BADOLBILZ Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 I don't believe the Saints have won a game started by a QB they drafted since Danny Wuerffel in 1998 (drafted in '97 - and yeah, I had to look that up). Been to playoffs 6x in that interval. So not sure what your point is? You need a QB but you don't necessarily have to draft him I know. It was an observation. I find it interesting that a team could not draft a QB that won a game for them in a 34 year period..........that seems unlikely. Saints have had one man..... Drew Brees.....as their regular starting QB for ELEVEN of those 19 seasons. Chiefs haven't had any QB start more than half of their games for more than FIVE seasons in that span.....so they've gone thru A LOT of QB's to manage not to have one they drafted win a game..........really no comparing the two situations.
Putin Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 IF they used Carolina's draft board, that's BS. IF true, how can a guy (McDermott) demand high character players when he and his staff cheat in their first draft? Only asking the question IF proven true.
dave mcbride Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) I know. It was an observation. I find it interesting that a team could not draft a QB that won a game for them in a 34 year period..........that seems unlikely. Saints have had one man..... Drew Brees.....as their regular starting QB for ELEVEN of those 19 seasons. Chiefs haven't had any QB start more than half of their games for more than FIVE seasons in that span.....so they've gone thru A LOT of QB's to manage not to have one they drafted win a game..........really no comparing the two situations. They are very comparable; see my post above. The Saints haven't had a starter they've drafted (beyond a fill-in game for a backup) since 1986 (Dave Wilson). That's 31 years! http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/193705-gm-doug-whaley-has-been-fired/?p=4365353 . Also if you take out the two years Dave Wilson started for them, you have to go back to Archie Manning to find a starting QB that they drafted. They had a late Kenny Stabler era, after all. Edited May 3, 2017 by dave mcbride
Boatdrinks Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 No the Jets are hedging their bets. That is what we are doing now... taking long shots in the 4th and 5th round every year. The Jets have spent 2nds on Geno and Hack and a 3rd / 4th on Petty in the 3 or 4 years before this one.... I prefer what Kansas City and Houston have just done over that.... every day of the week. Identify a guy you really like and then be aggressive. But what if you really don't like those guys? Do you take them high in hopes it will make them better? If you don't believe they have what it takes to be a franchise QB, don't take them. If you do, well .. EJ Manuel
GG Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Yeah I know, I am just reiterating this from another person in the know for those who still think otherwise, of which there are a lot... That's who my post was directed at. Some people have a hard time letting go of ingrained beliefs. That's why is was surprising to read Kryk' s piece. Thanks for the reiteration.
GunnerBill Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 But what if you really don't like those guys? Do you take them high in hopes it will make them better? If you don't believe they have what it takes to be a franchise QB, don't take them. If you do, well .. EJ Manuel If the Bills really didn't like anyone in this class then I just think their evaluations are wrong. Time will tell who was right on that. But of course I am not arguing teams should pick QBs they don't believe in.... and that isn't what the Bills did with EJ. The Bills did believe in him. They got an evaluation wrong.... but under the new CBA getting it wrong being bold costs you no more in real terms than getting it wrong being cautious.
jeffismagic Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 If the Bills really didn't like anyone in this class then I just think their evaluations are wrong. Time will tell who was right on that. But of course I am not arguing teams should pick QBs they don't believe in.... and that isn't what the Bills did with EJ. The Bills did believe in him. They got an evaluation wrong.... but under the new CBA getting it wrong being bold costs you no more in real terms than getting it wrong being cautious. Actually, we don't know that the Bills didn't like anyone in the class. The Bills scouts and Whaley put in the work but it was up to Sean McDermott to decide who he wanted. All we know is that Sean didn't want a QB, not if that QB had a high draft grade on the Bills board.
ndirish1978 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 The shakeup in the FO was not known by anyone but folks at the top for a long time. I went on what info I had received at the time. Because getting rid of LeSean was contingent upon that? Everyone and their momma was aware Whaley was on his way out. You ripped off a fake news headline and then disappeared from the board once you got called out on it.
Buffalo86 Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Good take, very savvy on Pegs' part. The sleeping giant has awoken! The Pegulas haven't been the NFL too long, so they don't know what works. Figuring out what wasn't working was the next best thing, and a good first step. Perhaps TPegs is a George Costanza fan? Either way, no more tuna on toast for Terry. Chicken salad, on rye, untoasted... and a cup of tea.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Truth is Whaley was good. It was a mistake to fire him. I think the truth, probably differing from a lot of fan speculation, that Whaley is a quite good talent evaluator, a middle-of-the-road people manager (which is a lot of a GM's role), and still developing at the skill of valuing a player or a contract. I think he left a lot of that to Monos and Overdorf, and mistakes were made. I don't think he was fired for messing up the EJ pick or the Sammy pick or any other pick or trade. I think he was fired for lacking consistency and oversight into decisions affecting the cap and into contract provisions.
Augie Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 I think the truth, probably differing from a lot of fan speculation, that Whaley is a quite good talent evaluator, a middle-of-the-road people manager (which is a lot of a GM's role), and still developing at the skill of valuing a player or a contract. I think he left a lot of that to Monos and Overdorf, and mistakes were made. I don't think he was fired for messing up the EJ pick or the Sammy pick or any other pick or trade. I think he was fired for lacking consistency and oversight into decisions affecting the cap and into contract provisions. I think a lot of that is true.
Yav Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Truth is Whaley was good. It was a mistake to fire him. It's only a mistake if his successor sucks.
Simon Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Talking with a guy at work who is friends with one of the only remaining people in the Bills FO and a guy who is in line to become higher up once the new regime is hired, said Whaley knew he was getting fired post draft for at least a month beforehand. Claims Whaley was a glorified scout and was not effective at the day to day operations a GM should be doing. I still maintain letting the Pro Personnel department go was a mistake with how many gems they have uncovered over the last 5 years off the waiver wire and low budget FA's, but I guess they wanted to clean it out. Also said that Russ Brandon has absolutely ZERO to do with anything front office related on either team, other than perhaps doing some type of interviews or sitting in on interviews with potential hires. He is strictly on the business side now... FWIW... He also said Whaley had ZERO to do with hiring the new coach...Pegula basically took his recommendations and then made the decisions they wanted to with or without his approval on it. Really wish I would have asked him about what is going on with Watkins...will next time I see him. With all due respect matter, I would suggest you take anything that your work buddy's friend says with a truckload of salt because from what I understand virtually everything you've been told is entirely mistaken. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just figured I would take one last shot at trying to clear up inaccurate information before it becomes a false narrative. Although 90% of posters are going to be believe whatever it is they want to be true so it's likely a fruitless effort. Y'all take care.
jeffismagic Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 With all due respect matter, I would suggest you take anything that your work buddy's friend says with a truckload of salt because from what I understand virtually everything you've been told is entirely mistaken. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just figured I would take one last shot at trying to clear up inaccurate information before it becomes a false narrative. Although 90% of posters are going to be believe whatever it is they want to be true so it's likely a fruitless effort. Y'all take care. Thank you.
Bill_with_it Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Talking with a guy at work who is friends with one of the only remaining people in the Bills FO and a guy who is in line to become higher up once the new regime is hired, said Whaley knew he was getting fired post draft for at least a month beforehand. Claims Whaley was a glorified scout and was not effective at the day to day operations a GM should be doing. I still maintain letting the Pro Personnel department go was a mistake with how many gems they have uncovered over the last 5 years off the waiver wire and low budget FA's, but I guess they wanted to clean it out. Also said that Russ Brandon has absolutely ZERO to do with anything front office related on either team, other than perhaps doing some type of interviews or sitting in on interviews with potential hires. He is strictly on the business side now... FWIW... The notion or narrative you provided is certainly plausible.
jeffismagic Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 The notion or narrative you provided is certainly plausible. Yeah, sounds like a narrative coming from Brandon's boys.
Bill_with_it Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 Yeah, sounds like a narrative coming from Brandon's boys. What it sounds like is awfully similar to that end of year Im not privy presser.
jeffismagic Posted May 4, 2017 Posted May 4, 2017 What it sounds like is awfully similar to that end of year Im not privy presser. Which doesn't match the facts uncovered by the Buffalo News as far as timeline.
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