jeffismagic Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 You know, I have rolled my eyes at you many times, but I think that you have the right idea of where things stand with regards to this draft, in particular given how the org structure looks currently. While the draft made sense to me, and I dig that the Bills have another first rounder next year, one wonders what will happen when an unproven HC is suddenly the dominant voice in the product that they field. I like the McD hire, but am shocked at how fast he's ascended. My point is not that a Coach draft can't work. A coach draft will get high draft grades from TV pundits. A coach draft will help the coach that year. But the problem with this approach is that eventually the talent will be less as other players age. Bills already had a roster in decline. I see this as bringing them down within 2 years.
Guest NeckBeard Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 My point is not that a Coach draft can't work. A coach draft will get high draft grades from TV pundits. A coach draft will help the coach that year. But the problem with this approach is that eventually the talent will be less as other players age. Bills already had a roster in decline. I see this as bringing them down within 2 years. Please explain "roster in decline" to us. The roster has been marginal for years, and I am having problems parsing how 7-9 becomes worse, with the same talent, some new additions, and with better coaching.
jeffismagic Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Please explain "roster in decline" to us. The roster has been marginal for years, and I am having problems parsing how 7-9 becomes worse, with the same talent, some new additions, and with better coaching. Players age and players leave. You need to draft well to maintain or improve. My assessment is that our roster's defense peaked in 2014 and offense was 2015. Both are now worse and heading down.
Augie Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 A "Coach draft" can be many different things. Some coaches actually have some foresight and want to be good in coming years as well. I do love that we picked up an extra first next year. Was this a coach draft? I'm not advocating short term thinking, just balanced thinking.
quinnearlysghost88 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Please explain "roster in decline" to us. The roster has been marginal for years, and I am having problems parsing how 7-9 becomes worse, with the same talent, some new additions, and with better coaching. i think he meant the roster is in recline.
Guest NeckBeard Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Players age and players leave. You need to draft well to maintain or improve. My assessment is that our roster's defense peaked in 2014 and offense was 2015. Both are now worse and heading down. I still see a 7-9 squad, and if coaching and talent acquisition actually improve, I don't see such a decline.
thunderingsquid Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 All I know is that I don't want Brian Gaine. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/5/3/15532552/buffalo-bills-interviewing-brian-gaine-for-gm-job-houston-texans-director-player-personnel
Guest NeckBeard Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 i think he meant the roster is in recline. Yes, I got that, but a "talented" roster who goes 7-9 with bad coaching should level out with good coaching, assuming that the roster has had new contributors -- regardless of whether or not it has been impacted by age and/or players who leave, right? At this point I am more focused on coaching and how talent acquisition shakes out more than roster changes on its own.
jeffismagic Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Yes, I got that, but a "talented" roster who goes 7-9 with bad coaching should level out with good coaching, assuming that the roster has had new contributors -- regardless of whether or not it has been impacted by age and/or players who leave, right? At this point I am more focused on coaching and how talent acquisition shakes out more than roster changes on its own. If the roster was talented then why did every scout and Whaley get fired? Just trying to understand what people are saying now.
Guest NeckBeard Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 If the roster was talented then why did every scout and Whaley get fired? Just trying to understand what people are saying now. Usually when a GM is fired, that leads to scouting getting purged as well. People got fired because ownership put money into a roster that underperformed for 2 years, and with drafts that didn't yield good ROI. I don't think there's anything more to it than that. I was as surprised as anyone that both Rex and DW weren't fired on the same day, not because I had thought that DW should have been fired (I didn't hate DW), but because rebooting the org has happened in several disjointed phases.
Chuck Wagon Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Please explain "roster in decline" to us. The roster has been marginal for years, and I am having problems parsing how 7-9 becomes worse, with the same talent, some new additions, and with better coaching. Off the 2015 team we've lost Woods, Mario, Aaron Williams, Corey Graham, Gillislee, Karlos Williams, Lawson, Gillmore and Robey, those are the headliners. All played significant roles in 2015 and/or 2016. We've replaced them with Shaq Lawson and Micah Hyde (neither have shown they are Mario or Williams/Graham good) and a whole bunch of bargain free agents and rookies, aka guys who are far from proven at the NFL level. AT BEST (and this is the most optimistic view on guys who haven't played a down) we are at equal talent of where we stood 2 years ago. At best. We certainly aren't more talented. We've either let a lot of proven talent walk or they've aged out, we are largely replacing that talent base with very unproven players, I think it's pretty easy for someone to say our talent has been eroding.
Guest NeckBeard Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Off the 2015 team we've lost Woods, Mario, Aaron Williams, Corey Graham, Gillislee, Karlos Williams, Lawson, Gillmore and Robey, those are the headliners. All played significant roles in 2015 and/or 2016. We've replaced them with Shaq Lawson and Micah Hyde (neither have shown they are Mario or Williams/Graham good) and a whole bunch of bargain free agents and rookies, aka guys who are far from proven at the NFL level. AT BEST (and this is the most optimistic view on guys who haven't played a down) we are at equal talent of where we stood 2 years ago. At best. We certainly aren't more talented. We've either let a lot of proven talent walk or they've aged out, we are largely replacing that talent base with very unproven players, I think it's pretty easy for someone to say our talent has been eroding. That's a mixed bag of examples. To be fair, you really need to exclude Aaron Williams. It wasn't a talent issue or a coaching issue with him; that dude had a dire health issue that was caused by enduring flack on the field, and any sane organization would not let him play ever again. You also included Super Mario (quit on team, was terrible elsewhere), Karlos (flamed out), and Corey Graham (is he still not signed?). Woods was a bummer, as was Gilmore, and Robey is a wildcard to me on the Rams, but to your point, I NEVER made the argument that we are more talented now. I was just stating that the Bills are not in decline given the roster moves, as you have stated above. The Bills, if the roster has parity (or slightly less) in terms of talent, should be the same or better with improved coaching and roster moves in the future.
YoloinOhio Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Sounds like they haven't requested an interview yet with Veach http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/red-zone/article148435184.html
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 All I know is that I don't want Brian Gaine. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/5/3/15532552/buffalo-bills-interviewing-brian-gaine-for-gm-job-houston-texans-director-player-personnel Not saying I do, but I'd like to understand your reasons for saying this Sounds like they haven't requested an interview yet with Veach http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/red-zone/article148435184.html Geesh, he looks like a guy who would come by to pick up my kid for prom.
BillsFan17 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Its total control of the 53 man roster. Meaning Gase and quinn have final say over who makes the roster. The GM has say as to who he brings in, and constructs the the 90man. And that's fully what I expect McDermott to be doing. The writing was on the wall for Whaley, hard to know in this situation if McDermott will be Coach/GM type because the front office situation wasn't overly stable. That being said, how McDermott has conducted things this far, I feel pretty comfortable with him making the calls he has.
thunderingsquid Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Not saying I do, but I'd like to understand your reasons for saying this If he had any hand in the Brock Osweiler mess I don't think he's our kind of guy. They passed on Derek Carr while he was in the room too.
26CornerBlitz Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 @RapSheet #Panthers assistant GM Brandon Beane is flying today & interviewing with the #Bills for their GM opening tomorrow, source said. @MikeGarafolo Mike Garafolo Retweeted Ian Rapoport No request made for Panthers' Don Gregory yet but I am told he is on their list. Interview could come soon.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 @RapSheet #Panthers assistant GM Brandon Beane is flying today & interviewing with the #Bills for their GM opening tomorrow, source said. @MikeGarafolo Mike Garafolo Retweeted Ian Rapoport No request made for Panthers' Don Gregory yet but I am told he is on their list. Interview could come soon. Forget Gregory. We all but know that this is a formality, McD is going to run the show, Brandon will handle the cap and be, here it comes, a Beane counter.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 maybe it's just me, so IGNORE if you want......it seems like the perennial contenders lose players via FA, retirement or injury, have a decent draft or two, fill in gaps via FA and for the most part STILL contend....yet Bflo NEVER seems to have been in that position since the Polian era....EVERY year it's "MAJOR HOLES"......cannot put the entire onus on the players coming through the gate.....so I look at the patchwork FO/Administration post BP with the ineptitude of non-football people attempting to steer the rudder...where does the blame lie??......just curious..........
YoloinOhio Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) Beane's interview will consist of the classic "role play" where he is asked to sign a hypothetical FA TE named Shmary Schmarnidge and a S Schme Schmoston claimed on waivers. If all goes well he picks out his office supplies and is introduced to a real estate agent who conveniently has a newly listed house right in OP perfect for a GM. Edited May 3, 2017 by YoloinOhio
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