JohnC Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 He also said Whaley had ZERO to do with hiring the new coach...Pegula basically took his recommendations and then made the decisions they wanted to with or without his approval on it. Really wish I would have asked him about what is going on with Watkins...will next time I see him. Pegula is working hard to fix the dysfunction that he contributed to. I'm on record that I am very uncomfortable with Pegula giving the new HC such wide ranging authority within the organization. It is a recipe for disaster. Except for the exceptional cases where the empowered HC basically has the overall authority such as Belichick, Carroll and Reid it is not a wise road to go especially for a new HC.
BringBackOrton Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Let's be honest it is also about having the right environment to develop a QB. Prescott and Russell Wilson were drafted to pretty stacked teams that were able to play to their strenghts and mask their weaknesses. Prescott was gifted a great O-line, a beastly running back, and a defense that had a great year, his rookie year success could come down. Russell Wilson was drafted to a team that had a very good O-line at that time, a Hall of Fame running back in Lynch, and an all time great defense. Wilson has since matured into a great player as ironically the talent around him has dipped he has gotten better as a player. Derek Carr was the only player drafted into a **** situation that turned it around and developed into a very good player with a lot of potential. So I am curious how much of it is the player and how much of it is the situation. Would Big Ben been a great player had he been drafted by the Bills? I don't know if he would have developed into the same player honestly. I hope that the Bills do turn it around as an organization. I think Tyrod can be a QB that gets you to the playoffs but I am not sure how much he elevates a offenses talent. Honestly it might be a combination of right player, right place, right time in a lot of circumstances which is why finding QB's is so hard. The "stacked" team Dak Prescott got drafted to went 4-12 the year before. Making that two GMs in a row that were over their heads. It was obvious that Whaley had no plan or strategy. He picked guys he loved and that was it.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 John, you're absolutely entitled to complain about the dunderheaded QB moves made (or not made) by the Bills in the past, such as passing on Wilson and Cousins in the middle of the drafted, but those moves have nothing to do with the current regime and in fact, most recently the Bills' FA acquisition of Tryrod Taylor ranks as the best FA quarterback acquisition of the past decade, and it's not even close. And the Bills have drafted two QB's in the past two drafts, both of whom might turn out to be very good. So cheer up! I like Tyrod a lot, but Peyton brought Denver a Super Bowl.
JohnC Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 John, you're absolutely entitled to complain about the dunderheaded QB moves made (or not made) by the Bills in the past, such as passing on Wilson and Cousins in the middle of the drafted, but those moves have nothing to do with the current regime and in fact, most recently the Bills' FA acquisition of Tryrod Taylor ranks as the best FA quarterback acquisition of the past decade, and it's not even close. And the Bills have drafted two QB's in the past two drafts, both of whom might turn out to be very good. So cheer up! Where we have an irreconcilable difference is that you are rating TT much higher than I am. Taylor may be our best FA quarterback acquisition over the past decade but that doesn't mean that he is a legitimate franchise qb in this league. If Taylor was such a gem of a qb why did he take a cut in his salary and alter the terms of his contract so the team would be less obligated to keep him after a year?
Big Turk Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 And here I thought you'd bring up the blind epileptic squirrel as the example of a friendly hit. Which has been made abundantly clear for a while now by anyone who's been reporting on the team. Yeah I know, I am just reiterating this from another person in the know for those who still think otherwise, of which there are a lot...
BringBackOrton Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 John, you're absolutely entitled to complain about the dunderheaded QB moves made (or not made) by the Bills in the past, such as passing on Wilson and Cousins in the middle of the drafted, but those moves have nothing to do with the current regime and in fact, most recently the Bills' FA acquisition of Tryrod Taylor ranks as the best FA quarterback acquisition of the past decade, and it's not even close. And the Bills have drafted two QB's in the past two drafts, both of whom might turn out to be very good. So cheer up! Peyton with two Super Bowl appearances, one ring, top 2 offense for like 3 years straight, multiple playoff wins and multiple 11+ win seasons? Not even close to 15-15 with TT? Seriously?
HappyDays Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) People love to cite the obvious guys that turned out, but completely ignore the ones that do not. How great would we be right now if, in the last 3 years, the Bills drafted Paxton Lynch, Christian Hackenburg, Garret Grayson, and Johnny Manziel instead of Shaq Lawson, Reggie Ragland, Ronald Darby, and Sammy Watkins? They reached for E.J. Manuel when clearly his grade didn't have him that high. Same thing with the quarterback class this year. It was weak. It was filled with a bunch of guys that ALL had obvious flaws. I live in Chicago, and I haven't found a single person here yet that gets trading up for Trubisky. Tell me as we sit here today if the Jets, with hindsight, would rather have Deion Jones than Christian Hackenburg, or whether they're OK holding onto Geno Smith in lieu of Jamie Collins. Whaley has been a "reacher" his whole tenure. I'm glad that ended with this draft honestly. This is exactly right, and I've seen at least a few Bills fans that wanted each one of those failed QBs. There's a reason Carr is the only name mentioned in these discussions - he's literally the only QB picked between 3 and 33 that has worked out since Joe Flacco, and before Flacco it was Aaron Rodgers. QBs taken there have an abysmal rate of success. And you know what, you can still say that your favorite QB from this draft will buck the trend, it's a reasonable opinion. What isn't reasonable is to go nuts and accuse the Bills of making a bad pick because they decided not to add another name to the list of awful QBs drafted in that range. Edited May 3, 2017 by HappyDays
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 This is except right, and I've seen at least a few Bills fans that wanted each one of those failed QBs. There's a reason Carr is the only name mentioned in these discussions - he's literally the only QB picked between 3 and 33 that has worked out since Joe Flacco, and before Flacco it was Aaron Rodgers. QBs taken there have an abysmal rate of success. And you know what, you can still say that your favorite QB from this draft will buck the trend, it's a reasonable opinion. What isn't reasonable is to go nuts and accuse the Bills of making a bad pick because they decided not to add another name to the list of awful QBs drafted in that range. Carr was picked 36
BringBackOrton Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 This is exactly right, and I've seen at least a few Bills fans that wanted each one of those failed QBs. There's a reason Carr is the only name mentioned in these discussions - he's literally the only QB picked between 3 and 33 that has worked out since Joe Flacco, and before Flacco it was Aaron Rodgers. QBs taken there have an abysmal rate of success. And you know what, you can still say that your favorite QB from this draft will buck the trend, it's a reasonable opinion. What isn't reasonable is to go nuts and accuse the Bills of making a bad pick because they decided not to add another name to the list of awful QBs drafted in that range. Almost all QB's picked past the first round suck too. It's not like all the second, third, fourth, and fifth round QB's kill it every year compared to #3 to #33.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Talking with a guy at work who is friends with one of the only remaining people in the Bills FO and a guy who is in line to become higher up once the new regime is hired, said Whaley knew he was getting fired post draft for at least a month beforehand. Claims Whaley was a glorified scout and was not effective at the day to day operations a GM should be doing. I still maintain letting the Pro Personnel department go was a mistake with how many gems they have uncovered over the last 5 years off the waiver wire and low budget FA's, but I guess they wanted to clean it out. Also said that Russ Brandon has absolutely ZERO to do with anything front office related on either team, other than perhaps doing some type of interviews or sitting in on interviews with potential hires. He is strictly on the business side now... FWIW... All the noise sure makes it seem this decision wasn't made "after running a process upon the conclusion of the draft"... I sure wish Terry hadn't chosen to stand there and regurgitate this fabricated story line. Lost a bit of respect there. Could have handled it more honestly or just said he wasn't going to get into the details of the firing.
Big Turk Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 All the noise sure makes it seem this decision wasn't made "after running a process upon the conclusion of the draft"... I sure wish Terry hadn't chosen to stand there and regurgitate this fabricated story line. Lost a bit of respect there. Could have handled it more honestly or just said he wasn't going to get into the details of the firing. Maybe what happened during the draft only enforced his decision more?
GunnerBill Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 This is exactly right, and I've seen at least a few Bills fans that wanted each one of those failed QBs. For the record I didn't want any of those Quarterbacks. Wouldn't have touched Manziel or Lynch with a barge pole and while you will find me saying some positive things about Hack years ago by the time he came out he was on my do not draft list as well. Garret Grayson wasn't even good enough to waste my time evaluating. I am always honest enough to say when I miss. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 and he looks like he is going to end up no better than a bottom end starter if last season is anything to go by.
mannc Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Peyton with two Super Bowl appearances, one ring, top 2 offense for like 3 years straight, multiple playoff wins and multiple 11+ win seasons? Not even close to 15-15 with TT? Seriously? Oops😆
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) Maybe what happened during the draft only enforced his decision more?I don't think so:- scouts reported it was coming a week ago - Whales had the look of dead man walking and some board rumor mills connected to the org said he knew it was coming - word about the change being stipulated in McD s employment agreement - Whaley was never in front of a microphone again after McD hiring it sounds a lot to me like this decision was locked in long ago and they just kept the guys around to keep their draftboard and strategy private. Edited May 3, 2017 by Over 28 years of fanhood
HappyDays Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Carr was picked 36 Huh somehow in my memory he was the first pick of the 2nd round but you're right. Almost all QB's picked past the first round suck too. It's not like all the second, third, fourth, and fifth round QB's kill it every year compared to #3 to #33. Yeah but my point is there really isn't much separation lately between them. Carr, Wilson, Prescott have been just as successful as any 3 1st round QBs from the same time period. Hell Trevor Siemian played better than almost every QB picked between 3 and 33. So if I'm trying to find a QB I'm looking for the sleeper in the later rounds while still grabbing another blue chip player in the 1st. And I'm DEFINITELY not using TWO 1st round picks on someone that falls out of the top 2. History shows that is a very very bad bet.
Guest NeckBeard Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 I don't think so: - scouts reported it was coming a week ago - Whales had the look of dead man walking and some board rumor mills connected to the org said he knew it was coming - word about the change being stipulated in McD s employment agreement - Whaley was never in front of a microphone again after McD hiring it sounds a lot to me like this decision was locked in long ago and they just kept the guys around to keep their draftboard and strategy private. If it's true that the org retained the GM and the entire scouting staff before a draft, while knowing that they were going to clean house afterwards, then this is the very definition of incompetence. "Yes," they said, "let's get one last draft out of them, and then we clean house." Considering the last 2 Bills drafts, that would be an oddity, and it boggles the mind if ownership literally did not think of a contingency plan for the talent end of the house before the 2017 draft. I'm not crying for Whaley, and I've written here before that I think he was a B-/C type of GM, but man... you wonder at times how the wealthiest are not also the most proactive.
Luxy312 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 I like Tyrod a lot, but Peyton The Denver Broncos defense brought Denver a Super Bowl. Fixed that for you.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 Fixed that for you. in 2011 the Broncos offense was 23rd in the NFL, 25th in scoring. In 2012 they acquired Peyton Manning. 2012: 4th & 2nd 2013: 1st & 1st 2014: 4th & 2nd 2015 the defense took over.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 I think I heard the other day that the Chiefs haven't WON A GAME started by a QB they have drafted since Todd Blackledge, who they drafted in 1983? That's hilarious.......but Andy Reid is a different story. I don't believe the Saints have won a game started by a QB they drafted since Danny Wuerffel in 1998 (drafted in '97 - and yeah, I had to look that up). Been to playoffs 6x in that interval. So not sure what your point is? You need a QB but you don't necessarily have to draft him
Kelly the Dog Posted May 3, 2017 Posted May 3, 2017 I don't believe the Saints have won a game started by a QB they drafted since Danny Wuerffel in 1998 (drafted in '97 - and yeah, I had to look that up). Been to playoffs 6x in that interval. So not sure what your point is? You need a QB but you don't necessarily have to draft him I never understood that idea. There is no question a team that drafts well has a good chance to always be competitive. But it doesn't matter one bit whether your team has high draft picks, low draft picks, UDFA, street FA, trades, or big name free agent signings. Granted, continuity is much, much better and you don't want new guys every year, but it doesn't matter where you get them, you need to get good ones and coach them well and keep the best ones and make good cap decisions.
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