no promoting from area scout to regional scout to director of pro player personnel?

The only way to avoid a anti tampering is bottom barrel scout to GM?

Are you sure about this?

[Kirby Jackson]

So there is no promoting from area scout to regional scout to director of pro player personnel?

The only way to avoid a anti tampering is bottom barrel scout to GM?

Are you sure about this?

Yeah, it has been talked about in some of the stuff written about it. Now they can let people interview but don't have to.

[Bill_with_it]

Yeah, it has been talked about in some of the stuff written about it. Now they can let people interview but don't have to.

The only anti tampering rules I located on the NFL website was assistant coaches, coaches, assistant gms, gms, and coordinators. Nothing I have found says that scouts arent free game. I could be wrong, Im not claiming to be right, however, I have found nothing that states scouts cant be hired from another teams staff.

[ndirish1978]

From a personality standpoint he reminds me of Greg Williams who entered the scene as a drill sargeant arse kicker. He acted as if his dogmatic and tyrannical approach would compensate for a lack of talent.

 

The apparent current HC/GM arrangement is not the first time that this structure has been used by Buffalo. Chuck Knox had such an all encompassing role in the football operation. The difference now is that with free agency, the cap and greater player movement it is much more difficult for someone to have such a wide ranging responsibility.

 

I get the sense that McDermott has thought long and hard about what he would like to do if given the opportunity to be a HC. Without question he is a smart and a well prepared person. In an interview setting I could see how he would be impressive, especially in contrast to the bombast of the prior HC. However, my concern is raised because he seems to have so much belief in himself and his ideas. That's what gives me pause about him. There seems to be a lack of humility in his taking on such a large responsibility.

 

Successful people are confident and often arrogant. I'm not sure where humility comes in to play here.

[GunnerBill]

No, scouts aren't 'regular people'.

They don't work on a line or in a mall or in a cubicle.

They have a tough job but they go into it for love, not money. Most of us aren't so lucky.

 

And there is an opportunity for them to make EXCELLENT money...so let's not pretend like they are poor Al Bundy like schnooks.

The ones at the bottom of the ladder have often sacrificed a lot and worked for free to get a foot in the door and are earning pretty average salaries. What job do you have to be doing to be "regular"? What other jobs do you consider irregular? Is it just NFL scouts you think don't deserve sympathy when being fired or are there other categories of worker whose unemployment you think we should celebrate?

So there is no promoting from area scout to regional scout to director of pro player personnel?

The only way to avoid a anti tampering is bottom barrel scout to GM?

Are you sure about this?

Yes. 100% sure. In the NFL there are two levels of coach - Assistant and Head Coach. Coordinator is not a formal step according to the league and therefore teams are not obliged to let you interview a position coach for a coordinator job.

 

Likewise there are two levels of personnel staff - those with control and those without. The only promotion teams cannot block is to a position with personnel control (which would almost always be GM).

[JohnC]

 

Successful people are confident and often arrogant. I'm not sure where humility comes in to play here.

Greg Williams was very confident and often arrogant. Believing too much in yourself without the self-awareness of your strengths and limitations is not a good quality to have in a professions that is so wide ranging and relies on others to attain success. When you don't have the right level of humility in a job that requires you to work with a wide range of people you will have problems. Another example of that is Marrone. And Tom Donahoe is another example of someone who was extremely confident and insufferably arrogant. Those traits are important but when not managed properly can be self-sabotaging traits.

[GunnerBill]

The GM in Kansas City was hired by the ownership and I see Andy Reid delegating and letting Dorsey act as a GM. Whether Reid has final call is not as important because Reid seems to understand when to back off from his experience.

Reid was hired first. He knew Dorsey and specifically requested he be hired as GM. Reid had GM control for most of his spell in Philly and has final sign off in KC. Reid picks the players he coaches.

[BillsFan4]

Yes, but McDermott is not on the offensive side of the ball. So I see him as more aligned with Leslie Frazier and Ron Rivera philosophically.

McDermott was under Jim Johnson almost his entire time in Philly ( from '98-'09 when Johnson died) and He runs that aggressive Jim Johnson style defense.

 

Edit - what he said:

 

Frazier and Rivera do not even run the same defense. McDermott in terms of system philosophy is a Jim Johnson guy, pure and simple. The influence is clear to see in his defenses.

I think Reid's influence is in his style as a Head Coach, the need for control and desire for one voice etc..

Agree. I'd say Johnson and Reid definitely seem to be the 2 biggest influences on McDermott, from what we've seen so far (from his time as DC in Philly & Carolina + his short time as Bills HC).

Edited May 5, 2017 by BillsFan4

[Bakin]

The ones at the bottom of the ladder have often sacrificed a lot and worked for free to get a foot in the door and are earning pretty average salaries. What job do you have to be doing to be "regular"? What other jobs do you consider irregular? Is it just NFL scouts you think don't deserve sympathy when being fired or are there other categories of worker whose unemployment you think we should celebrate?

 

.

Celebrate is a strong word.

I think people that are doing a bad job and not producing results deserve to be fired. Don't you?

 

Government waste....I cheer when they lose their jobs.

How about airline safety workers who have screwed up.

Are you crying for them Argentina when they get canned?

 

But don't worry about the scouts.

They'll get another job.

It's ok.

Let's not start with all these crocodile tears.

[GunnerBill]

Celebrate is a strong word.

I think people that are doing a bad job and not producing results deserve to be fired. Don't you?

 

Government waste....I cheer when they lose their jobs.

How about airline safety workers who have screwed up.

Are you crying for them Argentina when they get canned?

 

But don't worry about the scouts.

They'll get another job.

It's ok.

Let's not start with all these crocodile tears.

I have already said I am not like you and I do feel for people who lose their jobs and have mortgages to pay and families to feed whatever their profession. We are never going to agree on that point but I respect your right to take a different view.

 

What I am interested in is why you make this distinction between low level NFL scouts making a regular wage and other people earning the same wage in other professions? So I will repeat my question... what other professions do you consider "irregular" to the extent that the employees there are "not regular people"?

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

Successful people are confident and often arrogant. I'm not sure where humility comes in to play here.

Most successful people have confidence that is sometimes seen as arrogance. They also have humility. Without humility it's impossible to keep oneself in check, and understand their own limitations. It has been said that the true measure of intelligence is admitting what you don't you know. People who lack humility can't do that. Tyrants rarely succeed at any level. Lets just hope that McD doesn't take it that far. I think he will either be extremely successful or burn out hard and fast. There will be no in between. Edited May 5, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[YoloinOhio]

Most successful people have confidence that is sometimes seen as arrogance. They also have humility. Without humility it's impossible to keep oneself in check, and understand their own limitations. It has been said that the true measure of intelligence is admitting what you don't you know. People who lack humility can't do that. Tyrants rarely succeed at any level. Lets just hope that McD doesn't take it that far. I think he will either be extremely successful or burn out hard and fast. There will be no in between.

he has said this type of thing a lot "I'm always trying to keep learning, from anyone I can talk to in this business"... seems like he feels he doesn't "know it all" be any means

[DriveFor1Outta5]

he has said this type of thing a lot "I'm always trying to keep learning, from anyone I can talk to in this business"... seems like he feels he doesn't "know it all" be any means

He might become a great coach. I'm not insulting by any means. I just feel that actions speak louder than words. His actions show that he is very confident (arrogant)? in knowing what's best for this franchise. With Pegulas blessing he has taken over this franchise. If he knows what he's doing it will be the best thing to happen to us. If he doesn't it will be his power that is his downfall. Edited May 5, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[JohnC]

Likewise.

 

Some questionable moves this offseason that I thought were Whaleys doing. Obviously not.

 

Hopefully McEgo knows what he's doing.

 

Have to think there will be some humility if the team wins 6 games in his first year.

The spin is going to be that the team is rebuilding. The truth is that it really is. I foresee that many of the Whaley selections are going to be steadily, if not, rapidly dispatched. The loyalists who are talking playoffs in the not too distant future will be silent. The talk will revert to the next qb class and the hillbilly behavior at the tailgate parties.

[JohnC]

They are certainly letting talent walk and I don't see the reason for it other then McEgo wanting his own players in here.

 

Still talent is talent and there's no reason to let that go just because you didn't acquire/draft them. But we've been down this road before with the coach you mentioned earlier(GW).

 

Will be interesting to see how it plays out with Watkins. Can't see many people being on board with the new GM/coach after a losing season and waving bye bye to Watkins. That wouldn't be rebuilding, that would be stupid.

I understand your sentiment but I respectfully disagree with you. This team as it is currently constructed is a 6 to 7 win team. The Rex fiasco set this team back by years. This team has less talent than people want to believe. What is revealing is that its record against good teams is stunningly bad. The inability to win against good teams is a more accurate assessment as to where this team actually stands. Do you remember the Steeler game where Bell was not only running roughshod over our defense but exposed us a team that deserved to be mocked and ridiculed? Don't believe the frustrated devotees who want to believe that we are better than we actually are. This team and organization is wretchedly mediocre. And is now being rebuilt from the inside to the outside.

 

I have a lot of concerns about the new wrestling coach. I have a lot of concerns as to how the football operation is being structured with the HC essentially being the defacto GM. But what is obvious to me is that under this new regime their intent is not to tinker but to de-construct and then re-construct. Don't believe anyone who tells you that with a few modifications this team will be back in contention. It won't because we are now so far back. This is not a quick fix job. Don't buy the delusion that others are trying to peddle.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I understand your sentiment but I respectfully disagree with you. This team as it is currently constructed is a 6 to 7 win team. The Rex fiasco set this team back by years. This team has less talent than people want to believe. What is revealing is that its record against good teams is stunningly bad. The inability to win against good teams is a more accurate assessment as to where this team actually stands. Do you remember the Steeler game where Bell was not only running roughshod over our defense but exposed us a team that deserved to be mocked and ridiculed? Don't believe the frustrated devotees who want to believe that we are better than we actually are. This team and organization is wretchedly mediocre. And is now being rebuilt from the inside to the outside.

 

I have a lot of concerns about the new wrestling coach. I have a lot of concerns as to how the football operation is being structured with the HC essentially being the defacto GM. But what is obvious to me is that under this new regime their intent is not to tinker but to de-construct and then re-construct. Don't believe anyone who tells you that with a few modifications this team will be back in contention. It won't because we are now so far back. This is not a quick fix job. Don't buy the delusion that others are trying to peddle.

I think it's crazy and scary for Pegula to give a first year coach so much power. However, I agree with your general premise. This team isn't "close". We have a a few good players, but nothing more. There are a ton of holes in this roster. It is a poorly constructed roster that was developed without a coherent plan. I was talking football with my father the other night and checked out our depth chart. I said to him "this isn't going to be a good season". We have nothing at safety or linebacker. That isn't even taking into account the offensive side of the ball. As usual some fans will overvalue our players. This causes too many Bills fans to believe that we "should be better".

[JohnC]

I think it's crazy and scary for Pegula to give a first year coach so much power. However, I agree with your general premise. This team isn't "close". We have a a few good players, but nothing more. There are a ton of holes in this roster. It is a poorly constructed roster that was developed without a coherent plan. I was talking football with my father the other night and checked out our depth chart. I said to him "this isn't going to be a good season". We have nothing at safety or linebacker. That isn't even taking into account the offensive side of the ball. As usual some fans will overvalue our players. This causes too many Bills fans to believe that we "should be better".

For a very long time the inherent flaw within the organization was that there was a lack of coherency within the organization and the coaching staff. That incoherence was inevitable because it was a byproduct of the front office, coaching and system changes. Although there are great risks with this strong man HCing approach it can work if the people brought into the organization as a GM other front office positions can form a good working relationship that includes being able to challenge one another and work out different points of view. If McDermott is simply going to pull rank instead of being receptive to contrary points then there is going to be trouble.

 

I strongly believe that if there is going to be any noteworthy success for this bedraggled franchise the issue comes down to acquiring a credible starting qb. In my view the new staff had the opportunity to acquire a qb with their first round pick this year but the decision was made to pass. Not a surprise. (Please fellow posters don't bring up Peterman. I don't want to hear it.) Whatever else is accomplished on the roster unless the qb issue is addressed little else will matter.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

For a very long time the inherent flaw within the organization was that there was a lack of coherency within the organization and the coaching staff. That incoherence was inevitable because it was a byproduct of the front office, coaching and system changes. Although there are great risks with this strong man HCing approach it can work if the people brought into the organization as a GM other front office positions can form a good working relationship that includes being able to challenge one another and work out different points of view. If McDermott is simply going to pull rank instead of being receptive to contrary points then there is going to be trouble.

 

I strongly believe that if there is going to be any noteworthy success for this bedraggled franchise the issue comes down to acquiring a credible starting qb. In my view the new staff had the opportunity to acquire a qb with their first round pick this year but the decision was made to pass. Not a surprise. (Please fellow posters don't bring up Peterman. I don't want to hear it.) Whatever else is accomplished on the roster unless the qb issue is addressed little else will matter.

Good post. You made great points regarding what McDermott needs to do to be successful. This is why I view him as a boom or bust coach. It will either go very well, or very poorly.

 

I do believe that his success or lack of depends on more than just QB. No one is going to say that QB isn't the most important position on the field. Championship teams need to have a franchise QB. We have been looking for an answer at that position for years. It isn't the only reason we haven't made the playoffs. We have failed to field soild roster top to bottom rosters. Factor in the lack of a QB and we have been on a road to nowhere.

 

Having a QB allows for mistakes to be made elsewhere when building a team. If you don't have one you must do everything perfectly. It's also unlikely you'll win a championship without a QB. It doesn't mean you can't be a playoff team. Look at the starting QB's on this years playoff teams. They didn't all have franchise QB's. With well constructed rosters they snuck into the playoffs. If we could be that team no one will be complaining about McDermott. A playoff appearance would buy his regime time. Eventually with time you will find a QB. Before that time you can't just raise the white flag, or say nothing else matters. McDermott's success will depend on his own abilities. It won't depend on just the luck of finding a QB. Bad GM's can find their QB and still field bad teams. Just ask Andrew Luck and Drew Brees.