GM Doug Whaley has been fired

[jeffismagic]

I dont know if anyone seen this:

 

Per reporter Vic Carucci, Whaley's firing was "fulfillment of a condition of McDermott's employment." This had been the rumor for months. It's a little surprising the Bills were willing to go through the public motions for weeks on end, but then again, they're not a good franchise. They're hoping McDermott will change that. May 1 - 2:59 PM

Source: Buffalo News

One of those places was the NFL's Personnel Development Committee, which includes former Bills GM and Hall-of-Famer Bill Polian. Polian, fellow Hall-of-Famers Ron Wolf, Tony Dungy, John Madden and other committee members submitted a list of candidates that was distributed to all of the owners of teams searching for a new coach. McDermott's name jumped out at the Pegulas and they promptly made him the first of four candidates they would interview.

It was notable that, the day before the "formal" interview that would include Whaley and former director of player personnel Jim Monos, the Pegulas invited McDermott to join them for dinner on their yacht in Boca Raton, Fla.

He had the Pegulas at "hello." He impressed them so much, that as Kim drove McDermott to the airport after the next day's six-hour session, she was already telling him to have his wife (who had been invited to Boca Raton as well, but couldn't make the trip) call her for information about housing and other essentials in Western New York.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/01/vic-caruccis-bills-wake-call-new-gm-wont-change-structure/

 

How can someone's name alone "jump out" at the Pegulas? Then they finally meet the guy before the actual football interview is to take place with Whaley and they fall in love so hard they decided to hand the coaching job AND the GM job to Sean McDermott.

[oldmanfan]

I dont know if anyone seen this:

 

Per reporter Vic Carucci, Whaley's firing was "fulfillment of a condition of McDermott's employment." This had been the rumor for months. It's a little surprising the Bills were willing to go through the public motions for weeks on end, but then again, they're not a good franchise. They're hoping McDermott will change that. May 1 - 2:59 PM

Source: Buffalo News

So Vic has a copy of McD's contract?

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Well, yes, but the second pillar of Jeffismagic's campaign is that Tyrod sucks and failing to take Mahomes at 10 doomed the Bills to another 17 years of failure. Mahomes may well turn out to be great, but if at the same time, Tyrod proves to be more than a bridge QB or if Cardale or Peterman become franchise QBs, then his "Mahomes or Bust" rallying cry will have been entirely misguided.

I somewhat disagree. I'm not worried because I don't envision Mahomes becoming a franchise QB. If he does become a franchise QB it's a blunder this team might not live down. If TT becomes our solution at QB he will be 32 or 33 years of age when Mahomes rookie contract runs out. With TT's style of play I believe his career could be towards the end at that point. Regardless of what TT does for us the next four or five years we might need someone soon after. If Mahomes is a franchise QB at that point we will be regretting that selection. On the other hand if Peterson becomes our franchise QB it doesn't really matter what Mahomes does. I just can't see Peterson becoming that guy. I think his ceiling is being a good backup.

[bbb]

Plunkett, Manning, and Pastorini went 1-2-3 in the early 70s, look it up.

 

Maybe this has already been said, but Couch, McNabb and Smith also - in 1999

 

[Guest NeckBeard]

I somewhat disagree. I'm not worried because I don't envision Mahomes becoming a franchise QB. If he does become a franchise QB it's a blunder this team might not live down. If TT becomes our solution at QB he will be 32 or 33 years of age when Mahomes rookie contract runs out. With TT's style of play I believe his career could be towards the end at that point. Regardless of what TT does for us the next four or five years we might need someone soon after. If Mahomes is a franchise QB at that point we will be regretting that selection. On the other hand if Peterson becomes our franchise QB it doesn't really matter what Mahomes does. I just can't see Peterson becoming that guy. I think his ceiling is being a good backup.

 

This team won't have to live down any blunders so long as they pick a great QB soon, okay, in 2018. :-)

 

It's not like Mahomes was the only player who could have ever brought success to this team at the QB position, and I write this as somebody who was hoping that the Bills would take Mahomes. The draft made pretty good sense to me overall, Mahomes or not, and if the organization works out the way it does talent evaluation before 2018, that extra first rounder could be super awesome in terms of getting the QB I know we all desire. In no way am I hitching my Bills fandom wagon to whether or not Mahomes succeeds in KC.

Edited May 2, 2017 by NeckBeard

[oldmanfan]

I somewhat disagree. I'm not worried because I don't envision Mahomes becoming a franchise QB. If he does become a franchise QB it's a blunder this team might not live down. If TT becomes our solution at QB he will be 32 or 33 years of age when Mahomes rookie contract runs out. With TT's style of play I believe his career could be towards the end at that point. Regardless of what TT does for us the next four or five years we might need someone soon after. If Mahomes is a franchise QB at that point we will be regretting that selection. On the other hand if Peterson becomes our franchise QB it doesn't really matter what Mahomes does. I just can't see Peterson becoming that guy. I think his ceiling is being a good backup.

I think it's a little overstated. We and every other team who passed on Mahomes will survive if he does well and KC will survive if he doesn't become a star

[Scott7975]

 

One of those places was the NFL's Personnel Development Committee, which includes former Bills GM and Hall-of-Famer Bill Polian. Polian, fellow Hall-of-Famers Ron Wolf, Tony Dungy, John Madden and other committee members submitted a list of candidates that was distributed to all of the owners of teams searching for a new coach. McDermott's name jumped out at the Pegulas and they promptly made him the first of four candidates they would interview.

It was notable that, the day before the "formal" interview that would include Whaley and former director of player personnel Jim Monos, the Pegulas invited McDermott to join them for dinner on their yacht in Boca Raton, Fla.

He had the Pegulas at "hello." He impressed them so much, that as Kim drove McDermott to the airport after the next day's six-hour session, she was already telling him to have his wife (who had been invited to Boca Raton as well, but couldn't make the trip) call her for information about housing and other essentials in Western New York.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/01/vic-caruccis-bills-wake-call-new-gm-wont-change-structure/

 

How can someone's name alone "jump out" at the Pegulas? Then they finally meet the guy before the actual football interview is to take place with Whaley and they fall in love so hard they decided to hand the coaching job AND the GM job to Sean McDermott.

 

Perhaps because the Pegulas talk to people around the league and his name has come up before. Why are you so bent that Whaley was fired? At best the dude was average.

[jeffismagic]

 

Yet, people are still going to run around and claim how good this crop is just because 3 went in top 12, which was relatively expected given how many QB needy teams were in this draft. It was hard to predict who, where and when given the great divide on this class where none of the QB's really established themselves as a must have guy or the clear pecking order of the top 4 guys. At one point Kizer was considered the guy likely to go first, and went last out of the top 4.

 

Jeffismagic wants to validate Mahomes as the next great thing before putting his cleats on just because Chiefs traded up for him and will use any piece of news he can to sell that agenda. The truth is, by almost all accounts, the Bears and the Chiefs are looked at having bad overall drafts. NONE of that means squat of course, all that will matter 3 years from now is what happens on the field of course.

 

Main reason the Chiefs are getting killed on this isn't even as much about Mahomes, but rather the fact they have a roster that contended for a SB birth this past year and could contend the next 2 seasons. But instead of using this talented and deep draft to try and get over the hump, they just used a first and a 3rd this year on a player who wont contribute likely for at least a year or two (depending how long he sits behind Smith) and next years first as well.

 

So the Chiefs, who lost Poe, could have reloaded with someone like Allen or another stud and still added another great prospect in the 3rd to help propel them further, but instead took a guy who wont likely play for this team for at least 1 to 2 years nor help them push for a SB in the near term. And they spent next years first to do so as well.

 

In the NFL you only have small windows to make the big dance. With FA and the high frequency of injuries with bigger and faster players, windows of opportunities don't typically last long. Which is another reason the Pats are a modern day marvel based how long they have fielded a dominant team, but its hard and rare to do so. The Chiefs basically chose to not try and take that next step now in hopes this pick proves to be something 3 to 5 years from now (he sits 1 to 2 years, then still needs time to play a year or two to start to reach his potential). They better be right, otherwise they will quickly go to the bottom of the AFC and this will go down as a terrible franchise turning trade of what was a strong team.

 

Wow, you really don't get it do you? QB's like Alex Smith and Tyrod Taylor don't win you Superbowls. Andy Reid got the QB he thought could win the big one! That's a lesson that Bills fans like you never learn. Top end QB play is critical. Sean The Wrestler said the same thing. Maybe if Sean hires a real QB scout and doesn't do the QB evaluations on his own he can get a QB like that too.

Edited May 2, 2017 by jeffismagic

[GunnerBill]

 

At one point Kizer was considered the guy likely to go first, and went last out of the top 4.

 

Not this again? I asked you to prove this in January and February and you weren't able. Other than Walterfootball (who is clueless) nobody thought Kizer was going to be the first Quarterback picked.

 

 

Jeffismagic wants to validate Mahomes as the next great thing before putting his cleats on just because Chiefs traded up for him and will use any piece of news he can to sell that agenda.

 

Selling agendas? You are doubling down on your bad Quarterback class narrative. This class was compared to 2011 above (I personally believe it to be better) but had it been compared to 2011 in January or Feb - ie. 1 franchise guy and a load of guys that don't pan out I could have accepted that as a reasonable belief. IT wasn't compared to 2011 in Jan and Feb it was compared to 2013. That was nonsense, is nonsense and will always be nonsense.

 

 

Main reason the Chiefs are getting killed on this isn't even as much about Mahomes, but rather the fact they have a roster that contended for a SB birth this past year and could contend the next 2 seasons. But instead of using this talented and deep draft to try and get over the hump, they just used a first and a 3rd this year on a player who wont contribute likely for at least a year or two (depending how long he sits behind Smith) and next years first as well.

 

So the Chiefs, who lost Poe, could have reloaded with someone like Allen or another stud and still added another great prospect in the 3rd to help propel them further, but instead took a guy who wont likely play for this team for at least 1 to 2 years nor help them push for a SB in the near term. And they spent next years first to do so as well.

 

In the NFL you only have small windows to make the big dance. With FA and the high frequency of injuries with bigger and faster players, windows of opportunities don't typically last long. Which is another reason the Pats are a modern day marvel based how long they have fielded a dominant team, but its hard and rare to do so. The Chiefs basically chose to not try and take that next step now in hopes this pick proves to be something 3 to 5 years from now (he sits 1 to 2 years, then still needs time to play a year or two to start to reach his potential). They better be right, otherwise they will quickly go to the bottom of the AFC and this will go down as a terrible franchise turning trade of what was a strong team.

 

The Chiefs do not have a window. You can't win a Superbowl with Alex Smith. Period. They have no window. They lost in the playoffs last year to a team that didn't score a touchdown. Just say that back to yourself..... they lost to a team that did not score a touchdown. They are the Bills of the last two years with a better defense. The people like yourself advocating we ride Tyrod and stock the D want us to be the Chiefs. I would take a couple of years of being the Chiefs, hell it has been 17 years, but I don't want to aim for being the Chiefs. If the Chiefs want a window they better find a Quarterback capable of making the big plays when it is all on the line.

 

Now you know Alpha I have never been as big a Mahomes guy as the likes of Jeff. There is much on his tape that concerns me. However, the people criticising the Chiefs for this move need to get with the modern NFL. The Quarterbacks who have represented the AFC in the Superbowl since 2002 read like this - Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger and (on 1 occasion) Joe Flacco (a guy with a big arm who is good in the clutch). The Chiefs made their move to try and get a Quarterbacks capable of being in that rarefied company. Andy Reid and John Dorsey are smart guys (and by the way Reid has personnel control so your earlier summation that it might have been a Dorsey pick.... it couldn't have been - Reid has the final say) they know they are not contending with Smith. They are competing.... and winning 10 games a year... but they aren't contending. The idea of the Chiefs having a window is fiction. You want a window? Get a Quarterback. You need at worst a franchise QB at best an elite QB. You do not need a game manager.

Edited May 2, 2017 by GunnerBill

[oldmanfan]

I don't fault the Chiefs. But the data I am aware of suggests moving up for QBs in round 1 doesn't pan out very often. If their gamble fails they should not lose their jobs nor should the Bills people if he plays well down the road.

[Rico]

 

Maybe this has already been said, but Couch, McNabb and Smith also - in 1999

 

Good one, I forgot about them.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

This team won't have to live down any blunders so long as they pick a great QB soon, okay, in 2018. :-)

 

It's not like Mahomes was the only player who could have ever brought success to this team at the QB position, and I write this as somebody who was hoping that the Bills would take Mahomes. The draft made pretty good sense to me overall, Mahomes or not, and if the organization works out the way it does talent evaluation before 2018, that extra first rounder could be super awesome in terms of getting the QB I know we all desire. In no way am I hitching my Bills fandom wagon to whether or not Mahomes succeeds in KC.

I don't think anyone is hitching their fandom to Mahomes success in KC. There is still no denying that it will be viewed as a major blunder if Mahomes goes on to win a Super Bowl. It's not about passing on him, it's about holding the spot he got drafted and trading it away. I'm not worried about it since I don't have faith in Mahomes. If we get our franchise QB Mahomes success won't matter either. If we don't get a franchise QB and Mahomes does great we won't live it down. We will all survive, but I don't think it's fair to pretend it wouldn't sting a bit.

[oldmanfan]

I don't think anyone is hitching their fandom to Mahomes success in KC. There is still no denying that it will be viewed as a major blunder if Mahomes goes on to win a Super Bowl. It's not about passing on him, it's about holding the spot he got drafted and trading it away. I'm not worried about it since I don't have faith in Mahomes. If we get our franchise QB Mahomes success won't matter either. If we don't get a franchise QB and Mahomes does great we won't live it down. We will all survive, but I don't think it's fair to pretend it wouldn't sting a bit.

I guess I don't equate not being able to live it down with it wouldn't sting a bit. Agree with the latter but not the former

[BringBackOrton]

Where they go doesn't really matter. In 2011 4 QB's went in the top 12. 1 is currently employed by an NFL team.

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm talking the caliber of prospect, not what their careers end up being.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I guess I don't equate not being able to live it down with it wouldn't sting a bit. Agree with the latter but not the former

IF we find a franchise QB it will all be moot. If we don't find a franchise QB than McDermott and the new GM will both be gone eventually. Imagine if Mahomes became a franchise QB. It would be a trade they wouldn't live down. That's why I chose those words. I decided to use softer words because I felt some people were talking as if it wouldn't even sting. We can all agree on that. In reality I believe there are people at OBD who wouldn't be able to live that trade down. It doesn't really matter to me though, I'm just stating the case that it would matter to other people. I'm confident that we are heading in the right direction, and that Mahomes won't be anything special. Edited May 3, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[oldmanfan]

IF we find a franchise QB it will all be moot. If we don't find a franchise QB than McDermott and the new GM will both be gone eventually. Imagine if Mahomes became a franchise QB. It would be a trade they wouldn't live down. That's why I chose those words. I decided to use softer words because I felt some people were talking as if it wouldn't even sting. We can all agree on that. In reality I believe there are people at OBD who wouldn't be able to live that trade down. It doesn't really matter to me though, I'm just stating the case that it would matter to other people. I'm confident that we are heading in the right direction, and that Mahomes won't be anything special.

I agree with your last point

[NoSaint]

Good one, I forgot about them.

So if it's one in a trillion odds, we REALLY shouldn't bank on it happening a third time in so many less than a trillion drafts

[QCity]

The Chiefs do not have a window. You can't win a Superbowl with Alex Smith. Period. They have no window. They lost in the playoffs last year to a team that didn't score a touchdown. Just say that back to yourself..... they lost to a team that did not score a touchdown. They are the Bills of the last two years with a better defense. The people like yourself advocating we ride Tyrod and stock the D want us to be the Chiefs. I would take a couple of years of being the Chiefs, hell it has been 17 years, but I don't want to aim for being the Chiefs.

 

That's always been my line of thinking. You don't build a team to get to the playoffs. You build a team to win the whole thing, and the playoffs become just a necessary hurdle on the way. Unfortunately this involves that pesky QB issue.

 

I can tell you one thing for certain, with two first round picks coming up, college football is going to be incredible to watch next year.

[TPS]

These teams know the failure rate of picking a QB high. What fans (still) underestimate is the value of a QB. You aren't winning a Superbowl without one in this era. No stat better illustrates that than this one -- 13 of the last 14 QBs representing the AFC in the big game were named Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger. Coaches and GM's know their jobs are on the line without one. Owners know that the $160M+ player payroll they are funding isn't ultimately going anywhere. Your ceiling becomes "playoff pretender," and you have to sell that to the fans every year. The "anything can happen in the playoffs" mantra is nothing more than "all you need is a dollar and a dream" nonsense, and I think most fans realize that.

 

If there's a guy there in the top 10 that has a ~25% chance of becoming your guy under center for the next decade, you pull the trigger.

a very good point. You can be the superior team in many ways and still lose because of the difference at QB. Ask Dallas.

[BuffaloHokie13]

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm talking the caliber of prospect, not what their careers end up being.

While we can't be sure yet which ones will come out, my point is that I believe that the group of Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Browning, Mayfield, Rudolph, and Falk will produce more successful NFL QBs than this year's group regardless of how many are taken in the top 12.